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1beleevr
Guest
]If you and the one other are offering a sacrifice together, and either he or you is a priest, then certainly, you are worshipping together.
Don’t need a priest to be able to worship our God! Still waiting!
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Don’t need a priest to be able to worship our God! Still waiting!
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PRmerger
Guest
I’m not sure what you mean. Do you think it’s wrong to call a man “teacher”?
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jmcrae
Guest
Even Abraham needed a priest - and God provided him with one. Check out Genesis 14:17-20.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
spreading false prophecy and teaching that God was a man and that man will be Gods is not good fruit.In one sense, you are correct. If you see rotten fruit it does not speak well of the tree.
However, would you agree that the Mormon church produces good fruit? The Mormons I know are God-fearing, giving, charitable, wonderful people. Doesn’t prove that their doctrine is correct though.
And, you really have a grave misunderstanding about what the CC teaches about apostolic succession…
and about papal infallibility. Again, it’s not the man that’s infallible, but his office. Thus, the pope can be a rotten piece of fruit, but in his office, when he teaches on faith and morals and defines or declares something, it’s infallible.
And you will never be able to prove any pope–no matter how rotten or immoral he was-- infallibly defined or declared something that was later found to be contrary to Scripture.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
I do not claim all Catholic teachings are false. He would lose his position of authority. I also do not claim that all Catholics are bad fruit. I just reject apostolic succession and dont trust Tradition more than Gods word.
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PRmerger
Guest
No, but we are agreed that their charity and love are good fruits, yes?
Do you see my point that just because someone bears good fruit–like being loving and charitable–does not make their faith a true one.
Similarly, just because there’s rotten fruit does not make the faith a false one. I am certain that every church has rotten fruit–shall we assume that no church then is true?
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PRmerger
Guest
Ok. But that’s different from saying that because there are bad popes the CC is not the true church.
Also, how can you reject Tradition–it was Sacred Tradition that provided you with the canon of Scripture! For there is no list in the Bible of what is inspired and what is not–t*hat *was determined by Sacred Tradtion.
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jpaul1953
Guest
libertarian,
Where did you find that info. Is that your biblical interpretation of Christ’s Church on earth.
This is quite different than what all bibles state. Have you ever read Revelation…about the individual congregations in the seven towns all part of the one true church… Hogwash to you I assume.
So now you want to liberate the congregates from the Evil of the CHURCH. One Truth One Church. Not 2-zillion congregates with 1-zillion truths Wow isn’t this liberating.
jpaul1953
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
Mathew 18-20 Where two or more are gathered in my name I will be there. wow I just thought of something. we dont even need to rely on the priesthood of all believers. We have the word of Our Lord that if we gather in His name that we have present the Great High Priest! thank you Jesus. it took a Catholic to teach me this! thanx
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
But The High Priest is there! So thats worship, right?If you and the one other are offering a sacrifice together, and either he or you is a priest, then certainly, you are worshipping together.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Again, the CC is not stating that God is not present in your services. We affirm and proclaim that Jesus is with you!Mathew 18-20 Where two or more are gathered in my name I will be there. wow I just thought of something. we dont even need to rely on the priesthood of all believers. We have the word of Our Lord that if we gather in His name that we have present the Great High Priest! thank you Jesus. it took a Catholic to teach me this! thanx
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jmcrae
Guest
It depends on what you are doing. Are you offering the Sacrifice of the Mass? This is Christian worship.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
I see your point PR and I dont take it lightly. its more the whole package that they bear good fruit and eliminate the bad fruit. This is hard to explain my thinking because I have already offended you while trying to discuses this before and I dont want to produce bad fruit either. When I got clean I really was open to going where ever God wants me(still am) I devoured the Bible, my new wife not yet a Christian complained to my mother that I went from doing nothing but getting high to nothing but studying my Bible. My mom told me I should slow down! I went to my friends and challenged them on their beliefs if I found scripture that seemed to contradict them. I was insufferable and a zealot, I may have hurt as many as an early believer than I did as a junky. I was prepared to go whatever church God lead me to. Maybe its that I only have a few working braincells left, but the faith I find in scripture the church I feel drawn to is not fancy, or complicated its a group of people who will drop what they are doing to meet each others needs, they are not wealthy yet they are generous. they Love God and are determined to fulfill the great commission. It is not the church you go to to see what you can get. Its a church you go to to see what you have to give. We have no outreach to the beautiful people. but we have a jail ministry and a recovery group that brings us all sorts of hurting people and we have the joy of watching God transform their lives through the power of His grace. Perhaps God knows that His children have different needs and personalities and will be comforted by His love in different environments. You are a valiant defender of your faith PR I enjoy learning from you. we may not agree on everything but you have my respect.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
hmm. can I get away with calling it “A” true church or a part of the true church. I know that wont please anyone Catholic or protestants.
I have have less problems with the church prior to the canon, I take issue with Roman supremacy. the counsel of Nicea lasted how long? how many bishops gathered and debated for how many hours? Why didnt the Roman Bishop just declare Arius to be in error and save everyone the time? I think this is more how things should be handled debate them try not to divide over them and let God deal with the herratics.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
Im not sure what all is involved in the mass it looks a whole lot fancier than our service but we take communion. we sing praises to the Lord and we have a sermon(in English).It depends on what you are doing. Are you offering the Sacrifice of the Mass? This is Christian worship.
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PRmerger
Guest
What you are describing, MRL, is the Catholic Church, in all her fullness and glory.
Go where the Truth is. Make your home there, MRL.
I ask that you not find a church that conforms to your interpretation of the truth, though, but conform your beliefs to the Truth.
Yet there is only One Faith, One Baptism, One Lord. If it really doesn’t matter whether Jesus was born of a Virgin, or whether He truly resurrected from the dead, or whether he is present body, blood, soul and divinity in the eucharist, or whether saints can pray for us in heaven…then we are in no better place than good Muslims, Hindus and other loving non-believers
Right back at cha, MRL!
I did not know that you were a former drug user. You have my great respect for coming from such a place and being where you are now. :bowdown:
I’m sure many would be moved to hear of your journey, should you care to share it.
God be with you on your journey, dear brother!
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1beleevr
Guest
]I’m not sure what you mean. Do you think it’s wrong to call a man “teacher”?
Not at all; in fact, as Christians, we are sometimes the teacher, and sometimes you are the student! This is because we who are more mature in our walk, can impart wisdom upon newer Christians, and then we learn from our pastors and even more mature Christians, you know, the Caleb types!
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1beleevr
Guest
]You can believe whatever you like - if you read the actual text, you see that it is being addressed to a whole community; not just to one person.
There is no connection between those two ideas. St. Paul is saying that he has given up his life to Christ - that he himself is as good as dead, because he has given his body to Christ, for His work - he has put aside all of his personal pleasures, etc. in perfect mortification of the body. I don’t know how you get from that, to “one on one worship.” That’s kind of like “one on one partying.” Guess what, if you are the only one at your party, it’s not really a party.
There are many things that we do for God. Worship (the gathering of the community to make a communal sacrifice) is only one of these many things. The things we do in His name and for His glory are called “good deeds.” (Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc.)
(Sigh!) It is interesting that you cannot read Revelations 3:20, and see how Jesus COULD be talking about standing at the "door of your heart, knocking and you can choose to accept Him(let Him in) or reject Him! Or read Galatians 2:20, and believe that Christ is in US, as Paul said that Christ lived in him! And yet you can read John 20:23, and James 5:16, and possibly even 1John 1:9, and interpret them to mean that one should go to a priest to confess their sins…h-m-m-m-m?
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1beleevr
Guest
]If you and the one other are offering a sacrifice together, and either he or you is a priest, then certainly, you are worshipping together.
W-R-O-N-G! The priest or the sacrifice is not necessary for worship
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1beleevr
Guest
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I did, thank you! And these verses were about Abram, who was BLESSED by Melchizadek after his victory in war! How does this apply to worship?
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