How do Protestants deal with James on faith and works?

[steido01]

This is what the Lutherans call ‘Sanctification,’ which comes after Justification in a way similar to how a Roman Catholic would be ‘Converted’ and then ‘Justified.’

Take care not to confuse the typical American Evangelical Gospel-Reductonist with Lutheranism. No Lutheran would ever say that faith without works is a saving faith. No, it is, as James explains, a dead faith. Or, as Luther himself puts it in his defense of Baptism in the Large Catechism:

Our would-be wise, “new spirits” assert that faith alone saves, that works and outward things do nothing. We answer, “It is true, indeed, that nothing in us is of any use but faith, as we shall hear still further.” But these blind guides are unwilling to see this: faith must have something that it believes, that is, of which she takes hold (2 Timothy 1:13; Titus 1:9) and upon which it stands and rests (1 Corinthians 2:5)… Now these “new spirits” are so crazy that they separate faith and the object to which faith clings and is bound… if the “new spirits” say, as they are accustomed, “Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works have no use for salvation. What, then, becomes of faith?” Answer: “Yes, our works, indeed, do nothing for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work, but God’s.”

So too are the good works we do. When done in sincere love for neighbor, it is not so much we who have done them, but the Spirit who has laid them out for us. So for us to say “One must do good works to be saved,” gets the process backward. From the Lutheran perspective, anyway.

And in his introduction to Romans:

Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever… Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!

 

[Agathon]

Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works have no use for salvation. What, then, becomes of faith?” Answer: “Yes, our works, indeed, do nothing for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work, but God’s.”

Yet one must submit to baptism so although God gives us the graces, we are willing participants.

 

[malvaradosr]

It would be helpful here to define the terms in our discussion in order to avoid talking past one other. Protestant theology makes a distinction between Justification and Sanctification. In the former, man is completely passive and it is understood in the legal declarative sense before the bar of God on the basis of the work of Christ. Hence it is distinct from Sanctification in that it is not a process. Sanctification then would be described as the ongoing reformation of the Christian as he is aided by the grace of God. He works out his own salvation with fear and trembling while at the same time recognizing that it is God who is at work in him to will and to work for his good pleasure. One of our theologians (Reformed) has put it concisely, “justification is akin to what a judge does; sanctification is akin to what a surgeon does.” (my paraphrase). It is clear that our Catholic friends use Justification in different sense. It is also clear that Scripture itself uses the word “justify” differently in several passages and we must interpret which sense is being used based on the immediate context and with reference to other portions of Scripture. It was pointed out by a previous comment that justify could equally mean “shown to be righteous” and also “declared to be righteous".

I’ll add here that a key portion of Scripture that often gets overlooked in this discussion is Romans 4 where we read:

“For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.” (Romans 4:2)

This is of course rhetorical and the obvious expected answer is no, he was not justified by works. Paul by no means contradicts James. Here in this passage he references the account of Abraham before the Lord. God promised him that his offspring would be as numerous as the stars. Despite being old and Sarah being barren, despite focusing on on the dire prospects of his circumstances, Abraham believed that what God had promised he was also able to accomplish. Abraham believed God. Paul picks up on this and continues to explain:

“For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,” (Romans 4:3-5)

Some important things to notice so far are:
1)That Abraham was justified by faith before God
2)That this justification was years before Isaac was born and thus prior to the account that James refers to
3)That his faith was counted as righteousness
This is what Protestants refer to when we say “by faith alone”. What did Abraham do? Technically he didn’t do anything (strictly speaking in this instance). The promise was given and he just believed. And the analogy between Abraham and Christians today lends itself nicely. We too have received promises. Despite being naturally sinful and opposed to all that is good, despite focusing on the dire prospects of our spiritual circumstances, we also believe that what God has promised he is also able to accomplish.

 

[rcwitness]

This is what the Lutherans call ‘Sanctification,’ which comes after Justification in a way similar to how a Roman Catholic would be ‘Converted’ and then ‘Justified.’

Sanctification is part of Salvation. Justification has an initiation, and also moments of doing the will of God. No one earns Justification apart from faith, which is Gods grace to freely reveal to man His identity and will.

So too are the good works we do. When done in sincere love for neighbor, it is not so much we who have done them, but the Spirit who has laid them out for us. So for us to say “One must do good works to be saved,” gets the process backward. From the Lutheran perspective, anyway.

“One must do good works to be saved” depends on when we are judged. I agree we would not say this to mean we have earned justification. That would mean Christ did not need to die! But according to Matthew 25, Jesus judges whether a man shall enter into the kingdom based on his works.

You can rightly say, Jesus will determine if a man has already been justified! I would not argue. But how does Jesus determine that? By his works. So faith is the hope and knowledge that Jesus has declared us righteous, who turn to His justification. And faith is vain and fruitless if it has no cooperation from man’s comverted soul to suffer and love God and neighbor.

 

[malvaradosr]

If the terms “faith alone” seem to not communicate our intentions we could easily just say “by faith apart from the works of the law” (Romans 3:28)

Having established this, we can now properly turn our attention to James. It is evident that his major concern throughout the whole epistle is to address the idea of disingenuous faith. A faith that professes one thing and then the works which show another. This should be clear by such examples:

“For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.” (James 1:23,24)

“If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.” (James 1:26)

And so when we get to the passage in dispute it is quite natural to follow this train of thought. Abraham’s faith was not a mere intellectual assent, it was evidenced by his works. The offering of Isaac showed genuineness of his faith. He was justified (shown to be righteous) by his works. Would anyone be so bold to say that we are justified (declared to be righteous) on the basis of our works? I cannot say that I fully understand the Catholic position, but then I guess that’s why we are here engaging in dialogue. However, I would argue that if we say that we are justified (declared to be righteous) by our works then we run the risk of turning the gospel into a reward for the righteous rather than a gift for the unrighteous. The gratuitous nature of grace is thereby destroyed and it seems to me utterly irreconcilable with the rest of Paul’s epistles on the matter.

 

[steido01]

And now we get dangerously close to agreement.

 

[GladTidings]

What are, “new spirits”?

 

[steido01]

Luther had creative names for those who held to odd beliefs. The “new spirits” refers to those who thought “faith alone” meant mere intellectual assent or a special rumbly in the tumbly. Consequently, those folks rejected Baptism. Those spirits, he thought, were foreign to the church.

 

[GladTidings]

Thank you.

 

[twoboys]

Theology aside, I personally don’t like the term “faith alone”. It apparently causes division and potential arguments. At the end of the day, we probably found that a majority of us share similar understanding of the interplay between faith and works.

We are all disciple of Jesus Christ, who was raised from dead by the Father, being the first fruit. With faith and hope, we will all be raised in the same manners by God the Father and enter God’s Kingdom through Christ our Lord.

 

[lanman87]

I think thats reasonable understanding… except for the bolded! James is not compelling us to do works to be justified to men!

Then why did James say 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" ?

Who was James talking to when he said he would show them his faith by his works? The readers of the Epistle or God?

In the Reformed view James is in effect telling us that Faith changes our attitudes and actions. And those attitudes and actions are evident in our life. We show others (give evidence) of faith by our works(actions). Abraham gave evidence of his faith by his actions. Rahab gave evidence of her faith by her actions.

Faith without actions is a fraudulent declaration, a deceptive proclamation. It is like telling someone you love them and then not caring what happens to them. I can say “I love you” all day long but unless my actions reflect “love” then it is just empty words. I can say “I have faith” all day long but unless my actions reflect “faith” (faith working in love) then it is just empty words. A dead faith is saying “I have faith” but it is just empty words. There is no life in the declaration. My works give my words (I have faith) life the same way doing something special for my wife brings my words (I love you) life.

Works are the expression and exercise of our faith. They both make our faith evident and make our faith stronger.

 

[lanman87]

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 6:1 ESV

To really get what Jesus was saying you have to read the entire section.

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words

Christ is not telling us to hide our faith. He is telling us to not be self righteous, self centered hypocrites, who want others to commend our “righteousness” and glorify ourselves.

In the sermon on the mount Jesus said.

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

When we give evidence of our faith we are not like the Pharisees, who’s hearts were from from God. We are doing what Christ told us to do. Letting our light shine before others so that they may also Glorify God. We have the greatest “light” in the universe. The Spirit of God Himself dwells within us and when we proclaim the Gospel (speak) and live the Gospel (do works) we are not glorifying ourselves and we are not giving evidence of our own goodness. Instead, we are giving evidence of the grace and love and power of Christ that raised us from being dead in our trespasses and sins, makes us new creations in Christ, and adopt us as His Children.

 

[Agathon]

In the Reformed view James is in effect telling us that Faith changes our attitudes and actions. And those attitudes and actions are evident in our life. We show others (give evidence) of faith by our works(actions). Abraham gave evidence of his faith by his actions. Rahab gave evidence of her faith by her actions.

But, my brother, why does James say that Abraham’s faith was completed by his works? (This passage means a lot to me since this is one of my namesakes. )

 

[phil19034]

That’s how it was explained to me. You’re saved solely through faith, but that faith will give you a desire to be obedient and perform good works. The salvation of someone who made a profession of faith but then committed very serious sin is suspect. (was raised “once saved always saved” Baptist; other denoms will differ)

Yes, I’ve heard Protestants say this… but it’s totally wrong.

We are justified by Faith, but we are saved by Grace.

 

[JonNC]

We are justified by Faith, but we are saved by Grace.

This I absolutely agree with.

 

[opulumpu]

t should be noted that there is joint Catholic-Lutheran statement on justification that acknowledges the broadly converging views described by

Which Lutheran denomination/denominations are you talking about; there are over 40 in the USA. Do they all agree on this justification thing.

People talk about reconciliation with the RCC, but better still, reconciliation of all Christians. That is fine and desirable. The truth of the matter is that there are so many splinter groups to reconcile with. We are talking dogma here and not individuals. It is so sad.

 

[JonNC]

Which Lutheran denomination/denominations are you talking about; there are over 40 in the USA. Do they all agree on this justification thing.

Lutherans generally tend to be in one of two groups:

The Bible is the standard, of course–but Lutherans also consider the Confessions a standard. One distinction that is made is that the Bible is considered the “norming norm” (norma normans) and the Confessions are considered the “normed norm” (norma normata). But here’s the next question: does one accept the Confessions quia–because–they are in accordance with Scripture, or quatenus–insofar as–they are in accordance with Scripture?

Quia or Quatenus? | Pax et bonum

Generally, Lutherans who hold to a quia view, likevthe LCMS, link to other Lutheran synods that do. Same with quatenas Lutherans.
Internationally, one sees that in played out in two groups, the LWF, and the ILC.
While you may see “40” Lutheran groups, that is often a reflection of the fact that Lutherans view polity as adiaphoron

 

[JonNC]

steido01:

Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works have no use for salvation. What, then, becomes of faith?” Answer: “Yes, our works, indeed, do nothing for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work, but God’s.”

Yet one must submit to baptism so although God gives us the graces, we are willing participants.

I didn’t submit. I was a month and a day old.
Even for an adult, the call to submit is not our work, but the work of grace in us.

 

[Agathon]

I didn’t submit. I was a month and a day old.

But your parents spoke through you. That’s submission enough.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

I didn’t submit. I was a month and a day old.

But your parents spoke through you. That’s submission enough.

Guided by the Holy Spirit, and once there, Baptism is a work only of God. Sacraments are not works.