How do pro-women's ordination deal with the 12 male Apostles?

  • Thread starter Thread starter catholic1seeks
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

catholic1seeks

Guest
If Christ were using today’s standards of equality, wouldn’t he have opted for 6 male Apostles and 6 female Apostles? The reasoning I often see for women’s ordination basically goes like this: Unless women are equal in every way to men, with the exact same opportunities, then they are subject to injustice.

So how to Christians (who want women’s ordination) deal with Christ appointing 12 men as Apostles?

I know this is a Catholic forum, and so many of y’all will be answering from second-hand knowledge. But still, any familiarity with this?
 
Last edited:
Equal in dignity but different in roles. No problem at all. No injustice.
It was Our Lords choice, not mine.
 
Right, but I’m asking about how Christians who want women priests deal with Christ’s choice of 12 male Apostles. Any idea on that?
 
True, but what I’m saying is this: Christians who want women’s ordination have to deal with the 12 male Apostles. So do they just say it was a matter of culture? Do they say Jesus was sexist? I’m guessing few Christians say these things. So they must have some other reason.

I’m just asking if anyone on CAF is familiar with how pro-women’s ordination deal with the 12 male Apostles.
 
Last edited:
catholic1seeks said:
The reasoning I often see for women’s ordination basically goes like this: Unless women are equal in every way to men, with the exact same opportunities, then they are subject to injustice.
Click to expand...
We cannot create glass ceilings. We are not equal to men, we excel at many things men flounder at, and vice versa

Glass ceilings create false dichotomies
 
Okay, I’ll bite. They’ll say it was a matter of culture, or perhaps convenience. They’ll point out that the apostles were probably all Caucasian, too, and ask if non Caucasian men are proper matter for ordination. And they’ll tell you that in Christ there is no east or west, slave or free, male or female, that anyone who fears the Lord and does what is right is acceptable to him. Sorry if this will anger you, but I wholeheartedly believe that women are proper matter for ordination, and this is one reason I choose to worship God as an Episcopalian.
 
I can’t buy your Caucasian argument, given we know Jesus was born into a very cosmopolitan first century Roman Occupied Palestine.
 
Wait. Who says the Apostles were Caucasian?

And no, it doesn’t anger me. You are Episcopalian and have different views, after all. That’s why I’m asking the question 🙂
 
But they were all Jews, right? How many non-Semitic Jews were there?
 
So we can assume that all men who want to be priests also just want to be in a position of power etc etc…?
Whether you lean towards or against the arguments for women priests could you not conceive of a purer motive for a woman to desire ordination such as a wish to serve God perhaps?
 
Although I lean toward allowing women to be ordained, I’ll settle for other arrangements. Let’s allow women to have full decision making authority on the same level as ordained men.
People often say that women have leadership roles in the Church as abbesses, etc. Let’s expand that role. Let women vote on equal footing with bishops. Let’s allow women into the Magesterium. Supposedly, it’s possible for women to be named Cardinals. Why not take that step?
 
Are you saying all Jews are white, all lily pink
 
Last edited:
No, but I looked it up. Semitic people are part of the category of Caucasian. For whatever those categories are worth.
 
Yes, this is why we have to be smart and charitable.

My cousin is a female pastor, but of a non-Catholic church.
 
Whenever I imagine woman priests, I think of my Catholic school principal. I wouldn’t want her as a priest. She was not nice.
 
Last edited:
I think we must promote these as lay level opportunities, first. And you are right.

But once all that is done, there will still be people who say that women exclusion from liturgical life is unjust.
 
catholic1seeks said:
there will still be people who say that women exclusion from liturgical life is unjust.
Click to expand...
I might be one of them, but I’m willing to work out concessions.
(as if any of this is negotiable . . . . 😁)
 
Last edited:
Which gets back to the original question: How do we deal with Jesus choosing only 12 men as the Apostles? Even if you don’t count that as a strictly liturgical role, you still have to admit Jesus only chose men for one office/role in the Church.

(Though I guess there are some out there who are fluid with what “Apostle” means.)

Was that unjust? Etc.
 
Last edited:
Semitic is more properly subscribed to languages of peoples rather then race.
There has been a lot of confusion between race and language

Big topic for more time and another thread
 
Last edited:
they use the “le only jews ordained” meme, which falls flat when you realize that those jews ordained gentiles, but only male gentiles
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top