How do protestants get to heaven without the Eucharist?

[icamhif]

Then we can truly say ‘one church is as good as another’, can we not? Desire is in part a passion, if we have a fleeting passion are we saved under your universalism?

JoeT

Ron did not imply any such things.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Then we can truly say ‘one church is as good as another’, can we not? Desire is in part a passion, if we have a fleeting passion are we saved under your universalism?

JoeT

Unfortunately, many souls are lost to the eternal punishment of Hell every day. I believe and hope that a majority of souls are saved, but I acknowledge that the number of souls who suffer eternal damnation is almost certainly a large number.

The further one goes away from the Catholic Christian faith, the more difficult is the path of salvation. But the universal salvific will of God means that salvation must be concretely available to all human persons.

 

[JoeT777]

Unfortunately, many souls are lost to the eternal punishment of Hell every day.

My question was not related to the loss of souls. It was a plain and simple question; is ‘one church is as good as another’? Or is it that our ‘fullness of faith’ that is a superior ‘knowledge’ and having this superiority allows us to sup with them and they with us? We can say it makes little difference, their sacrifice has no reality; knowing “that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one.”

Yet, not everyone has a strong conscience, and how long will it be before the meat of a symbolic sacrifice begins to replace the real presence? And what of the weak, St. Paul says, “For if a man see him that hath knowledge sit at meat in the idol’ s temple, shall not his conscience, being weak, be emboldened to eat those things which are sacrificed to idols”? St. Paul asks, “Now when you sin thus against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.”

Is it not the natural inclination to ask ‘is one Church is as good as another’ if we commune at their table, which sacrifice do we participate in? And if we believe there is one and Only One True Church of Jesus Christ then why do we see our salvation in them?

So, I ask again “is one Church as good as another”?

I believe and hope that a majority of souls are saved, but I acknowledge that the number of souls who suffer eternal damnation is almost certainly a large number.

The further one goes away from the Catholic Christian faith, the more difficult is the path of salvation. But the universal salvific will of God means that salvation must be concretely available to all human persons.

My comments were related to the 19th century religion called Universalism. In what direction does one go to ‘get away’ from the Catholic Church? Are you saying that what is ‘Divine’ is relative to the way an individual accepts the Divine? Isn’t the Divine a reality?

JoeT

 

[Ron_Conte]

No, one religion is not as good as another, one Church is not as good as another.

But that assertion does not imply that non-Catholic Christians or non-Christian believers cannot be saved. It is just a more difficult path for them. They don’t have all seven Sacraments. They do not have as fine an understanding of faith and morals. They lack the many benefits of Catholicism.

Then again, not every Catholic goes to Heaven. We are all fallen sinners, and there are many difficulties for us along the Way of the Cross.

 

[HelenRose]

If only a Catholic priest can change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ at the mass, and I know that only a Catholic priest can, and didn’t Christ say in the bible that if we do not eat of his flesh and drink of his blood we cannot enter into His Kingdom? Then how are protestants suppose to get to Heaven? I know that other people of other denominations do go to heaven. Does Jesus simply excuse them because of their ignorance? I’m speaking of those who really don’t understand or know that. This is probably an ignorant question. lol sorry if it is. I am just trying to learn since I had been away from the catholic church for probably 50 yrs. until about 5 yrs. ago. I had forgotten almost everything I learned in Catholic school. I’m catching up pretty quick though.

This particular question comes up from time to time. The answer can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Part one: Article 9: Paragraph 847:

“Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

In a nutshell. “I don’t have the answer to that question. Only God can answer that question. With the grace of the Holy Spirit, one day we may be in Heaven and will be able to ask Him.”

 

[flower_lady]

This isn’t really a good answer. I know what you mean, but it’s not quite right.

Let me explain:

The Eucharist is Jesus Christ Himself, the Light of the World, the Redeemer of Man, God the Son, the source of all knowledge and wisdom. Ignorance of any kind is not a substitute for Christ, who is the very opposite of ignorance. The Eucharist is the source of the Church’s power, authority etc. because it is Christ Himself.

The Protestant who through no fault of his own, yet sincerely seeks God and the true Faith, will, if he cooperate with the graces of God, be brought to salvation, but not without faith, hope and charity. Since they must possess charity to be saved, they must also obey the Divine commandments cf. If you love me, keep my commandments (Jn. 14:15). Now Christ Himself commands us to partake of the Eucharist: Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of man, you shall not have life within you (Jn. 6:53). So, this Protestant, ignorant by no fault of his own, must therefore, at least implicitly will to receive this Sacrament.

So, the Protestant who is invincibly ignorant of the Eucharist will not be condemned for not receiving the Eucharist, but that invincible ignorance will not save him either. Invincible ignorance is no substitute for faith, hope, charity, the sacraments, the Church, Christ etc.

I hope this helps,
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

But I thought only a catholic Priest could change the bread and wine into the true body and blood of Christ, therefore, what they consider communion is only bread and grape juice not the body and blood of Christ. So what is they truly believe that what they receive is the body and blood of Christ can they be saved by ignorance.

 

[flower_lady]

I think you’ve misidentified me somehow, I’m not ‘Dude’. I’ll pass your comments along to him if I can figure out who he is…

It seemed to me that you were arguing that there is a thing called Baptism by desire saying, " Water Baptism is the ordinary means of salvation, but the Church also teaches that we can be saved without water Baptism (ie, Baptism of Desire/Blood or invincible ignorance). "[see http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12919842&postcount=40]

. Further the implications seemed to be Catholicism held a OSAS view in the sacrament of Baptism.

Lumen Gentium does not imply, or state, that those ‘not knowing’ the Gospel or the Church (the invincibly ignorant) are saved. It says Divine Providence is not denied for help in being saved; a help for which we pray for. Furthermore, should one remain invincibly ignorant of the Gospel and the Church the implication is that if it indeed were to be known, those who are invincibly ignorant would indeed become Catholic. This is far from the norm and in my estimation a difficult thing. Yet, failing this knowledge doesn’t make the invincibly ignorant ‘saved’ (by any definition of being ‘saved’). An individual who is invincibly ignorant and yet has a formed conscience equivalent to the faithful partakes in the sacraments by the desire found in a love of God, not by the rights imparted ignorance. [Cf 1 Corinthians 3:13-14]

As to the Protestants we can’t say they don’t know the Gospel. There is no ignorance of God’s Truth that can be claimed. They cite scripture first and take names later. The name ‘Protestant’ is derived from protest and schism. You can’t be a Protestant and not know that you protest God’s Holy Institution, the Catholic Church; after all it is part of their founding principles, in some cases coming before faith itself. And, with few exceptions the sacraments are understood in Protestantism as mere symbols, there is no real grace imparted, no real change of heart or mind. The Protestant does not believe that there is a ‘real presence’ of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist - if he were to ever come to that realization he couldn’t remain Protestant in good conscience.

JoeT (not Mr. Dude)

Amen, but many are brainwashed by there own leaders. They are deliberately told or skipping parts of the bible verses because they are in competition with each other. Who is going to get the most parishioners or the most fame for themselves. Also I have told many of my friends and family( or shall I say tried to and they simply won’t hear me. I have offered to show them proof in the bible, on the computer, articles, take them to a priest and talk about it and the refuse me for no reasonable explanation. I wonder why, I think they simply are afraid they will be proven wrong. I find many of them to become angry when I even mention the Catholic Church. I don’t begin to understand.