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House_Harkonnen
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I don’t understand the question. What do you mean by “name names”?
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Annie39
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No never we were pretty much a go to church service read the bible type of church at least in the Lutheran Churches I attended. It was never mentioned. Is it taught in your church that Jesus is still present in communion after the service is over if there is anything left after the service that is.It is called “Mass” in our Confessions and throughout the Book of Concord. Did you read our confessions when you were LCMS? Our mass is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Jesus. Where Jesus body and blood are present that we can take and eat.
Sure. In our synod we don’t call them “bishops”, its a holdover from anti catholic sentiments a few hundred years ago. But we have the same position we call district president. My particular district president is named Jon D. Buchholz.
I read up on John Buchholz he doesn’t seem to acknowledge any bishoprick
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House_Harkonnen
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No never we were pretty much a go to church service read the bible type of church at least in the Lutheran Churches I attended. It was never mentioned. Is it taught in your church that Jesus is still present in communion after the service is over if there is anything left after the service that is.
I read up on John Buchholz he doesn’t seem to acknowledge any bishoprick
I have never been to a Lutheran church like that. I had to read the Augsburg Confession, Luther’s Small Catechism, and the Treatise on the Primacy and Power of the Pope during membership classes. The rest of the Book of Concord was not required but highly recommended.No never we were pretty much a go to church service read the bible type of church at least in the Lutheran Churches I attended. It was never mentioned.
We don’t have an official position. I personally don’t think the real presence persists after the “use” of the sacrament. I know plenty of Lutherans disagree with me.Is it taught in your church that Jesus is still present in communion after the service is over if there is anything left after the service that is.
He might not call it that, but he acknowledges he is a district president.I read up on John Buchholz he doesn’t seem to acknowledge any bishoprick.
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Annie39
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Define “church” as you use it.I don’t understand the question. What do you mean by “name names”?
Hi AnnieDefine “church” as you use it.
Lutherans define The Church as the congregation of believers where the word is preached and the sacraments administered. This is found in the Lutheran Confessions, and it is so sad that you were so poorly catechized when you went to a Lutheran church.
Anyway, This is one reason why we accept the Catholic Church as part of The Church, and find the OP such a non-sequitur. There has been no gap in the Church since Pentecost.
Jon
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Annie39
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Hi JonHi Annie
Lutherans define The Church as the congregation of believers where the word is preached and the sacraments administered. This is found in the Lutheran Confessions, and it is so sad that you were so poorly catechized when you went to a Lutheran church.
Anyway, This is one reason why we accept the Catholic Church as part of The Church, and find the OP such a non-sequitur. There has been no gap in the Church since Pentecost.
Jon
What do you mean by “the word”?
Annie
Two meanings which are, in essense, the same. The word of God - scripture, and Christ, the Word of God as described in John 1Hi Jon
What do you mean by “the word”?
Annie
Jon
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Adamski
Guest
Who decides what am acceptable creed would be, my baptist friends would say none of them and they are christiansThe early church attests that the true faith is expressed in the creeds. That’s why we profess them every Sunday. Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals adhere not to the creeds or the biblical faith that expresses the Trinity, therefore they are not apostolic, nor Christian.
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Edmundus1581
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As always Jon, that’s interesting and thanks for the info!…Anyway, This is one reason why we accept the Catholic Church as part of The Church, and find the OP such a non-sequitur. There has been no gap in the Church since Pentecost.
Jon
You would have to ask a Baptist that question. The early Church developed these creeds and we accept them.Who decides what am acceptable creed would be, my baptist friends would say none of them and they are christians
Jon
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Edmundus1581
Guest
Follow up:Anyway, This is one reason why we accept the Catholic Church as part of The Church, and find the OP such a non-sequitur. There has been no gap in the Church since Pentecost.
I refer to my first post (#20) where I mentioned the Protestant attitudes (to “the gap”) from my background:
*To see this easily, I suggest that you try, at a Protestant study, to bring in any passage from, say, St Benedict or St Bonaventure, or to mention the brave act of any Pope. For some reason St Francis of Assisi is exempted - and I’ll commend them for for that! *
How would this go with Lutherans? If you mention St Benedict, or Pope Leo the Great would it be treated with respect?
My experiences have been similar to those of CaliLobo:
Except that in my experience church history and writings from before 1500 are less than relevant - they treated with suspicion. You might get away with St Ignatius, or Polycarp, or St Francis… but that’s about it.In general though, Evangelical churches do not see much relevance with church history. There continue to be books written by Christian scholars on everything from theology to how to raise your children and manage your finances. Many Evangelicals enjoy reading these new books and discussing them in Bible studies and gatherings. Pastors will even cite them in sermons.
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House_Harkonnen
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I personally wouldn’t care much if my pastor mentioned any of those guys in a sermon. That being said, I never heard Bonaventure even so much as mentioned in a Catholic sermon either, so mentioning him might get some blank stares from the Lutheran congregation. He’s not a name that comes up much.Follow up:
I refer to my first post (#20) where I mentioned the Protestant attitudes (to “the gap”) from my background:
*To see this easily, I suggest that you try, at a Protestant study, to bring in any passage from, say, St Benedict or St Bonaventure, or to mention the brave act of any Pope. For some reason St Francis of Assisi is exempted - and I’ll commend them for for that! *
How would this go with Lutherans? If you mention St Benedict, or Pope Leo the Great would it be treated with respect?
My experiences have been similar to those of CaliLobo:
Except that in my experience church history and writings from before 1500 are less than relevant - they treated with suspicion. You might get away with St Ignatius, or Polycarp, or St Francis… but that’s about it.
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Annie39
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Jon I’m trying to get to a bottom line here.Two meanings which are, in essense, the same. The word of God - scripture, and Christ, the Word of God as described in John 1
Jon
Would you define “scripture”. If you say it is the “word of God” or like I would the written word of God would you please tell me why you believe this. Otherwise I’d be interested in what you would say.
Annie
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Annie39
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What evidence do you have that they were ordained in apostolic succession?I don’t know the answer to those questions. I couldn’t tell you specifically when our bishops became district presidents. It doesn’t matter much to me as they fulfill the same role and are ordained in apostolic succession. Maybe someday we will go back to calling them bishops.
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Annie39
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Who in the early church attested to that the true faith is expressed in the creeds. Please name names.The early church attests that the true faith is expressed in the creeds. That’s why we profess them every Sunday. Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals adhere not to the creeds or the biblical faith that expresses the Trinity, therefore they are not apostolic, nor Christian.
Annie
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House_Harkonnen
Guest
Athanasius, he even put something to that effect in the beginning of his creed.Who in the early church attested to that the true faith is expressed in the creeds. Please name names.
Annie
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Annie39
Guest
Jon, I simply cannot imagine why I would need to read the Lutheran Confessions as a Lutheran I believed in Sola Scriptura. We had bible studies and bible discussion groups. Why on earth would I need anything else? If I did find studying and discussing the bible empty with no power to lead me to object truth I would begin seeking objective truth. And of all things that’s what I did. I discovered much to my amazement that the Catholic Church is the true Christian Church. If it is ever proven to my satisfaction that the Catholic Church does not hold God’s revealed truth, I will leave it but I will never join an heretical sect I’ll just leave and live it up objective truth would be unknowable “eat, drink and be merry”.Hi Annie
Lutherans define The Church as the congregation of believers where the word is preached and the sacraments administered. This is found in the Lutheran Confessions, and it is so sad that you were so poorly catechized when you went to a Lutheran church.
Anyway, This is one reason why we accept the Catholic Church as part of The Church, and find the OP such a non-sequitur. There has been no gap in the Church since Pentecost.
Jon
Annie
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Annie39
Guest
Seems like Athanasius was a Catholic Bishop who didn’t believe in sola scriptura right? He fought against the first sola scriptura folks called the Arians, right? It seems that you don’t believe in Sola Scriptura either right?Athanasius, he even put something to that effect in the beginning of his creed.
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House_Harkonnen
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Now I think you’re sensationalizing.Seems like Athanasius was a Catholic Bishop who didn’t believe in sola scriptura right? He fought against the first sola scriptura folks called the Arians, right? It seems that you don’t believe in Sola Scriptura either right?
Are you really asking these questions in good faith?
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Annie39
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Sensationalizing? How so? And yes thes questions are absolutly in good faith. these are things that I wrestled with myself.Now I think you’re sensationalizing.
Are you really asking these questions in good faith?
Annie
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