The whole “nobody could read the Bible because it was the dark ages and everyone was illiterate and the Catholics burned/chained all the Bibles and that’s why there’s a gap” argument ignores the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire, which had a golden age during the so-called dark ages. It also ignores the Orthodox Churches. When the Orthodox broke off from Rome 500 years before the Reformation, they ditched the Pope but kept everything else. So the Papacy was NOT the cause of the so called corruption/loss of the “original” Church. The Orthodox ditched Latin and went back to Greek even before they tossed the Pope, and they held the Holy Land until the Muslim Caliphate stole it from them, so illiteracy in the Biblical source languages isn’t the cause either. Anyone with half a brain and a decent secular encyclopedia can figure that out.
…So if there is a gap according to you, then please explain why God prayed for unity in doctrine one moment and then let a gap happen for centuries until the King James Bible came along.
So if the CC does not believe any sins are involuntary, why does the priest at a funeral petition God to “forgive his sins whether they are voluntary or involuntary?”Wannano:
Correct. Google “Scrupulous Anonymous”—they’re an apostolate dedicated to answering questions like that.
Of course He can, being omnipotent and all that. He can do anyTHING, but He can’t do evil because evil is not a thing but a privation or lack of good. (I know you know that
— this is for the viewing audience.)Actually,EZweber:
It isn’t a bunny trail when we are considering the topic. Think about it; Lutherans and Anglicans continue and maintain the pray of the early Church of confession and Holy Absolution, an apostolic practice. A Sacrament!
I think that refers to sins of what are called “vincible ignorance,” where the person should have known that what they were doing was wrong in light of the natural law or the availability of revelation. When I say that a sin must be voluntary that includes that. You asked about accidental or unintended sin, which isn’t the same as when we should have known what we did was wrong. Again I’m gonna refer you over to Scrupulous Anonymous who are experts on this area.
Hello MarysLurker, Calvin was firmly in line with Augustinian tradition on the question of double predestination–albiet of the harder supralapsarian stripe, like Luther and the pre-reformation Bradwardine vs. those softer, squishier infralapsarians. [Aside–IMHO, while the infralapsarian position may not do complete justice on the matter, I think the infralapsarian position is likely as far as we can concretely go before getting into assertions beyond what God has revealed to us in Scripture].
This has been said multiple times throughout this thread.
But Calvin would hold that God would also not work good (i.e. make prevenient grace available) in the life of the reprobate so as to give the reprobate a fair shot at salvation. That would be, effectively, a sin of omission on the part of God, which is impossible. It also contradicts 1 Tim 2:3-4. (Again, you know this stuff).
Sources please?
You need to read THIS
The Council of Toulouse
This is anti-Catholic rhetoric which has been disproved many times. Judas was one of chosen 12. It is my speculation that Jesus chose him to show that there will always be sinners who betrayed Him. That from the beginning the Church is full of sinners and betrayers. You seem to think that sinners prove the Church wrong when the opposite is true It seems you have the sad and common opinion that the Pope is to be sinless. You confuse infallibility with impeccability. Your so called irrefutable facts are lies. Your documentation is probably the same as your unbiased historians, non-existent. You should be mindful of not bearing false witness.
Are you refuting the evidence I have listed?
reading your posts, You’re steeped in the hit pieces you use, that drive your rhetoric.hope:
This has been said multiple times throughout this thread.
I have to remind you that it’s not as if I’m alone in my understanding. There’s millions of people that have the same understanding. It feels like when you or anyone claims I have a misinterpretation somehow I’m alone in the universe with these conclusions.
We are at odds on major issues and I don’t expect either side to change.
I don’t consider myself anti catholic in the sense we are to love everyone but I am against a lot of ideals the institution claims. I’m quite positive the pope would consider me anathema but I do not put my faith into man or man made institutions.
Jesus never promised a Judas free Church.
The Church NEVER banned the word of God. If you had proof you’d post it.
The Catholic Church gave us the bible. As far as reading, most people were illiterate. Yet before Luther was even a thought, there were already translations of the bible in German.