How Do Orthodox Christians View the Pope?

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Dear brother Ubenedictus,
Why will the pope be interested in suppressing the eastern liturgies? Are those litugies not a cultural and spiritual heritage of those who practice them? And removing bishops, i think there are laws guiding that, so why will he want to remove bishops(i may not understand this point, i never heard or see it)?
Lastly, i will ask where should we draw the line? My bishop only complys with teaching and discipline and lastly matters reserved to the holy see. Will yon call this micro managing.
Ubenedictus
Sadly, there are actually Latin Catholics (as well as members of SSPX) here on CAF who express the viewpoints that brother ConstantineTG has enumerated.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Dear brother Don,
The Latins teach that the visible head of the Church is the Pope, the successor to St. Peter, who was appointed to that sacred position by the Lord Himself with the words, ‘Thou art Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church’ (Matt. 16:18).
Well, that and the ones in John 21. I would personally add Matt 24 when Christ, in response to questions from his disciples of the things to come, informed them “who is the wise servant whom the Master will set over his household to feed it.
The Pope is, then, ‘the Bishop of the Catholic Church’
False. Can your source (not saying you agree with the source) offer any magisterial Catholic Church document to back up this claim?
her teacher, the vicar (agent, deputy) of Christ on earth.
All bishops are teachers and vicars of Christ, according to Catholic teaching. Has your source ever read the CCC?
He is the interpreter of the Christian Tradition.
If you mean unilaterally or by himself, that would be false.
When he speaks for the whole Church (ex cathedra), the Holy Spirit does not permit him to err. He is, therefore, infallible on matters of morals and doctrine.
True.
Other bishops are his lieutenants.
False.
He is the symbol of the episcopate’s unity.
Somewhat true. He is not only the symbol, but it is the responsibility of his primatial office to ensure it.
The Orthodox Church teaches that all bishops are equal.
The Catholic Church teaches all bishops are equal ontologically, but unequal by jurisdiction and by honor.
To be sure, there are different ranks of bishops (patriarch, archbishop, metropolitan, bishop); nevertheless, a bishop is a bishop. Such differences apply to the administration of a church or group of churches, not to the nature of the bishop.
This is not a difference between the CC and OC.
According to Latin ecclesiology, each local parish is part of the universal or whole Church. The totality of Catholic parishes form the Body of Christ on earth. This visible Body has a visible head, the Pope.
Latin ecclesiology also teaches that each body of Christians with a bishop is a true Church.
This idea of the Church implies that the local parish has two heads: the Pope and the local bishop.
False. Catholic ecclesiology states that any diocese can only have one PROPER ordinary.
But a body with two visible heads is a monster.
True, which is why such is not the case in the Catholic Church.
Also, the local bishop seems stripped of his apostolic authority if the Pope may contradict his orders.
Our canons state that for the good of his flock, a local bishop can dispense even from universal laws or the directives of a Pope.
Indeed, he cannot become a bishop unless the Pope allows it.
Absolutely false. The papal assent is required for the bishop to EXERCISE his functions within the Catholic Church. But it is the action of the local sui juris head bishop in collegial fashion that gives a bishop the power of orders (i.e., makes him a bishop).
Orthodoxy teaches that every bishop, ‘the living icon of Christ’, and his flock constitute the Church in a certain place; or, as St. Ignatius the God-bearer says, the Church of Christ is in the bishop, his priests and deacons, with the people, surrounding the Eucharist in the true faith. All bishops and their flocks so constituted, together composing the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
In other words, there can be no Church without a bishop, no bishop without the Eucharist, and no bishop or Eucharist without the true faith, the Apostolic Faith, ‘the faith once delivered to the saints.’ (Jude 3) ‘The Church is in the bishop and the bishop in the Church’, wrote St. Cyprian of Carthage.
Also, there can be no Church without the Eucharist, the Sacrament of unity, because the Church is formed through it. The Body and Blood of Christ unites the Faithful to God: This fellowship or koinonia is the whole purpose of Christianity. At the same time, there can be no Eucharist — and no other Mysteries — without a bishop who teaches the true faith to the baptized.
No difference here with Catholic ecclesiology,🤷

Blessings,
Marduk
 
I think the Catholics here have not expressed themselves very well. I believe they should be agreeing with you that having the keys refers to binding and loosing. What they should be proposing is that the act of binding and loosing refers not only to the forgiveness of sins, but also to the government of the Church (to propose or relax the rules of the Church).
In the strict sense binding and loose is a rabbinic language and it does not involve proposing rules. It does include excominication and in a christain sense sin. The key is the symbol of government and as explained by some fathers, it was recieved and shared to others by peter, so they posses ‘govermental powers’ and as they explain the primacy of peter remains a mark of catholic unity (where peter is there is the catholic church).
There are many. There are several that say that the other Apostles possess or hold the keys, but only St. Peter received them. Pope St. Leo explained that the other Apostles (and by virtue of Apostolic Succession, all the bishops) also POSSESS the keys because Peter SHARED the keys with them, as the bishop of Rome who is the successor of Peter also SHARES them with his brother bishops.
Blessings,
Marduk
I think this express well that which i didnt do well, thanks.
Ubenedictus
 
Dear brother Ubenedictus,

Sadly, there are actually Latin Catholics (as well as members of SSPX) here on CAF who express the viewpoints that brother ConstantineTG has enumerated.

Blessings,
Marduk
suppressing luturgies and micromanaging? I dont get it especially with the SSPX( who are choosing if or not they want to unite with the church), well maybe i’ll understand it some day.
Ubenedictus
 
Far be it from me to censure the successors of the apostles, who with holy words consecrate the body of Christ, and who make us Christians. Having the keys of the kingdom of heaven, they judge men to some extent before the day of judgment, and guard the chastity of the bride of Christ. But, as I have before hinted, the case of monks is different from that of the clergy. The clergy feed Christ’s sheep; I as a monk am fed by them."
St. Jerome****
 
Dear brother Mickey,
Far be it from me to censure the successors of the apostles, who with holy words consecrate the body of Christ, and who make us Christians. Having the keys of the kingdom of heaven, they judge men to some extent before the day of judgment, and guard the chastity of the bride of Christ. But, as I have before hinted, the case of monks is different from that of the clergy. The clergy feed Christ’s sheep; I as a monk am fed by them."
St. Jerome****
Thank you for the quote.

I am reminded of another by St. John Chrysostom who stated that St. John was the holder of the keys as well, but this same Chrysostom in other places (and many more places, at that) simultaneously asserts that it was St. Peter to whom the Lord had GIVEN the keys. That is perfectly consonant with the explanation of Pope St. Leo that the other Apostles possessed (or “had”) the keys because St. Peter, to whom they were GIVEN directly and who RECEIVED them directly from the Lord, shared them with the other Apostles.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
I am reminded of another by St. John Chrysostom who stated that St. John was the holder of the keys as well
Indeed. All the Apostles are the holder of the keys. Thank you for helping to make my point. 👍
 
Indeed. All the Apostles are the holder of the keys. Thank you for helping to make my point. 👍
It’s what the Catholic Church teaches.👍 That, and the biblical and patristic truth that it was St. Peter ALONE who RECEIVED the keys directly from our Lord (who thence shared it with the other Apostles, of course).👍

Blessings,
Marduk
 
I think the title is pretty self-expanitory of my question. As a former Baptist, I was heavily convinced of the primacy of the Pope through Scriptural evidence for the primacy of St. Peter. I noticed the papacy seems to have ended for Orthodox Christians in 1045 AD, and the issue happened to be over the residency of the Pope. So my basic question is this: How do Orthodox Christians view the Pope?
Let’s not forget the Latinas sacked Constantinople over this. But simply put, they view him as first amongst equals. The main issue here until today is that ec’s tend to feel wronged by rcs in general. Even catholic ruthenians who came to the USA in the 19th century were so mistreated they had to form an orthodox American church just to kep traditions. In fact a few weeks ago an rc told an ordained ec that she would pray for his conversion.
 
Let’s not forget the Latinas sacked Constantinople over this.
Ummm…no. What happened was that a usurper to the throne of Constantinople invited the Latin soldiers (heading for a Crusade) to Constantinople under some pretenses and promises. The Latin soldiers were already nearly depleted financially and materially (in short, they were starving) and the usurper promised them material compensation for their help in getting the throne. When the overthrow was complete, the usurper reneged on his promises, and THEN the Latins sacked Constantinople in anger. The sacking had nothing to do with ecclesiastical issues between East and West.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Ummm…no. What happened was that a usurper to the throne of Constantinople invited the Latin soldiers (heading for a Crusade) to Constantinople under some pretenses and promises. The Latin soldiers were already nearly depleted financially and materially (in short, they were starving) and the usurper promised them material compensation for their help in getting the throne. When the overthrow was complete, the usurper reneged on his promises, and THEN the Latins sacked Constantinople in anger. The sacking had nothing to do with ecclesiastical issues between East and West.

Blessings,
Marduk
Oh yes, that totally justifies the sacking. They helped somebody usurp the throne and then killed innocent civilians when he reneged on his promises. :rolleyes:
 
Oh yes, that totally justifies the sacking. They helped somebody usurp the throne and then killed innocent civilians when he reneged on his promises. :rolleyes:
I know that what happened during the Siege of Constantinople was not right at all. Chirstians killing fellow Chirstians and destroying a Holy City was wrong on so many levels. But all our Orthodox brothers and sisters must know that we are sorry for what happened in the past. Even Blessed John Paul 2 issued an apology during his visit to the Greek Orthodox Church.

I believe this is what he said: For the occasions past and present, when sons and daughters of the Catholic Church have sinned by action or omission against their Orthodox brothers and sisters, may the Lord grant us forgiveness.

I hope we can move forward together in the future so that all of us together can be a witness to the world of Christian love and forgiveness. As well as bringing the Holy Gospel to new nations.
 
Oh yes, that totally justifies the sacking. They helped somebody usurp the throne and then killed innocent civilians when he reneged on his promises. :rolleyes:
Why would you say the real reason behind the sacking justifies the sacking? You have a very strange outlook on the matter.🤷

Blessings,
Marduk
 
You don’t recognize the sarcasm?
Why be sarcastic about the truth? Is it uncomfortable to hear that it is not all the Latins’ fault, that it was a Greek who initiated the whole series of events?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Why be sarcastic about the truth? Is it uncomfortable to hear that it is not all the Latins’ fault, that it was a Greek who initiated the whole series of events?

Blessings,
Marduk
If I offer you $10 to get a bunch of friends together and beat up some person of my choosing, and you accept, who has sinned more, you, me, or your friends?

If one is truly apologetic it doesn’t matter who else is involved.

With that said I don’t think the Sack itself was a sin of the church, it was the sin of those who took part, what happened afterwards was - when the church validated what was done.

An ambitious Greek individual doesn’t matter.
 
Why be sarcastic about the truth? Is it uncomfortable to hear that it is not all the Latins’ fault, that it was a Greek who initiated the whole series of events?

Blessings,
Marduk
What nonsense. You would really hold those who were killed by the Latin crusaders accountable for their own deaths because the crusaders got involved in helping a dishonest man usurp the throne? That’s deplorable. That the crusaders helped a man commit treason against his own empire doesn’t make their crime any less heinous.
 
What nonsense. You would really hold those who were killed by the Latin crusaders accountable for their own deaths because the crusaders got involved in helping a dishonest man usurp the throne? That’s deplorable. That the crusaders helped a man commit treason against his own empire doesn’t make their crime any less heinous.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
For shame, for shame! 😦
 
What nonsense. You would really hold those who were killed by the Latin crusaders accountable for their own deaths because the crusaders got involved in helping a dishonest man usurp the throne? That’s deplorable. That the crusaders helped a man commit treason against his own empire doesn’t make their crime any less heinous.
My friend you need to chill. Where did I say I am blaming the Greeks? And where did I say the actions of the the Latin crusaders were blameless. All I did was explain the real reason behind the sacking because someone thought it was about an ecclesiastical matter, when it was not. It’s reactions like yours that really perpetuate hatred. For shame!

Blessings,
Marduk
 
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