How do people feel about this?

[Corki]

Our Deacon will present the Homily for one of the three weekend Masses. Right now we have 2 Deacons, one is to ordained a Priest next June. The mime in this case seems to have had an inappropriate subject for this act. Perhaps his interpretation was not effective to anyone but himself. Such displays should go through the Parish Council first. But there is a possibility that they gave permission… I agree it should be done outside of Mass.

What does the parish council have to do with anything?!? They have no authority to override liturgical norms nor to allow “acts” to be incorporated into the Mass.

 

[janeway529]

I’ve just come back from the opening Mass of a mission in my parish. Sounds good. But instead of a homily from the priest, we had a layman giving a 10-minute talk, followed by another layman performing a mime act, to music, right in front of the altar and the reserved Blessed Sacrament. Perhaps it’s just me, but it just didn’t seem “right”. Has anybody else experienced something like this? How do other people feel about it?

I really don’t know about the “mime act,” but sometimes the laity are permitted to give a “reflection,” in lieu of a homily.

Also, at a Mass I once attended, the priest began his homily by having the people stand up and sing a song with hand movements, which could be taken for “mime” I suppose, but it was an exercise done to prove a point the priest made in his homily about the lesson from readings and Gospel of the day.

 

[markomalley]

I really don’t know about the “mime act,” but sometimes the laity are permitted to give a “reflection,” in lieu of a homily.

No it is not permitted. Can. 767 §1. Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.
§2. A homily must be given at all Masses on Sundays and holy days of obligation which are celebrated with a congregation, and it cannot be omitted except for a grave cause.
§3. It is strongly recommended that if there is a sufficient congregation, a homily is to be given even at Masses celebrated during the week, especially during the time of Advent and Lent or on the occasion of some feast day or a sorrowful event.
§4. It is for the pastor or rector of a church to take care that these prescripts are observed conscientiously.
Note in §1 the part about the homily being reserved to the priest or deacon. That means that a layperson cannot give a homily. Note in §2 that a homily is REQUIRED on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation.

Calling it a “reflection” instead of a “homily” doesn’t change anything. If it is a talk given after the reading of the Gospel and before the Profession of Faith, it is a homily.

Also, see the General Instruction of the Roman Missal:65. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended,[63] for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.[64]

1. The homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.[65] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

There is to be a homily on Sundays and holy days of obligation at all Masses that are celebrated with the participation of a congregation; it may not be omitted without a serious reason. It is recommended on other days, especially on the weekdays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter Season, as well as on other festive days and occasions when the people come to church in greater numbers.[66]
And Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum:[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,[142] “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.[143] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.[144]

[65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1.[145] This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.
Having said the above, a layperson can be permitted to address the congregants briefly during the Mass, but this is in addition to the homily and is to be done after the Communion Rite and before the dismissal. From RS:[74.] If the need arises for the gathered faithful to be given instruction or testimony by a layperson in a Church concerning the Christian life, it is altogether preferable that this be done outside Mass. Nevertheless, for serious reasons it is permissible that this type of instruction or testimony be given after the Priest has proclaimed the Prayer after Communion. This should not become a regular practice, however. Furthermore, these instructions and testimony should not be of such a nature that they could be confused with the homily,[156] nor is it permissible to dispense with the homily on their account.
The point being that there is a time and place for everything (well, except mimes). The time and place for the laity to speak is NOT when the homily should be given.

 

[HillbillyHermit]

I would have physically booted the mime out of the sanctuary. At least he wouldn’t have screamed.

:clapping:

…Along with anyone who thought that a mime and worship go together. Have people lost all reverence and common sense? That’s beyond ridiculous.

 

[janeway529]

No it is not permitted. Calling it a “reflection” instead of a “homily” doesn’t change anything. If it is a talk given after the reading of the Gospel and before the Profession of Faith, it is a homily.

1. The homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.[65] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

And Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum:[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,[142] “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.[143] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.[144]

[65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1.[145] This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.
Having said the above, a layperson can be permitted to address the congregants briefly during the Mass, but this is in addition to the homily and is to be done after the Communion Rite and before the dismissal. From RS:[74.] If the need arises for the gathered faithful to be given instruction or testimony by a layperson in a Church concerning the Christian life, it is altogether preferable that this be done outside Mass. Nevertheless, for serious reasons it is permissible that this type of instruction or testimony be given after the Priest has proclaimed the Prayer after Communion. This should not become a regular practice, however. Furthermore, these instructions and testimony should not be of such a nature that they could be confused with the homily,[156] nor is it permissible to dispense with the homily on their account.
The point being that there is a time and place for everything (well, except mimes). The time and place for the laity to speak is NOT when the homily should be given.

Call me “legalistic” if you want, but I do know that when a certain seminary posed an inquiry/clarification to the Holy See about seminarians giving a “reflection” during the homily (and getting feedback later) due to the word “ordinarily,” the reply was that the Holy See was neither for or against the practice.

 

[Corki]

Call me “legalistic” if you want, but I do know that when a certain seminary posed an inquiry/clarification to the Holy See about seminarians giving a “reflection” during the homily (and getting feedback later) due to the word “ordinarily,” the reply was that the Holy See was neither for or against the practice.

Three points about that:

1. if the query was made before RS was promulgated, it is now overridden.
2. Even if it was more recent, a query and response about a specific situation where the homily is part of the seminarians’ training as homolists cannot be extrapolated to a normal parish Mass and certainly not to a layperson or a mime.
3. a reflection during the homily is not prohibited but it cannot be** in place** of the homily.

 

[janeway529]

Three points about that:

1. if the query was made before RS was promulgated, it is now overridden.
2. Even if it was more recent, a query and response about a specific situation where the homily is part of the seminarians’ training as homolists cannot be extrapolated to a normal parish Mass and certainly not to a layperson or a mime.
3. a reflection during the homily is not prohibited but it cannot be** in place** of the homily.

The inquiry was made in response to RS. The seminarian’s homiletic training takes place during their time serving at their home parish. Supposedly, the priest makes some brief comments and then the seminarian gives his “reflection.”

 

[Corki]

The inquiry was made in response to RS. The seminarian’s homiletic training takes place during their time serving at their home parish. Supposedly, the priest makes some brief comments and then the seminarian gives his “reflection.”

But that is always allowed. As long as the priest (or deacon) starts it, They are in effect delivering the homily together.

But again, this is a unique situation - seminarians have phases of their formation where they need on-the-job training and specific permission was given. That doesn’t have anything to do with the situation in the OP.

 

[markomalley]

Call me “legalistic” if you want, but I do know that when a certain seminary posed an inquiry/clarification to the Holy See about seminarians giving a “reflection” during the homily (and getting feedback later) due to the word “ordinarily,” the reply was that the Holy See was neither for or against the practice.

Do you have a link from Notitiae or some other official source?

 

[janeway529]

Do you have a link from Notitiae or some other official source?

No, I don’t have a link. It came up in a talk with the seminary rector.

 

[markomalley]

No, I don’t have a link. It came up in a talk with the seminary rector.

What I could envision is a private inquiry being made to cover the Homiletics practicum that Theology 3 seminarians have to take as part of their formation program. I would imagine that the congregants in that case would be other seminarians.

But since, in all likelihood, this was done as a matter of private correspondence, it isn’t something that would be generally applicable.

Also, “ordinarily”, as used in the GIRM, cited above, is talking about the priest celebrant, as opposed to another priest or a deacon.

 

[PJM]

=Mark1970;11293808]I’ve just come back from the opening Mass of a mission in my parish. Sounds good. But instead of a homily from the priest, we had a layman giving a 10-minute talk, followed by another layman performing a mime act, to music, right in front of the altar and the reserved Blessed Sacrament. Perhaps it’s just me, but it just didn’t seem “right”. Has anybody else experienced something like this? How do other people feel about it?

I suggest finding a diffferent parish