How do Protestants deal with James on faith and works?

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Reformed/Calvinist view:
Westminster Confession:
CHAPTER 16
Of Good Works
  1. Good works are only such as God hath commanded in his holy Word, and not such as, without the warrant thereof, are devised by men, out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intention.
  2. These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith: and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.
  3. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, beside the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will, and to do, of his good pleasure: yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.
  4. They who, in their obedience, attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.
  5. We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin, or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come; and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom, by them, we can neither profit, nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins, but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants: and because, as they are good, they proceed from his Spirit; and as they are wrought by us, they are defiled, and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God’s judgment.
  6. Notwithstanding, the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him; not as though they were in this life wholly unblamable and unreprovable in God’s sight; but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.
  7. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands; and of good use both to themselves and others: yet, because they proceed not from an heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful, and cannot please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God: and yet, their neglect of them is more sinful and displeasing unto God.
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http://www.opc.org/wcf.html#Chapter_16
 
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lilypadrees said:
The Protestants I know, and yes, they proudly call themselves Protestants, believe we are saved by faith alone and that works are a result of that faith but our works do nothing to save us.
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Hi lily,

can I ask what exactly is it about faith that is seen to save us?

Is it that faith allows a communion with God and it is this communion that saves us and helps us to do good works?

Thank you.
 
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And the Eucharist? You have to eat His flesh to gain eternal life. I’m pretty sure that’s something YOU do.
 
Agathon said:
And the Eucharist? You have to eat His flesh to gain eternal life. I’m pretty sure that’s something YOU do.
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I absolutely receive His true body and blood.
Again, the work of the Spirit guides us to receive His body and blood, to confess our sins, to hear His word, to be confirmed. These are not our works, but His work in us.
Can we say no to His call and refuse? Of course. Can we, of our own willing and choosing, without the influence of grace, choose to? No.
 
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JonNC said:
Again, the work of the Spirit guides us to receive His body and blood, to confess our sins, to hear His word, to be confirmed.
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It’s synergy. God provides the grace, but we participate in that grace.
 
Agathon said:
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JonNC:
Again, the work of the Spirit guides us to receive His body and blood, to confess our sins, to hear His word, to be confirmed.
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It’s synergy. God provides the grace, but we participate in that grace.
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Can we participate without grace?
 
lanman87 said:
When we give evidence of our faith we are not like the Pharisees, who’s hearts were from from God. We are doing what Christ told us to do. Letting our light shine before others so that they may also Glorify God. We have the greatest “light” in the universe. The Spirit of God Himself dwells within us and when we proclaim the Gospel (speak) and live the Gospel (do works) we are not glorifying ourselves and we are not giving evidence of our own goodness. Instead, we are giving evidence of the grace and love and power of Christ that raised us from being dead in our trespasses and sins, makes us new creations in Christ, and adopt us as His Children.
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Wonderful! So, where do you get this ‘justified before men’ idea?
 
Luther first attempted to toss out the Epistle of James. If it wasn’t for Melancthon stopping him, he would have. But the fact that he even thought about it is a red flag.

These guys always rail against “Popish ways”, but yet they became even greater than Popes in trying to dismantle canons and putting themselves above Ecumenical Councils.
 
straykat said:
Luther first attempted to toss out the Epistle of James. If it wasn’t for Melancthon stopping him, he would have. But the fact that he even thought about it is a red flag.
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I’ve heard this often. Please link to a corroborating source
 
JonNC said:
I’ve heard this often. Please link to a corroborating source
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What’s the use?! You’ll just argue it’s out of context if it doesn’t jibe with your preconceived opinion.
 
" I consider that it is not the writing of any apostle. My reasons are as follows. First: Flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture, it ascribes righteousness to works. . . . Second, its purpose is to teach Christians, and in all this long teaching it does not once mention the Passion, the Resurrection, or the Spirit of Christ. . . . James does nothing more than drive to the law and its works; and he mixes the two up in such disorderly fashion that it seems to me he must have been some good, pious man, who took some sayings of the apostles’ disciples and threw them thus on paper; or perhaps they were written down by someone else from his
preaching. . . . In a word, he wants to guard against those who relied on faith without works, and is unequal to the task . . . and would accomplish by insisting on the Law what the apostles accomplish by inciting men to love. Therefore, I cannot put him among the chief books, though I would not thereby prevent anyone from putting him where he pleases and estimating him as he pleases; for there are many good sayings in him.”

Luther’s Works, vol. 35,
Word and Sacrament

And his infamous line: “The epistle of straw” (from the same works…but different page):

“In a word, St. John’s Gospel and his first epistle, St. Paul’s epistles, especially Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians, and St. Peter’s first epistle are the books that show you Christ and teach you all that it is necessary and salvatory for you to know, even if you were never to see or hear any other book or doctrine. St. James’ epistle is really an epistle of straw, compared to the others, for it has nothing of the nature of the gospel about it.”
 
Don’t forget, Luther wanted to “throw Jimmy in the stove”. Oh, wait, he was referring to a statue, and not the epistle of Saint James… :roll_eyes:
 
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AugustTherese said:
Wonderful! So, where do you get this ‘justified before men’ idea?
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Well, in this particular passage it comes from the topic of the passage. The key sentence in this understanding is verse 18 but someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

The passage is addressing those who claim to have faith but don’t give evidence of faith by changed actions. James is pointing out that any declaration of faith without evidence (showing your faith by your works) is just empty words and not really faith at all. He is pointing out that faith is more than mere mental assent and intellectual understanding. Any true faith will be shown by our actions and if there are no actions then, no matter what we claim, it isn’t faith.

That understanding fits perfectly with the greek word dikaioutai for the english word justified. The context is clearly using dikaioutai as “show to be just/righteous”. It also fits perfectly with Ephesians 2:8-9. Where we are saved by faith, not of our own doing, not of works…" and Romans 4:5, Romans 5:1, Romans 3:27 and so forth. We are no longer under a law of works, be it the Jewish Law or Christian Legalism. We are now under a law of faith. Everything we do flows from faith and the faith is evident by what we do.
 
lanman87 said:
The passage is addressing those who claim to have faith but don’t give evidence of faith by changed actions.
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Okay…but, what’s the problem with that? If we are justified by faith alone, before God, why would one have to be justified by works, but only before men?
 
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