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MiserereMeiDei
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I’ve heard…but I like to assume better of Catholic nursing homes.
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How do people who use contraception go to confession?
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Jen7
Guest
This is so, so sad!! So many sheep ignorant because their shepherds are deliberately looking the other way! Lord, save your people!!
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Jen7
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I would think that’s because surgery has its own risks. But I agree - it does seem wrong!
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Minks
Guest
@MiserereMeiDei
It’s been so many years ago, over 30, that I honestly don’t remember with certainty, but I don’t think any were Catholic homes.
I was usually on overnight duty with a 12-hr shift beginning at 7:00, 8:00, or 9:00 PM, although sometimes I had a day shift. I stayed with normal patients whose families were concerned that their loved ones might get short shrift because of the typical staff shortages, with Alzheimer’s patients (a hoot!), and with patients who were at risk of falling and inclined to be too impatient to wait for assistance. The pay was practically zilch, but a little dab was better than none, and it was easy to love the patients.
It’s been so many years ago, over 30, that I honestly don’t remember with certainty, but I don’t think any were Catholic homes.
I was usually on overnight duty with a 12-hr shift beginning at 7:00, 8:00, or 9:00 PM, although sometimes I had a day shift. I stayed with normal patients whose families were concerned that their loved ones might get short shrift because of the typical staff shortages, with Alzheimer’s patients (a hoot!), and with patients who were at risk of falling and inclined to be too impatient to wait for assistance. The pay was practically zilch, but a little dab was better than none, and it was easy to love the patients.
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
I observed this on some people who use it and would tell me about this- they usually regret using it, go to Confession and then fall back into it. Or perhaps they can invoke their regret during Confession but are not strong enough to completely stop afterwards / just stop caring. I think it mostly depends on person, but I think it’s akin to how people confess masturbation.
I am sure that priests are in many cases instructed to not ask questions on private topics like this to the penitents…To not make them moove away from confession and the Church.
It is not a new topic.
Anyway, confessions is less and less offered and practiced by the faithfull.
It is not a new topic.
Anyway, confessions is less and less offered and practiced by the faithfull.
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edward_george1
Guest
I’m a priest.
I’ve never been instructed thus, and if I were, I would ignore the instruction. No sense in giving out false mercy. You can’t lie to people to keep them in the Church.
And I don’t know what you’re talking about with Confessions being less offered and less practiced. I hear confessions every single day.
I’ve never been instructed thus, and if I were, I would ignore the instruction. No sense in giving out false mercy. You can’t lie to people to keep them in the Church.
And I don’t know what you’re talking about with Confessions being less offered and less practiced. I hear confessions every single day.
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
We have quite a few churches in the area only offering confessions for 15 or 30 minutes one day a week. It seems rare to find a diocesan church that offers confessions more than that, though we have a few that offer them every day before mass. I’m sure the parishioners can arrange a confession outside that time slot, but that’s a horse of a different color.
Unfortunately, even with a good bishop, I hear he still gets a lot of pushback from the local priests. I can’t say I understand church politics at all because I’m sure the Abp. would love to force certain changes but knows better why he cannot, regardless of his titular authority.
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rotlex
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This is one of the reasons I struggle with the teaching on contraception. I can’t make sense of it no matter how I look at it. Then again, and I’m going to sound harsh, I can’t see the Churches views on contraception, especially barrier or withdrawal methods, as making any sense at all and yes, I’ve read, heard and discussed all the arguments.
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JoeShlabotnik
Guest
It is a sin.
Like other sins committed, people confess and receive absolution.
I know it sounds simplistic, but as flawed people, all we can do is try not to sin.
God knows we will likely fall short of our goals.
That is what confession is for.
Like other sins committed, people confess and receive absolution.
I know it sounds simplistic, but as flawed people, all we can do is try not to sin.
God knows we will likely fall short of our goals.
That is what confession is for.
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whatistrue
Guest
(emphasis mine)
That to me is the key. If you do it on purpose, and aren’t actually sorry for it, is the confession valid?
Scenario 1: You are not a Catholic, or not practicing, or not properly catechized, or and undergo permanent sterilization. Later on, you become a fully practicing Catholic, get proper catechesis, and realize what a serious sin you did. You are heartily sorry for it, go to confession, and are absolved. At least this is how I understand it.
Scenario 2: You are Catholic and fully aware of the grave nature of what you are doing, but undergo permanent sterilization anyway. You go to confession, but are not actually sorry for your act. Under those circumstances, does the absolution actually take effect, or are you just compounding your sin by lying about your contrition?
Thanks you for your reply.
As my post was to vague, for clarification:
I am an historian, and i have seen documents from a bishop (from the XIXth century and in France) instructed seminarians in their last year of studies to not ask questions to pnitents toward their potential use of contraception. One of the argument is that a person is free of sin if they don’t know it is a sin. And another is that if people are not ready to akwoldege the use is sinful it would draw them away from confession and the Church.
For confessions being less practiced I was comparing from some decades ago (maybe the middle XXth century).
In my parish, as in many rural parishes, except (I am not sure) from Easter, confessions are never offered. The parish website direct people who are interested to the next bigger parish and to call the rectory to make an appointment. So even in the other parish it seems not to have planned schedules for confession.
As my post was to vague, for clarification:
I am an historian, and i have seen documents from a bishop (from the XIXth century and in France) instructed seminarians in their last year of studies to not ask questions to pnitents toward their potential use of contraception. One of the argument is that a person is free of sin if they don’t know it is a sin. And another is that if people are not ready to akwoldege the use is sinful it would draw them away from confession and the Church.
For confessions being less practiced I was comparing from some decades ago (maybe the middle XXth century).
In my parish, as in many rural parishes, except (I am not sure) from Easter, confessions are never offered. The parish website direct people who are interested to the next bigger parish and to call the rectory to make an appointment. So even in the other parish it seems not to have planned schedules for confession.
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Taras_Bulba
Guest
In my town it is spotty. The church near my work offers confession 30 minutes before each mass, and they have a daily noon mass that is great for working people on lunch break. I go there for confession. My parish church, 25 miles away, offers confession once a week on Saturday, 3:30 to 5:00, or make an appt. As a consequence, I almost never go there, except for the Easter community penitential service where we say the penitential rite all together and then confess to one of about a dozen priests from all different parishes.
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bookshelf
Guest
As far as I am aware, the Church has no magisterial teaching on what couples are supposed to do if one or both of them has been deliberately sterilized with contraceptive intent (as opposed to a hysterectomy, removal of the gonads, or surgery that has otherwise rendered them involuntarily sterile). There is no teaching that they must have it surgically reversed. For the woman, it would be invasive surgery within the core of the body to go back in and join the Fallopian tubes back together. For the man, it would not be as invasive, if only the vasa deferentia had to be spliced back together. But in either case it could be too costly, not certain to work, and could have health risks. Each case is different.
I have heard that in some cases, various sorts of reparation have been counseled — abstaining in what would otherwise be the fertile times, some kind of penance, and so on. That would be between a couple and their confessor or spiritual advisor. I, for one, would be willing to entertain the idea of having the couple make a regular donation to a charity that helps poor couples who struggle to support large families. And there is always the concept of simply having to live with the knowledge that one’s fertility has been permanently damaged. That, too, could be penitential. As with reversal, each case is different.
I have a very hard time understanding how it is desirable to leave people in good conscience when they shouldn’t be. It sounds like a case of “the tail wagging the dog”, i.e., the penitent being allowed to continue sinning, because otherwise they’ll get discouraged and abandon the sacraments or leave the Church altogether.
I’d like to see “examination of conscience cards”, perhaps laminated flyers, be readily available in pews and confessionals, with a special section (in bold print or red letters, perhaps) devoted to sins that the modern world leads Catholics to think are OK to commit — contraception, self-pleasuring, deliberate serious drunkenness, cheating on one’s income taxes, and so on.
I have mentioned this elsewhere on CAF, but one parish I went to many years ago, the pastor was an unreconstructed traditionalist who said the Novus Ordo out of obedience even though it was painful for him, had cards like this outside the confessional. I love what it said at the bottom in italics — “make this confession as though it were your last”. The pastor, beloved by his parishioners, was eventually removed “for health reasons”. A self-appointed, wild-eyed “change agent” went around telling everyone “it is for his own good”. Nobody was buying it.
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gingko
Guest
This is a personal anecdote. When I started going to confession on a regular basis about a year ago, the priest I confessed contraception use to told me if I do not want to use contraception to tell my husband I refuse. I didn’t like it, but my husband was imposing it on me. The priest said if my husband wants to do that, he should take responsibility for his own sin. A lot of priests know there’s a spouse pushing the issue, and the spouse who adheres to the Church’s teaching should put their foot down. We are all responsible for our own sins.
I would have to defer to a priest on this — @edward_george1, could you help us out here? — but my understanding is that if the contracepting spouse insists upon using an artificial method of birth control themselves (e.g., the wife taking BC pills or the husband wearing a condom), and the non-contracepting spouse does not encourage, condone, or will this in any way, the NC spouse has not sinned. Am I correct?
For what it’s worth, NFP requires cooperation and equal sharing of responsibility. No other method of birth regulation does this.
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Kima
Guest
Confession builds upon the principle of asking for forgiveness for sins that we are sorry for. Also, we are to confess all of our mortal sins. So, if you´re willingly witholding a mortal sin while in confession, you have basically made an invalid confession, which is only adding on to your list of sins.
Also, we need to adjust our opinions in regards to what is grave and what is not, in likeness with what the Church teaches on these topics. My personal opinion are only subjective, while the Church´s one is objective. One sort of has quite some moral responsibility to do research on these things if one is not sure whether an act is sinful or not - and if they can´t decide they can always ask their pastor.
Also, we need to adjust our opinions in regards to what is grave and what is not, in likeness with what the Church teaches on these topics. My personal opinion are only subjective, while the Church´s one is objective. One sort of has quite some moral responsibility to do research on these things if one is not sure whether an act is sinful or not - and if they can´t decide they can always ask their pastor.
What I was speaking of is of some priests who may not ask a penitent. If the penitent accuse himself of this sin, of course the priest would absolve him without deny the sinful nature of the act.
Why not? Good idea.
blackforest
Well-known member
I hear this argument a lot but can’t see it in practice. Most of it’s on the woman - charting, temperatures, etc. And if you’re curious about that “periodic abstinence” part, do a search on those ever-fun “marital duty” threads on CAF.
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