How do Protestants explain (James 5: 14-15)

[ufamtobie]

(James 5: 14-15) Is there anyone sick among you? He should ask for the PRIESTS of the CHURCH. They in turn are going to PRAY over him with OIL in the name (of the LORD). This prayer uttered in FAITH will reclaim the one who is ILL, and the LORD will Restore him to Health. IF HE HAS COMMITTED ANY SINS, FORGIVENESS WILL BE HIS.

The Truths are:

If one wants to get married he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one wants to get Baptized he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one want to be healed/forgiven from sickness/sins he/she goes and follows the Example of (James 5: 14-15) sees a Priest of the CHURCH and be FORGIVEN of his or her sins. Catholics do this and Protestants don’t.

Who Truely Marries the couple, Jesus through the Priests, of the CHURCH!

Can we Marry ourselves? NO!

Who Truely Baptizes the People, Jesus through the Priests of the CHURCH!

Can we Baptize Ourselves? NO!

Who Truely HEALS/FORGIVES poeple from their SINS, Jesus, through the Priest of the CHURCH!

Can we have forgivness without going to a Priest? Well, this is something we Catholics don’t have to worry about, for we all go to the Priests of Jesus Christ Church for the FORGIVNESS of our SINS for we take the above Bible Verse litterally. And if I were a Protestant then I will worry! Why? Becasue I would know in my heart that I am not following…(JAMES 5:14-15) and that is to go and see the Priest of the CHURCH for Healing and to have my sins forgiven.

Protestants, Truely the Lord uses His Priests of His Church for the above Sacraments.

God Bless you on your Journey HOME to the Catholic Church.

Ufamtobie

I

 

[love4mary]

Actually, in a Catholic Marriage, the priest or deacon act ONLY as a witness of the Church. The couple says the words that make the marriage happen.

I just got married in May, and this is what was explained to me by my parish priest (though he said it much better then I just did) In fact, when we were rehearsing, he would NOT let us say the entire vows because at a certain point, we would have married.rolleyes: in hindsight, would have saved us Tons of stress over not having a full Nuptial Wedding)

Now, back to thread topic.

 

[ufamtobie]

Actually, in a Catholic Marriage, the priest or deacon act ONLY as a witness of the Church. The couple says the words that make the marriage happen.

I just got married in May, and this is what was explained to me by my parish priest (though he said it much better then I just did) In fact, when we were rehearsing, he would NOT let us say the entire vows because at a certain point, we would have married.rolleyes: in hindsight, would have saved us Tons of stress over not having a full Nuptial Wedding)

Now, back to thread topic.

Congratulations!!!

Ufamtobie

 

[HankZ]

I don’t see priest in that verse, the word used is elders. Even if the word used is priest, the RCC was not arround back then. It took a few hundred years before the church was established in any form of it’s current structure. So the priest refered to would have had to have been the Temple priest and that makes no sense as they were against Christ and His teaching.
HankZ

 

[HankZ]

Actually, in a Catholic Marriage, the priest or deacon act ONLY as a witness of the Church. The couple says the words that make the marriage happen.

I just got married in May, and this is what was explained to me by my parish priest (though he said it much better then I just did) In fact, when we were rehearsing, he would NOT let us say the entire vows because at a certain point, we would have married.rolleyes: in hindsight, would have saved us Tons of stress over not having a full Nuptial Wedding)

Now, back to thread topic.

Conratulations!:extrahappy:

 

[BrianH]

(James 5: 14-15) Is there anyone sick among you? He should ask for the PRIESTS of the CHURCH. They in turn are going to PRAY over him with OIL in the name (of the LORD). This prayer uttered in FAITH will reclaim the one who is ILL, and the LORD will Restore him to Health. IF HE HAS COMMITTED ANY SINS, FORGIVENESS WILL BE HIS.

The Truths are:

If one wants to get married he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one wants to get Baptized he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one want to be healed/forgiven from sickness/sins he/she goes and follows the Example of (James 5: 14-15) sees a Priest of the CHURCH and be FORGIVEN of his or her sins. Catholics do this and Protestants don’t.

Who Truely Marries the couple, Jesus through the Priests, of the CHURCH!

Can we Marry ourselves? NO!

Who Truely Baptizes the People, Jesus through the Priests of the CHURCH!

Can we Baptize Ourselves? NO!

Who Truely HEALS/FORGIVES poeple from their SINS, Jesus, through the Priest of the CHURCH!

Can we have forgivness without going to a Priest? Well, this is something we Catholics don’t have to worry about, for we all go to the Priests of Jesus Christ Church for the FORGIVNESS of our SINS for we take the above Bible Verse litterally. And if I were a Protestant then I will worry! Why? Becasue I would know in my heart that I am not following…(JAMES 5:14-15) and that is to go and see the Priest of the CHURCH for Healing and to have my sins forgiven.

Protestants, Truely the Lord uses His Priests of His Church for the above Sacraments.

God Bless you on your Journey HOME to the Catholic Church.

Ufamtobie

I

The word for priest is hiereus. This is an odd translation to say the least. It should be elder or presbyter.
Also it says nothing about confessing sins to the elders…

Jam 5:14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Jam 5:15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.
Jam 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

 

[ufamtobie]

Even if the word used is priest, the RCC was not arround back then. It took a few hundred years before the church was established in any form of it’s current structure.

Hank, You are getting it twisted, It was the Catholic Church that compiled the Bible a few hundred years after Our Lord Resurection and has faithfully preserved it for 2,000 years. The Church was established while Our Lord was on earth. Read (Matthew 16:15-19)

So the priest refered to would have had to have been the Temple priest and that makes no sense as they were against Christ and His teaching.
HankZ

So Hank, what are you saying here,that James who wrote (James 5: 14-15) is not making sense since you say that "IT WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN THE TEMPLE PRIEST AND THESE ARE AGAINST CHRIST AND HIS TEACHING?

Who do you think James Refering too?

Hank, Truth, is that James does Make SENSE the “ELDERS” that James was REFERING too, are the Apostles and their Successors on down to the Local parish Catholic Priest.

Ufamtobie

 

[Syele]

(James 5: 14-15) Is there anyone sick among you? He should ask for the PRIESTS of the CHURCH. They in turn are going to PRAY over him with OIL in the name (of the LORD). This prayer uttered in FAITH will reclaim the one who is ILL, and the LORD will Restore him to Health. IF HE HAS COMMITTED ANY SINS, FORGIVENESS WILL BE HIS.

The Truths are:

If one wants to get married he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one wants to get Baptized he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one want to be healed/forgiven from sickness/sins he/she goes and follows the Example of (James 5: 14-15) sees a Priest of the CHURCH and be FORGIVEN of his or her sins. Catholics do this and Protestants don’t.

Who Truely Marries the couple, Jesus through the Priests, of the CHURCH!

Can we Marry ourselves? NO!

Who Truely Baptizes the People, Jesus through the Priests of the CHURCH!

Can we Baptize Ourselves? NO!

Who Truely HEALS/FORGIVES poeple from their SINS, Jesus, through the Priest of the CHURCH!

Can we have forgivness without going to a Priest? Well, this is something we Catholics don’t have to worry about, for we all go to the Priests of Jesus Christ Church for the FORGIVNESS of our SINS for we take the above Bible Verse litterally. And if I were a Protestant then I will worry! Why? Becasue I would know in my heart that I am not following…(JAMES 5:14-15) and that is to go and see the Priest of the CHURCH for Healing and to have my sins forgiven.

Protestants, Truely the Lord uses His Priests of His Church for the above Sacraments.

God Bless you on your Journey HOME to the Catholic Church.

Ufamtobie

ummm there is nothing in there about marriage or Baptism. It pretty clearly says the Prayer offered in Faith by a righteous man heals, not that church elders (Or Priests) themselves (Presumably the elders/Priests are righteous men) do the healing. It says “anyone who is sick” … “Confess your sins to one another” so how do you get then that we are to confess to elders only?

ok lets break it down more:

Jam 5:14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

Ok so the protestant translation seems to say elders the Catholics say Priests, I really dot see that huge a difference really, the Catholics have Priests as elders of the church Im cool with that.

SO if any one of you gets sick you call to the elders or priests and ask them to pray over you and anoint you with oil in the name of the Lord.

This is pretty straight forward. Or so it seems. the difficult part is determining the audience of the passage… Who is “You” in “Is any one of you sick?” If the you is ONLY elders of the church (as in the disciples) then the whole passage has a different meaning than if the “you” is referencing all Christians. Suddenly there is a choice… Does this mean that if an elder is sick they should go to other elders for prayer and anointing, or does it mean anyone can go to an elder for prayer and anointing? I do believe most Denominations as well as the Catholics allow for anyone in this instance so I will side with the majority… You means anyone who is sick. If someone here has more info on the origin of the word you in this passage I’d like to hear about them.

Jam 5:15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

Obviously the prayer mentioned here is referring to the one in the previous verse, offered by elders for the sick person. But notice what is says makes the sick person well and forgiven… not the person praying but the prayer offered in faith itself. This shows me that the common answer that a rogue priest (one who has no faith) does NOT have the same power as the one who prays in faith.

Jam 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

Ok now we get back to that “You” again. Why would the audience suddenly chage inthe passage? I dont believe it did in such a short span… the you are still all the Christians. It didnt suddenly switch to only the elders. Now its saying that Christians should confess sins to each other! Why would it skip saying hte elders here if it meant specifically the elders? It wouldn’t cause it didnt a couple verses up! So we are to confess to one another and pray for one another… all Christians.

The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Again this could have easily cited only elders but it did not, it cited the Righteous man! Yes we all do hope and pray our elders and Priests are righteous, but sadly they are not all so. Also some people are Righteous and yet not elders of any church. So this is distinctive from commands about elders.

So that is how this one fallible Protestant would explain (James 5: 14-16). I am always open to learning more if I got something wrong, but it’d be a large leap to claim this passage has to do with marriage by Preists…

 

[HankZ]

ufamtobie:
Hank, You are getting it twisted, It was the Catholic Church that compiled the Bible a few hundred years after Our Lord Resurection and has faithfully preserved it for 2,000 years. The Church was established while Our Lord was on earth. Read (Matthew 16:15-19)

So Hank, what are you saying here,that James who wrote (James 5: 14-15) is not making sense since you say that "IT WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN THE TEMPLE PRIEST AND THESE ARE AGAINST CHRIST AND HIS TEACHING?

Who do you think James Refering too?

Hank, Truth, is that James does Make SENSE the “ELDERS” that James was REFERING too, are the Apostles and their Successors on down to the Local parish Catholic Priest.

Ufamtobie

Compiled or wrote? I obviously mistook this for a reasonable discussion. Sorry I’ll let you have your one sided opinion board.
HankZ

 

[Hisalone]

ummm there is nothing in there about marriage or Baptism. It pretty clearly says the Prayer offered in Faith by a righteous man heals, not that church elders (Or Priests) themselves (Presumably the elders/Priests are righteous men) do the healing. It says “anyone who is sick” … “Confess your sins to one another” so how do you get then that we are to confess to elders only?

ok lets break it down more:
Ok so the protestant translation seems to say elders the Catholics say Priests, I really dot see that huge a difference really, the Catholics have Priests as elders of the church Im cool with that.

SO if any one of you gets sick you call to the elders or priests and ask them to pray over you and anoint you with oil in the name of the Lord.

This is pretty straight forward. Or so it seems. the difficult part is determining the audience of the passage… Who is “You” in “Is any one of you sick?” If the you is ONLY elders of the church (as in the disciples) then the whole passage has a different meaning than if the “you” is referencing all Christians. Suddenly there is a choice… Does this mean that if an elder is sick they should go to other elders for prayer and anointing, or does it mean anyone can go to an elder for prayer and anointing? I do believe most Denominations as well as the Catholics allow for anyone in this instance so I will side with the majority… You means anyone who is sick. If someone here has more info on the origin of the word you in this passage I’d like to hear about them.

Obviously the prayer mentioned here is referring to the one in the previous verse, offered by elders for the sick person. But notice what is says makes the sick person well and forgiven… not the person praying but the prayer offered in faith itself. This shows me that the common answer that a rogue priest (one who has no faith) does NOT have the same power as the one who prays in faith.

Ok now we get back to that “You” again. Why would the audience suddenly chage inthe passage? I dont believe it did in such a short span… the you are still all the Christians. It didnt suddenly switch to only the elders. Now its saying that Christians should confess sins to each other! Why would it skip saying hte elders here if it meant specifically the elders? It wouldn’t cause it didnt a couple verses up! So we are to confess to one another and pray for one another… all Christians.

Again this could have easily cited only elders but it did not, it cited the Righteous man! Yes we all do hope and pray our elders and Priests are righteous, but sadly they are not all so. Also some people are Righteous and yet not elders of any church. So this is distinctive from commands about elders.

So that is how this one fallible Protestant would explain (James 5: 14-16). I am always open to learning more if I got something wrong, but it’d be a large leap to claim this passage has to do with marriage by Preists…

All good stuff

 

[Steadfast]

If one wants to get married he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

We do too except we may not call them “priests”.

If one wants to get Baptized he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

We do too except we may not call them “priests”.

If one want to be healed/forgiven from sickness/sins he/she goes and follows the Example of (James 5: 14-15) sees a Priest of the CHURCH and be FORGIVEN of his or her sins. Catholics do this and Protestants don’t.

Actually, we do too except we may not call them “priests”. Not all of course, but taking a more charitable perspective and assuming that the proclamation of the Gospel and the faithful reception of that proclamation brings about the forgiveness of sins, then ALL churches that proclaim the Gospel do this.

In many churches there is a specific portion of the liturgy where forgiveness is proclaimed. In my church the minister says, “And I, as a called and ordained servant of the Word, forgive you all your sins in the Name…etc.”

Because we believe in absolution and the proper administration of the keys.

Who Truely Marries the couple, Jesus through the Priests, of the CHURCH!

Can we Marry ourselves? NO!

Well, even in your church the sacramental act is performed by the couple, not by the priest…but that has been pointed out already.

Who Truely Baptizes the People, Jesus through the Priests of the CHURCH!

Yep, we believe this too.

Can we Baptize Ourselves? NO!

Quite right.

Who Truely HEALS/FORGIVES poeple from their SINS, Jesus, through the Priest of the CHURCH!

Well the Gospel is the saving and forgiving message and the church is its agent. It is proclaimed in Word and Sacrament.

Can we have forgivness without going to a Priest?

Of course you can, even Catholics believe this.

 

[Steadfast]

It probably deserves its own thread but as has been pointed out, the Church does not have “priests” technically speaking; she has elders and deacons.

Priests have to do cultic systems where sacrifice is offered…

The Bible never mentions priests in connection with the NT church, but again, as has also been said, if the RCC wants to insist on calling presbyters “priests” I guess that’s fine…but it’s not really what presbyter means.

 

[Snow]

(James 5: 14-15) Is there anyone sick among you? He should ask for the PRIESTS of the CHURCH. They in turn are going to PRAY over him with OIL in the name (of the LORD). This prayer uttered in FAITH will reclaim the one who is ILL, and the LORD will Restore him to Health. IF HE HAS COMMITTED ANY SINS, FORGIVENESS WILL BE HIS.

The Truths are:

If one wants to get married he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

So do Protestants and Mormons, etc.

If one wants to get Baptized he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

So do Protestants and Mormons, etc.

If one want to be healed/forgiven from sickness/sins he/she goes and follows the Example of (James 5: 14-15) sees a Priest of the CHURCH and be FORGIVEN of his or her sins. Catholics do this and Protestants don’t.

Do Catholics do what you posted from James 5? What kind of oil is used? Do Catholics eschew doctors seeing how their health is restored and sins forgiven?

 

[ChristianKnight]

(James 5: 14-15) Is there anyone sick among you? He should ask for the PRIESTS of the CHURCH. They in turn are going to PRAY over him with OIL in the name (of the LORD). This prayer uttered in FAITH will reclaim the one who is ILL, and the LORD will Restore him to Health. IF HE HAS COMMITTED ANY SINS, FORGIVENESS WILL BE HIS.

The Truths are:

If one wants to get married he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one wants to get Baptized he/she goes to the CHURCH and sees a Priest. Catholics do this.

If one want to be healed/forgiven from sickness/sins he/she goes and follows the Example of (James 5: 14-15) sees a Priest of the CHURCH and be FORGIVEN of his or her sins. Catholics do this and Protestants don’t.

Who Truely Marries the couple, Jesus through the Priests, of the CHURCH!

Can we Marry ourselves? NO!

Who Truely Baptizes the People, Jesus through the Priests of the CHURCH!

Can we Baptize Ourselves? NO!

Who Truely HEALS/FORGIVES poeple from their SINS, Jesus, through the Priest of the CHURCH!

Can we have forgivness without going to a Priest? Well, this is something we Catholics don’t have to worry about, for we all go to the Priests of Jesus Christ Church for the FORGIVNESS of our SINS for we take the above Bible Verse litterally. And if I were a Protestant then I will worry! Why? Becasue I would know in my heart that I am not following…(JAMES 5:14-15) and that is to go and see the Priest of the CHURCH for Healing and to have my sins forgiven.

Protestants, Truely the Lord uses His Priests of His Church for the above Sacraments.

God Bless you on your Journey HOME to the Catholic Church.

Ufamtobie

I

Doesn’t say the word Priests. Sorry buddy.

 

[Rolltide]

Doesn’t say the word Priests. Sorry buddy.

The English word for Presbyter is Priest. They are indeed the same thing. Some translations use the Greek word, and others use the English term, that’s all.

 

[Singinbeauty]

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

I don’t see ANYTHING regarding marriage or baptism in this passage so why the OP included this and started their brow beating of protestants (I am assuming they are catholic with the use of the title ‘priests’) without really knowing what they are talking about… I dunno.

I can say that at my church, if we are sick we can call on the elders of our church who come and pray over us.

“The prayer of the FAITH shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him”

The Lord heals us as the passage states. Not the elders. The Lord forgives them. Not the elders.

I really don’t see where there is confusion about what protestants believe with James 5.

What would you like us to explain?

 

[Henning]

This is James 5:14 from the Catholic NAB,

“Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the **presbyters **of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord.”

no mention of priests

 

[ChristianKnight]

The English word for Presbyter is Priest. They are indeed the same thing. Some translations use the Greek word, and others use the English term, that’s all.

lol, it doesn’t say Presbyter either. It says Elder.

 

[Rolltide]

lol, it doesn’t say Presbyter either. It says Elder.

Here’s an official definition:

Presbyter in the New Testament refers to a leader in local Christian congregations. In modern usage, it is distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest, pastor, elder, or **minister **in various Christian denominations. The word presbyter derives from Greek presbuteros, the comparative form of presbus, “elder”.

Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos which can be translated overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman.

The word deacon is probably derived from the Greek word diakonos which is a standard ancient Greek word meaning “servant”, “waiting-man,” “minister” or “messenger”.

 

[SyCarl]

Here’s an official definition:

Presbyter in the New Testament refers to a leader in local Christian congregations. In modern usage, it is distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest, pastor, elder, or **minister **in various Christian denominations. The word presbyter derives from Greek presbuteros, the comparative form of presbus, “elder”.

Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos which can be translated overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman.

The word deacon is probably derived from the Greek word diakonos which is a standard ancient Greek word meaning “servant”, “waiting-man,” “minister” or “messenger”.

Whatever it may be viewed as equivalent to today does not affect its New Testament meaning, which is not priest.

The Greek word for priest is hiereus, not presbuteros, which is the word James used. This translates as elder. That the English word priest may be derived from the word does not change its meaning in Greek.

So James is saying call the elders, not the priests.

While it may be distinct from bishop in modern usage, this was not the case in the New Testament where in Titus 1:4-8 Paul uses both terms to refer to the same office.