how do occult practices work?

[fakename]

it is said that stuff from harry potter to ouija boards can lead to demons etc. But I was wondering, how do they lead to demons -what is in their nature that leads to supernatural stuff.

Do they operate like sacraments or sacramentals do except they lead to evil? Also, if one knows how they work, it would be a lot easier to distinguish the truly dangerous practice and the not-dangerous practice and not be lead into superstition etc.

Also, a lot of exorcists have stated that harry potter leads to possessions yet, from my understanding, an occult practice has to be one where someone actually tries to make use of a power -but harry potter is a story not an incantation?

 

[Rascalking]

Do you really want to know this? Really?

Having an abnormal interest in them isn’t really that healthy.

 

[gaits]

Typically, the purpose of a ouija board is to attempt to communicate with the spirit world (i.e. ghosts, spirits, etc.). Whether you believe in ghosts or not, I can see how playing around in an attempt to communicate with them could lead to very dark things.

Harry Potter on the other hand is a fantasy story. Just like any other fantasy story, one must be able to distinguish reality from fantasy. I have read the entire series and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but never once did I wonder whether magic spells might actually work, or whether Voldemort might appear out of nowhere if I said the name out loud. To me it is no different than watching a movie about fairies or goblins or what have you. In fact, the series does have some good messages…such as loyalty, respect for others, choosing do to right when doing wrong seems more appealing, etc. Reading a story like Harry Potter can only lead to evil if the person reading is deceived into thinking it is real.

 

[Garyjohn2]

depends on the occult practice…

 

[mdrummer5]

Do you really want to know this? Really?

Having an abnormal interest in them isn’t really that healthy.

I think what the OP is asking is how that conclusion is made as opposed to wanting to actually pursue demonology.

Frankly I don’t think the HP books do. I just finished the series a few weeks ago. Since then I’ve been to my first Christmas Mass and decided to convert to Catholicism… hardly a path to demons.

Quija boards on the other hand I will not touch literally or figuratively.

Edit:

Reading a story like Harry Potter can only lead to evil if the person reading is deceived into thinking it is real.

Well said and to add to that I wouldn’t call it being “deceived” as it implies that it was the author’s intent. I would say if they perceive that it’s real which is a matter of poor thinking on the part of the reader.

 

[beth40n2]

Many things open us up to bad spirits. If a book we read such as Harry Potter or vampire books get us to thinking continually on those subjects than Satan has succeeded. If you read the book like any other book and move on it is different. We need to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus.

There is a group “Spiritual Warefare” that you can read through and ask more question. forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=721

 

[Barbkw]

catholicnewsagency.com/news/priests-will-soon-be-inundated-with-exorcism-requests-asserts-author/

Exorcist Fr. Euteneuer and past director of HLI Human Life International wrote a book on possession titled “Exorcism and the Church Militant,”

"“One of the purposes of the book,” he noted, “was to take back the proper understanding of exorcism by placing it squarely in the context of the Church’s pastoral ministry.”

In regard to the need for this pastoral ministry, Fr. Euteneuer asserted that “priests are going to be inundated in the next decade or so at least with requests for exorcism because I can already see it happening now where the younger generations especially have been affected by a lot of hard and soft occultism.”

“Soft forms of occultism are like Wicca and New Age,” he explained, adding that “Harry Potter contributes to that with over 400 million books being sold.” The popular book series, he claimed, has helped educate “younger generations in the language and the symbolism of the occult.”

Although many young people have treated the books merely as “entertainment,” he observed, “it actually leads them more deeply into occult practices.”

“All of this is inevitably, with the lack of faith, going to lead to serious spiritual problems for younger people and those problems are going to be laid at the foot of the Church.”

 

[Barbkw]

catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=37447

"WASHINGTON, DC (Inside Catholic) - Having just read Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuers’s new book, Exorcism and the Church Militant, one of the first things I asked him was whether he was afraid of demons. I shivered more than once reading through its short chapters, arranged as basic questions about the devil, demons, possession, and the rite of exorcism.

“Not at all,” Father answered with a smile. “God has given me the grace to remain unafraid.”

When I expressed my surprise, he explained, “Demons are basically handcuffed, and they know it.”

Father Euteneuer does not speak as a theorist. Since 2003 he’s had extensive experience ministering to those possessed by demons. His introduction to the demonic world happened when a family asked him for help for one of their members, and he eventually asked for permission to perform the rite of exorcism. He has been doing them ever since.

Exorcism and the Church Militant is intended, in part, as a warning to parents who allow their children to be desensitized to “the dark world” by books and films like the Harry Potter series and the vampire books of Stephanie Meyer. Father Euteneuer told me possession is almost always a result of someone getting involved in some sort of occult practices, such as witchcraft, Wicca, tarot cards, and Ouiji boards.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.

Father Euteneuer emphasized this point, “Demons do not discriminate between intentions – no matter how innocent – and children lose the clear distinction between good and evil.”

What makes the occult so dangerous is the fact that it is based upon something real – the preternatural world of fallen angels, headed by Lucifer himself. Below him are the “choirs” of devils and demons who are a reverse mirror, in their fallen state, of the hierarchy of angels.

Yet, as Father Euteneuer made clear, this entire dark spiritual world “cannot operate without permission from human beings.” He pointed out that the widely-seen film, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, based upon the actual case of Anneliese Michel, makes it seem like a possession can occur against a person’s will.

Demons play by the rules, as it were. They can only enter a person when invited, and they will leave when subjected through the rite of exorcism to the authority of the Church. “All demons understand is authority,” according to Father Euteneuer. He told me of a time he was with someone who was possessed – not intending to do an exorcism because permission had not yet been given – and the demon spoke to him saying, “The Church is not here.”

Father Euteneuer reminded me that as fallen angels, demons are smarter than any human being. “The darkest demon is smarter than I am,” he said. An exorcist must remain aware of the demon’s ability to know everything about the person they are possessing, including family members, and those who may enter the room to cast them out.

One demon attempted to negotiate with Father Euteneuer, offering to help him with his Latin if he would let him stay put.

That story prompted me to ask if demons had a sense of humor. “No,” Euteneuer replied. “The demon was only trying to resist being cast out. They know what an exorcism is, what is going to happen to them.”

Possession usually involves more than one demon. Father Euteneuer explained that when “one demon gets in it will help to create more invitations to other demons.” The more powerful ones have biblical names, and he often runs into demons with the same name, as if they had a kind of demonic family name.

The possession of an individual person is a perverse imitation of the Incarnation. “They know they’ve lost the war in heaven, now they’ve come to earth and are doing all they can to exert their power and be an obstacle to heaven.” That’s why demons experience some form of pain when they are exorcised – Father Euteneuer said demons will often complain that “It burns.” They have been deprived of the satisfaction of entering a body in imitation of the Word made flesh.

By the end of my interview with Father Euteneuer, I realized my initial question about being frightened of demons had betrayed my misunderstanding of the limits of demonic power. Exorcism and the Church Militant is a book that should provide guidance to many for years to come, especially for parents who need a reminder that the occult is not innocent entertainment."

 

[twoangels]

I think a good source for the answer to your questions can be found in this Vatican document about the “New Age” movement: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

It is useful to distinguish between esotericism, a search for knowledge, and magic, or the occult: the latter is a means of obtaining power. Some groups are both esoteric and occult. At the centre of occultism is a will to power based on the dream of becoming divine.

When I was in high school, I knew a lot of people who started getting into the New Age movement or involved in Wicca. I had been raised to avoid that stuff, but I had also been raised to be very accepting of people. As such, I refused to be involved and would exclude myself from situations where they wanted to involve me in occultish activities, but at the same time, I had no problem hanging out with in other circumstances. Granted, eventually these friendships just grew apart, but there was never any resentment between myself and them like there were with them and other Christians in my highschool.

Moreover, at the time I was taught that the sin of occultism was no different than the sin of superstition. I certainly didn’t fear becoming possessed by demons. What I feared was offended God through superstitution or committing forms of idoltry.

But what I do know of Wicca and what I do know of the New Age movement is that their involvement in the occult is very much like the Vatican document says. They’re in the search for empowering themselves with divine power. This leads to a sort of self idoltry which would distract them from worship of God and the needed humility we are called to have.

Getting involved in any occultish practice does not necessarily mean that demons are going to storm your way and actually get involved with any of the practices you are doing. That said, the even seeking such powers is sinful. I would say overall that if a person does find any authentic powers in their practices, than those powers would be stemming from demonic influences. And ultimately I would say those demonic influences are to encourage the individual in their idoltry and to keep them delving deeper into their sins. If people are looking for extraordinary expressions of the supernatural in their world, demons are willing to show it to them as a way of misguiding them away from God.

I think though too it still needs to be noted that superstition within Catholicism is dangerous as well. Many well meaning Catholics become overly obsessed with apparations or with the “power” of relics. Some get sucked into following groups not in line with the Church and possibly problematic because so and so supposedly is a mystic or sees visions of Mary.

A friend of mine got involved with a couple that tended to recruit people into their circle after daily Mass. I had little idea of the extent to what was going on till it got my friend in trouble. The couple were self proclaimed exorcists. The man believed himself to have been spiritually ordained with oil from Heaven as a priest. They’d frequently invite people over to their house and the woman would begin accusing people of sins she thought God or Mary were telling her people had committed. They then gave instructions to my friend that were very dangerous. They told my friend that a necessary medication she was on was possessed by demons and that she could not trust the scientific community …because they were minions of Satan. So she lied to her therapist and friends and took herself off all her medications till she ended up in the hospital.

Unforunately, my friend has been in constant search for extraordinary spiritual activity. As such, she’s gone through periods of obsessing about Catholic visionaries, incorrupt bodies to later getting upset about the Church’s rules on morality that she started going more of the New age route and started consulting psychics.

Honestly, I really don’t see a whole lot of difference between those who are attracted to the occult and those who see the devil under every corner or who get overly obsessed with apparations and whether the last secret of Fatama was actually revealed or not. Moreover, I’d say this whole thing goes into my general distaste for the charismatic renewal…especially when every symptom of demon possession listed in “An exorcist tells his story” is also pretty much exact descriptions of things that go on within the charistmatic renewal. Again, I’m not saying that there aren’t true charismatic gifts nor am I denying that demonic possession exists.

But I think the best advise I got was from a Marionite priest who had actually assisted in exorcisms. If you live a sacramental life, receive the sacraments on a regular basis, you really don’t have to fear becoming demonically possessed. Most demonic activity isn’t of the extraordinary nature. Moreover, demons can’t force us to sin. A far greater evil is actually accomplished through ordinary demonic activity that leads a man or woman to choose mortal sin than if a demon possesses their body. The possession is just a torment. A demon can’t force you into sin for sin involves an act of the will. As such, fear sin more than you fear becoming possessed.

 

[kbwall]

The magic in Harry Potter is not even remotely close to real world occultism. That’s not my opinion, it’s a fact. I doubt anybody who claims otherwise has even read or seen Harry Potter, and is only going by hearsay. There are no pentagrams in Harry Potter, they don’t use candles for ceremony, no ouiji boards, nothing. All they do is wave a stick around and utter gibberish. It’s nothing more than pure fantasy. It’s not even an issue of being careful when you read/watch it, since that stuff isn’t remotely close to the real thing. If you read/watch Harry Potter and come to the conclusion that it’s all real, then you’re not slipping into the occult, you’re just an idiot (or something is wrong with you on a psychological level, in which case, you should get that checked out). The only thing they get remotely right is some of the deivination, but even that is just fantasy (and in the story, it doesn’t even seem to work).

Stuff like ouija boards though, those are blatantly true occult. They work by invoking spirits from the other world. Pretty clear how this could lead to demons, since you’re openly asking for their help. I’ve heard other fortune telling devices, such as tarot cards and the like can also lead to problems. I don’t know about demons, but they’re definitely a sin.

If you want to know occult works; I’ll explain what I know. Most who use witchcraft belong to a Pagan religion. There are many, but the most common are Wicca and New Age groups. They are just another religion, nothing more, nothing less. They’re a diverse group and worship a wide variety of deities and spirits. Spells are not the special effects powers seen in fantasy, even with this stuff, you can’t violate the laws of physics as seen on TV. The best explanation I can think of is that their spells are similar to prayers. They may have a spell for money, for healing a friend, etc. They also have rituals for glorifying their deities. It leads to evil because it’s a blatant violation of the first commandment.

Some stereotypes are true, some are not, but most are partially true. For example, the pentagram really is a symbol used by the Wiccan religion, but the star is for the five elements (earth, water, fire, air, and spirit). Satanists use the upside down Pentagram.

 

[Ceil-1]

Do they operate like sacraments or sacramentals do except they lead to evil? Also, if one knows how they work, it would be a lot easier to distinguish the truly dangerous practice and the not-dangerous practice and not be lead into superstition etc.

I think that is a very astute observation; I believe it is an accurate description. The opposite of Divine Grace is conferred.

Harry Potter may spark an interest in the occult. Others, I have noticed, are confirmed in their faith. A good will triumph over evil thing. Vampires are an obsession with death. It’s hard enough without confusion and unhealthy attachments to dark things.

 

[promethius]

it is said that stuff from harry potter to ouija boards can lead to demons etc. But I was wondering, how do they lead to demons -what is in their nature that leads to supernatural stuff.

The actually occult works by promising power beyond what humans are capable of themselves and that power comes from a source other than God. Whether or not a particular power ACTUALLY exists is irrelevant, so long as one is seeking power from a source other than God.

For example, one case of an exorcism deals with a man who believed he had discovered the ability to do astral projection (see things by travelling with his mind outside of his body). In reality, his seeking such power beyond the will of God led him to accept demonic influence, and the demon was the one showing him visions from around the world. His mind never actually travelled anywhere because astral projection is NOT something that humans are capable of.

For this reason, ANY practice which seeks to obtain information or abilities outside of the Charisms of the Holy Spirit are anathema to us. This is because there are only two sources of supernatural power: God’s grace, and evil. To dabble outside of God’s grace to derive abilities is to directly seek and invite evil into one’s soul.

Do they operate like sacraments or sacramentals do except they lead to evil?

Evil has no form of grace of its own, so it has no sacraments or sacramentals. It is an operand of the will… the will seeks that which is outside of God’s grace to derive supernatural ability, and evil slips in through this invitation to offer what is desired… at a great cost.

A ouji board and other tools of the occult are not sacramentals. Touching them will impart nothing to you… provided you are not touching them with the intent to use them and thus opening yourself to supernatural power other than from God.

Also, if one knows how they work, it would be a lot easier to distinguish the truly dangerous practice and the not-dangerous practice and not be lead into superstition etc.

Avoid anything which promotes the idea that one can divine information or abilities outside of God’s grace, and avoid anything which posits a natural law which is separate from and superior to God, or which posits that no God is necessary in either jurisdiction over the world or defeating evil.

Also, a lot of exorcists have stated that harry potter leads to possessions yet, from my understanding, an occult practice has to be one where someone actually tries to make use of a power -but harry potter is a story not an incantation?

Again, demonic influence is not a product of sacraments or sacramentals, but rather is a response to invitation or openings in the human will. As such, something does not have to originate with the occult in order to open one’s mind to assault by Satan.

Things like Harry Potter, or any story that glamorizes the idea that human love, mysterious or human power, or natural law can be used to defeat evil WITHOUT the need for the Divine Grace of God are ideas which open gateways for influence that God is unnecessary… a common entrance that Demons use in posessions. Remember, you don’t have to practice the occult in order to become possessed, you can become possessed by doctrinally coming to believe heretical ideas that are contrary to the presence of saving grace.

Understanding that these are false moral concepts and not being prone to fall before these ideas makes Harry Potter a harmless fiction to read. NOT being properly catechized or falling to these ideas is what opens one to danger.

 

[edwest2]

Unfortunately, bookstores do carry New Age titles. Some have bright and inviting covers. Of course, none are going to say they are harmful or potentially harmful. I suggest staying away from:

Crystals - said to have power to heal or do other things.

Tarot cards or anything that claims to tell the future, or secrets.

Ouija boards - since the goal is to contact spirits.

Books that claim to contain real spells or magic.

Books that claim to offer a quick and easy way to answer your questions, solve your problems and give you what you want through the use of “spirit guides” or contact with “ascended masters” or the writings of some great sage or individual.

There are groups where people believe they can make contact with something that is not God but who can help them in some way, or that worship the “earth mother” or even involve pagan religious practices.

Be wary. Be vigilant.

God bless,
Ed

 

[mgreen77]

For example, one case of an exorcism deals with a man who believed he had discovered the ability to do astral projection (see things by travelling with his mind outside of his body). In reality, his seeking such power beyond the will of God led him to accept demonic influence…

Might demons do such a thing even to trick young children, say as young as 3 or 4?

 

[promethius]

Might demons do such a thing even to trick young children, say as young as 3 or 4?

Eh, children are a special case, because they are too young to have reached an age of moral culpability. While the formative years can lead to beliefs that will LATER lead to possession or demonic influence, I have never heard of a case where a child the age of 3 or 4 became possessed.

The problem is that heretical ideas in and of themselves are a tool of evil, and when children are exposed to these and NOT given the proper parenting to teach them why they are errors and why to avoid them and the actions associated with them, these ideas become foundational constructs of later life… and when the child reaches the age of moral culpability, they’re a prime target for ongoing expansion into heresy and sin, regardless of whether or not a demon ever targets them for possession

(we still don’t know why certain people and not others become possessed. There is a strategy to it since evil is malevolent and willful, but we are not aware of what that exact strategy is… why does a rapist NOT become possessed while a person who believes nature is god does? Why does a person who does astral projection but is catholic become possessed when a person who is catholic but never goes to mass and thinks the church is wrong does not? At some root level, grace, will, and consent lend to this, but it is still a rather mysterious field)

 

[mgreen77]

Eh, children are a special case, because they are too young to have reached an age of moral culpability. While the formative years can lead to beliefs that will LATER lead to possession or demonic influence, I have never heard of a case where a child the age of 3 or 4 became possessed.

Well, if not outright possession, would demons or satan trick a child in the same way the person who believed in “astral projection” was tricked into believing it was real?

What if those sorts of things just happened to someone, a child especially, without the child “trying” to do anything?

I guess I’m asking if satan or demons would try to trick a very young child into believing in something like astral projection by essentially “inflicting” it on her without her asking or trying for it? Or is it the greed for power, and the actual trying to conjure it that opens the doorway?

 

[Trishie]

catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/occult

 

[promethius]

Well, if not outright possession, would demons or satan trick a child in the same way the person who believed in “astral projection” was tricked into believing it was real?

What if those sorts of things just happened to someone, a child especially, without the child “trying” to do anything?

I guess I’m asking if satan or demons would try to trick a very young child into believing in something like astral projection by essentially “inflicting” it on her without her asking or trying for it? Or is it the greed for power, and the actual trying to conjure it that opens the doorway?

Remember what I said in my first post: possession and the occult are not sacraments or sacramentals. They are operands of the will. A demon cannot project such a trick on someone (anyone) without the express permission or invitation of that person’s will. A child does not have moral culpability as they are not of reason yet, so they are specifically unable to invite a demon in such a way.

In other words, no. A child might have an active imagination, but a demon would not be able to FORCE a trick like a vision from “astral projection” onto a child any more than a demon could force such a vision on someone who was in a state of grace and not seeking such influence. Grace protects these from the assaults of demons

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

it is said that stuff from harry potter to ouija boards can lead to demons etc. But I was wondering, how do they lead to demons -what is in their nature that leads to supernatural stuff.

There are a lot of misunderstandings surrounding poor little Harry Potter. JK Rowling is a Christian, of the Church of Scotland variety, and her books have turned out to be Christian allegories along the lines of (though perhaps not as brilliant or obvious as) Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia.

A ouija board is quite different. If one were to think of it as a spiritual technology, it would be analogous to a broken telephone–it has no number pad, but dials a random number every time you pick up the receiver or turn it on…and has the disconcerting knack of bringing the being you’ve just gotten in touch with into your living room, or wherever you happen to be. How does it work? There are some theories from some occultists that suggest that the planchette is roughly equivalent to the old triangle of art used to evoke a spirit to visible appearance. A virtue (if it can be so called) of the full occult ceremonial is that what is evoked is usually consciously evoked–that is, a spirit is chosen by the operator and evoked. Moreover, the ceremonial ensures, according to the magicians, some form of protection against the spirit, and/or involves a binding of the spirit. Ouija boards afford no such protection or binding. Even from an occult perspective, a ouija board in just anyone’s hands is a dangerous thing.

But how, really, does it work? Open your front door and someone or something may come wandering into your home. You never know. Open your front door and demand that something come in, there’s a better chance something will. Open your front door, demand something come inside, and send a bunch of letters to a number of random folks inviting them personally in, and you’ll probably have a few visitors. Open your door, make your demand, and send your letters all in the name of an Authority of some sort, and chances are more of your guests will show up. The principles are similar with evocation. We live in a symbolic universe (a better word would be sacramental). That is, the universe manifests and points to higher realities that transcend, infuse, and complete it. Use of a ouija board or the various techniques of ceremonial occultism involves opening doors and issuing summonses on a symbolic level, which is to say, on a level which speaks the language of the universe. And one of the laws of our symbolic universe is that the subtle informs the gross. The domain of these symbolic manipulations is in fact the soul–the changes which these manipulations accomplish are spiritual. They are not less real for being such. In fact, they are very real.

Also, if one knows how they work, it would be a lot easier to distinguish the truly dangerous practice and the not-dangerous practice and not be lead into superstition etc.

There are, of course, various ways of effecting spiritual change. Prayer is one such. But even prayer may become an act of black magic. How? If it does not seek the will and the glory of God, if it attempts to force God (as if such a thing could be!) to accomplish our will. What makes magic “black” is that it is focused on the aggrandizement of the ego, of the self. Does not Our Lord tell us that we must lose ourselves in order to find ourselves, that we must abandon the Old Man in order to truly find ourselves in Christ? Is not sin any act which puts our own self/will before God’s? Is not service of the self enslavement to the will to power? Enslavement to sin? Is not the service of the self, then, basely diabolical? This is true black magic, and it does not require a magical ceremonial and evocation of spirits in order to make it deadly. There is black magic in every act of self-aggrandizement: ecological irresponsibility, scientific negligence, vanity, pride… Let us therefore submit ourselves to the will of God! Let our very lives be our prayer that God’s will be done!

In this way, we can come to recognize what can be called “sacred magic” which is no more, and certainly no less(!), than cooperating with and submitting ourselves to the will of God. How else are miracles accomplished? This is true prayer! This is the ritual and ceremonial of the church. These are the formulae, the prayers, the holy words of Scripture and holy symbols and sacramentals of our tradition. We do not seek to coerce spirits to do our bidding either on our own authority or by manipulating (and thereby taking in vain) and attempting to usurp the authority the holy names of God, regardless of whether these spirits be of the celestial or infernal hierarchies. The way of prayer is the way of open-ness to the will of God. What greater magic can there be than to be the instrument of God’s love in the world?

Hope this helps!

Under the Mercy!
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

 

[promethius]

A virtue (if it can be so called) of the full occult ceremonial is that what is evoked is usually consciously evoked–that is, a spirit is chosen by the operator and evoked. Moreover, the ceremonial ensures, according to the magicians, some form of protection against the spirit, and/or involves a binding of the spirit.

This being from the perspective of the occultist, who wants to believe (desperately needs to believe?) that what they are doing is both controlled and safe. The church teaches no such thing. Humans do not have the innate power to bind spirits, and, as you say, attempting to force God to bind a spirit is requesting that God participate in an illicit act (occult practices).

We do not know why some people can engage in the occult with only minor effect and not full possession, but we do know this: humans cannot bind demons by themselves, and humans attempting to summon demons in a controlled way do not have the mandate of God to do so and therefore are not given authority to bind such a spirit in place. Perhaps it is invincible ignorance which protects some, or perhaps some people’s guardian angels protect them from the total impact of demonic influence despite their foolishness, but of one thing we can be certain: there is no safe way to summon a spirit at our bidding.