How do Protestants explain (James 5: 14-15)

[ChristianKnight]

Here’s an official definition:

Presbyter in the New Testament refers to a leader in local Christian congregations. In modern usage, it is distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest, pastor, elder, or **minister **in various Christian denominations. The word presbyter derives from Greek presbuteros, the comparative form of presbus, “elder”.

Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos which can be translated overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman.

The word deacon is probably derived from the Greek word diakonos which is a standard ancient Greek word meaning “servant”, “waiting-man,” “minister” or “messenger”.

lol, it doesn’t matter if it refers to another word in another language, if it doesn’t say priest, its not a priest. It is a elder.

 

[Rolltide]

lol, it doesn’t matter if it refers to another word in another language, if it doesn’t say priest, its not a priest. It is a elder.

Actually, the actual word is πρεσβύτερος.

It most certainly DOES matter! One of the biggest problems with the Bible is that of translation. The ACTUAL word is “πρεσβύτερος” (presbuteros) in Greek. So… what word is that in English? Do you read Greek? I don’t. I’m guessing you don’t either.

The answer is… there IS no exact translation, so different people translate it differently. Elder is close, but priest is another word for elder. So is pastor. So is minister. When you translate the Bible into a different language, often, you lose the subtle meanings because there isn’t an exact translation. ALL of those words are correct, in a sense, because they are synonyms.

When you say “It’s not a priest, it’s an elder”, it’s like saying, “It’s not a car, it’s an automobile.” They’re the same thing.

 

[ufamtobie]

Compiled or wrote? I obviously mistook this for a reasonable discussion. Sorry I’ll let you have your one sided opinion board.
HankZ

Hank,

It is “Jesus Christ SIDED” based on FACTS and ON TRUTH! NOT MINE!

As for Compiled or Wrote. Do you know the definition of COMPILED?

Ok, The earlie Chruch Fathers, “COMPILED” which means they “GATHERED” the “WRITINGS” of Matthew, on down to the Devine Revelations of the NEW TESTAMENT and put them into what WE call the New Testament Bible.

Now thanks to these Earlie Church Fathers WHO WERE CATHOLIC the CHURCH that you Protest against!

Ufamtobie

Ufamtobie

 

[ChristianKnight]

Actually, the actual word is πρεσβύτερος.

It most certainly DOES matter! One of the biggest problems with the Bible is that of translation. The ACTUAL word is “πρεσβύτερος” (presbuteros) in Greek. So… what word is that in English? Do you read Greek? I don’t. I’m guessing you don’t either.

The answer is… there IS no exact translation, so different people translate it differently. Elder is close, but priest is another word for elder. So is pastor. So is minister. When you translate the Bible into a different language, often, you lose the subtle meanings because there isn’t an exact translation. ALL of those words are correct, in a sense, because they are synonyms.

When you say “It’s not a priest, it’s an elder”, it’s like saying, “It’s not a car, it’s an automobile.” They’re the same thing.

lol, an elder could have been a jew couldn’t it? Or maybe a wise old man? I have read books on greek mythology and greek warfare based on talking to prophets, who some called elders, they weren’t christians.

 

[BrianH]

Actually, the actual word is πρεσβύτερος.

It most certainly DOES matter! One of the biggest problems with the Bible is that of translation. The ACTUAL word is “πρεσβύτερος” (presbuteros) in Greek. So… what word is that in English? Do you read Greek? I don’t. I’m guessing you don’t either.

The answer is… there IS no exact translation, so different people translate it differently. Elder is close, but priest is another word for elder. So is pastor. So is minister. When you translate the Bible into a different language, often, you lose the subtle meanings because there isn’t an exact translation. ALL of those words are correct, in a sense, because they are synonyms.

When you say “It’s not a priest, it’s an elder”, it’s like saying, “It’s not a car, it’s an automobile.” They’re the same thing.

But…you would agree… that when James was being written there existed a word that is commonly translated priest. There also existed this word that is commonly translated elder or presbyter.
They are two different words.
It matters I think because there is an anachronistic tendency in this translation … “priest”.

 

[Steadfast]

The English word for Presbyter is Priest. They are indeed the same thing. Some translations use the Greek word, and others use the English term, that’s all.

No, the English word for Presbyter is Elder.

It has been argued that “Priest” is an English elision of the Greek word and it may even be so, but even in Catholic bibles the word presbyteros is not translated priest, but *elder, *or, as in the case of the NAB it is left untranslated.

Contrarily, when the word Hieros is used, of the Temple priests, for example, then the word is translated priest because this is in fact a hieros, a sacerdotal intercessor tied to a specific cultic reference.

Now, I realize that you believe your priests do this.

But the Bible knows nothing of it for the church.

 

[LutheranDK]

The English word for Presbyter is Priest. They are indeed the same thing. Some translations use the Greek word, and others use the English term, that’s all.

Not true.
“πρεσβυτέρος” means “elder” in the context of the NT, not “priest”.

 

[LutheranDK]

Actually, the actual word is πρεσβύτερος.

…Do you read Greek? I don’t. I’m guessing you don’t either.

The answer is… there IS no exact translation, so different people translate it differently. Elder is close, but priest is another word for elder. So is pastor. So is minister. When you translate the Bible into a different language, often, you lose the subtle meanings because there isn’t an exact translation. ALL of those words are correct, in a sense, because they are synonyms.

When you say “It’s not a priest, it’s an elder”, it’s like saying, “It’s not a car, it’s an automobile.” They’re the same thing.

Well, I read koiné-Greek…
πρεσβύτερος does not mean “priest”. ἱερεύς does. ἱερεύς is the sacertodal (cultic) priest who carries forth the sacrifices. Since it is RC belief that the priest does this, it would have been obvious (from an RC point of view) that James would have used that word…yet he didn’t. Why?

 

[Jimmy_B]

How do Protestants explain Daniel 13 and 14…

Excellent thread!..Five Stars…BAM!

 

[LutheranDK]

How do Protestants explain Daniel 13 and 14…

Excellent thread!..Five Stars…BAM!

How do RC’s explain Mark 17 and 18?

Was there a point to that question?

 

[Jimmy_B]

How do RC’s explain Mark 17 and 18?

Was there a point to that question?

That’s easy…

The Counsel of Trent, you know, the Roman Catholic Counsel which also addressed the heresies of the Protestants.

The Catholic Church and Catholic Popes approved the Bible, well before the Protestants changed it and removed numerous books and verses…Protestants who did not have access to the original documents (written on papyrus, now lost) were not present during the first translations.

Mark 17 and 18 are not in the KJV Protestant Bible either. The shorter ending of Mark was found in earlier manuscripts, therefore, it is the ending, which was used…

On the other hand, Daniel 13-14 are in a Catholic Bible and not in a Protestant KJV Bible. Daniel 13-14 have always been included in the Catholic Bible.

The Bible is a Catholic Book! The Catholic Church was here before the Bible and the Catholic Church and Catholic Popes decided what went in the Bible, well before there were any Protestants.

Please try again, thank you.

 

[Jimmy_B]

How do Protestants explain Daniel 13 and 14…

And, all of the other changes made to the Bible?

 

[ChristianKnight]

The Bible is a Catholic Book! The Catholic Church was here before the Bible and the Catholic Church and Catholic Popes decided what went in the Bible, well before there were any Protestants.

Please try again, thank you.

I prefer to call the bible a holy book, or a christian book. To limit it to any denomination is rather selfish.

 

[LutheranDK]

That’s easy…

The Counsel of Trent, you know, the Roman Catholic Counsel which also addressed the heresies of the Protestants.

The Catholic Church and Catholic Popes approved the Bible, well before the Protestants changed it and removed numerous books and verses…Protestants who did not have access to the original documents (written on papyrus, now lost) were not present during the first translations.

Mark 17 and 18 are not in the KJV Protestant Bible either. The shorter ending of Mark was found in earlier manuscripts, therefore, it is the ending, which was used…

On the other hand, Daniel 13-14 are in a Catholic Bible and not in a Protestant KJV Bible. Daniel 13-14 have always been included in the Catholic Bible.

The Bible is a Catholic Book! The Catholic Church was here before the Bible and the Catholic Church and Catholic Popes decided what went in the Bible, well before there were any Protestants.

Please try again, thank you.

Your reasoning is only valid if the RC church as it exists today is the original church - which is not at all clear. And so, your reasoning is wandering endlessly in circles.

The Bible is not an RC book, and repeating it endlessly will not make it so.

Please try again, thank you.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Your reasoning is only valid if the RC church as it exists today is the original church - which is not at all clear. And so, your reasoning is wandering endlessly in circles.

The Bible is not an RC book, and repeating it endlessly will not make it so.

Please try again, thank you.

“which is not at all clear.”
**

Says who? And based on what?

Are you arguing that the Roman Catholic Chuch and the Bible did not preceed ALL Protestant denominations and that the Catholic did not put the Bible together?

“The Bible is not an RC book, and repeating it endlessly will not make it so.”
**

YES IT IS…PROVE IT’S NOT!

THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!

Please try again, thank you!

 

[LutheranDK]

“which is not at all clear.”
**

Says who? And based on what?

Are you arguing that the Roman Catholic Chuch and the Bible did not preceed ALL Protestant denominations and that the Catholic did not put the Bible together?

“The Bible is not an RC book, and repeating it endlessly will not make it so.”
**

YES IT IS…PROVE IT’S NOT!

THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!
THE BIBLE IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!

Please try again, thank you!

I am arguing that the Protestant reformation was from the RC church (which is a historical fact), but that this does not mean that the RC church is the original church which compiled the Bible (which is a matter of faith).

And your purile attempt at humour deserves no reply from anyone over the age of 10…

I know for a fact that there are tiny little space aliens living under my couch. Prove me wrong!

 

[Soutane]

I don’t see priest in that verse, the word used is elders. Even if the word used is priest, the RCC was not arround back then. It took a few hundred years before the church was established in any form of it’s current structure. So the priest refered to would have had to have been the Temple priest and that makes no sense as they were against Christ and His teaching.
HankZ

Wishful thinking friend.The Catholic Church was born at Pentecost,the Last Supper and Calvary.Simultaneously as Time does not apply to our Lord.

 

[Soutane]

Your reasoning is only valid if the RC church as it exists today is the original church - which is not at all clear. And so, your reasoning is wandering endlessly in circles.

The Bible is not an RC book, and repeating it endlessly will not make it so.

Please try again, thank you.

Right.It’s A lutheran book A much abbreviated condensed and edited version.

 

[LutheranDK]

Right.It’s A lutheran book A much abbreviated condensed and edited version.

Wrong. It’s a Christian book, which the RC church added to…

 

[Soutane]

Wrong. It’s a Christian book, which the RC church added to…

Twilight zone revisionist history pal.Your buddy Luther almost got rid of James,the Epistle of straw,remember.But cooler heads prevailed.I follow Christ not Luther.Your religion is even NAMED after him.