How do Protestants get to Heaven?

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I feel the things I listed are key to salvation - faith in Christ, the state of your heart, and trying to follow and live as Jesus taught.

I don’t see any one denomination as really accomplishing these things better than the other in real life.

I know people who don’t even go to church or affiliate with a denomination that do these so much better than many Sunday regulars.
 
Markie_Boy said:
I feel the things I listed are key to salvation - faith in Christ, the state of your heart, and trying to follow and live as Jesus taught.

I don’t see any one denomination as really accomplishing these things better than the other in real life.

I know people who don’t even go to church or affiliate with a denomination that do these so much better than many Sunday regulars.
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I think that you are kind of comparing apples and oranges here.

Individuals accomplish salvation (through the grace of God) Churches do not.
A Church provides structure, discipline, teaching, a sounding board, forum for debate and resolution of various questions and concerns. This is quite different.
Salvation is based on how the individual believes and acts.

I agree that there are people who never go to church yet are more Christian in their actions than many who go to church every Sunday.
Yet the opposite is also true.
There are many good examples of Christian life in “Sunday regulars” and many examples of bad Christian life outside of “Sunday regulars”.

Peace
James
 
I agree with you totally James.

I think some of what I am learning is what the church is and isn’t.

It seems so simple until you get into what each side says is right - but it seems neither side denys that faith in Christ, true dedication in your heart, and trying to follow His teachings are what make a difference.

It seems the less we focus on essentials, the more we divide.

I have been going to mass weekly, and learning more. I was really surprised to find how much division there is in the Catholic church too - some are excited for progress, some want to go back to pre-Vatican I, some say you can only confess to a priest, others direct to God, and it goes on and on. Some of the disagreements really are on big things too.

I just want to focus on essentials, and doing what I am supposed to. What is it we should really fight against?
 
Markie_Boy said:
I agree with you totally James.

I think some of what I am learning is what the church is and isn’t.

It seems so simple until you get into what each side says is right - but it seems neither side denys that faith in Christ, true dedication in your heart, and trying to follow His teachings are what make a difference.

It seems the less we focus on essentials, the more we divide.

I have been going to mass weekly, and learning more. I was really surprised to find how much division there is in the Catholic church too - some are excited for progress, some want to go back to pre-Vatican I, some say you can only confess to a priest, others direct to God, and it goes on and on. Some of the disagreements really are on big things too.

I just want to focus on essentials, and doing what I am supposed to. What is it we should really fight against?
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There are always disagreements among people. But the church teaches one thing in regard to your examples. That’s important to remember. The church teaches the way it is and some people choose not to listen, but that’s on them not the church.
 
Markie_Boy said:
I agree with you totally James.

I think some of what I am learning is what the church is and isn’t.

It seems so simple until you get into what each side says is right - but it seems neither side denys that faith in Christ, true dedication in your heart, and trying to follow His teachings are what make a difference.
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Amen my friend. 👍
It seems the less we focus on essentials, the more we divide.
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I think that this is a really fine statement.
The more we focus on the wrong things, the more easily the evil one can split us apart.
I have been going to mass weekly, and learning more. I was really surprised to find how much division there is in the Catholic church too - some are excited for progress, some want to go back to pre-Vatican I, some say you can only confess to a priest, others direct to God, and it goes on and on. Some of the disagreements really are on big things too.
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What you describe here is what makes me so happy that we have a magisterium and a Catechism. For me, it doesn’t really matter what others “want to do” - The Church has provided the teachings and I’m good with that.

That said, I like to be as broad as possible in understanding different views and paths. I love the EF mass and I love the OF mass. Some are drawn to the more Charismatic approach while others are drawn to the more mystical / contemplative side of the faith.

What I love about the Church is it’s great variety.
I just want to focus on essentials, and doing what I am supposed to. What is it we should really fight against?
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I’m not sure how to answer this because I tend to focus more on what I should be fighting for rather than against.
That said - our struggles are primarily internal and there we must fight against the “deadly sins” of pride, sloth, greed, gluttony, wrath, envy, and lust.
Conversely we struggle to interiorly grow in the seven heavenly virtues: chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, forgiveness kindness and humility.

Peace
James
 
Now that I read it - I really don’t like my own statement of “What do we fight against”.

I guess if we are working for what is right, that’s the best way to work against what isn’t.

I agree too - one of Satan’s greatest weapons is dividing us to fight against each other.
 
Markie_Boy said:
Now that I read it - I really don’t like my own statement of “What do we fight against”.
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Yes, we are fighting for the dignity of every person in every place. It’s an uphill battle in our modern world in which money is what matters most, but it’s one worth fighting.
I guess if we are working for what is right, that’s the best way to work against what isn’t.
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Which is why the teachings of the Church, which are Christ’s own teachings, need to be known and practiced. 🙂
I agree too - one of Satan’s greatest weapons is dividing us to fight against each other.
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This is what Jesus prayed for–that we all might be one. This is what the Apostles taught, lived and died for–that we all might be one. In reading St. Paul’s Epistles in particular we see that men were trying to put in their oar right from the beginning. Heresies reared their heads very early on. It’s why the Church has held councils down through the centuries (and still convenes them as needed) to affirm what is true teaching and what isn’t. The very first Council of Jerusalem is recorded in Acts 15.

One faith and one baptism are essential elements or everything unravels as far as unity is concerned. It’s only the fact that God’s is so merciful that he operates outside the visible Church–because he wishes that none be lost. But once we know that the Church founded on Christ is his one, holy, catholic (universal), and apostolic church, as cited in the Creeds, then we are responsible to join it, if we aren’t already in full union with her.
 
Markie_Boy said:
I feel the things I listed are key to salvation - faith in Christ, the state of your heart, and trying to follow and live as Jesus taught.

I don’t see any one denomination as really accomplishing these things better than the other in real life.
Click to expand...
Adding some details to that


  1. *]The Catholic Church isn’t a denomination. It is THE one and only Church that Jesus builds with Peter as the leader Matthew 16:13-19 , John 21:16-18 . The pillar and foundation of truth [1 Timothy :15](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy+3:15&version=RSVCE) , .Therefore, it is His Church that received all of Jesus promises. No other. In fact division / schism from His Church is condemned as is the one who remains divided Romans 16:17-20 , Galatians 5:19-21 , Division διχοστασίας dichostasia = dissension / sedition same word in both Rom 16:17. And Gal 5:19…. Who is it that really gave this teaching and warning and consequence that Paul writes here? It’s Jesus John 16:12-15 . Therefore the one who judges the living and dead, is warning us in advance how He will judge those who divide from His Church
    *]THIS Church can’t fail. If it did, and it won’t, but for purposes of hypothesis, say it did, then what is also admitted, Jesus failed. If Jesus failed here, where does that leave all His other promises He made? Everything collapses.
    *]The following quote is often attributed to Augustine but I haven’t found where he said it. I only mention this quote because it’s a good one even if Augustine isn’t the one to give it. “If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” We all know those who cherry pick from scripture…right?
    *]We are asked to persevere in faith. One really doesn’t have to persevere in something unless that something we’re asked to persevere in, has degrees of difficulty to it…right? Why else would Jesus say, Luke 9:23
    *]As an aside, Re: scripture, Augustine DID say the followig 🙂 reference provided For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual men attain in this life, so as to know it, in the scantiest measure, indeed, because they are but men, still without any uncertainty…The consent of peoples and nations keep me in Church, so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave it in charge to feed his sheep, down to the present episcopate… For my part, I should not believe the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. So when those on whose authority I have consented to believe in the gospel tell me not to believe in Manicheus, how can I but consent?” Augustine, Epistle of Manichaeus 5,6 (A.D. 397). Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental

    your question obviously is the $64,000 question. And in this case, takes more than a short answer.
    MB:
    I know people who don’t even go to church or affiliate with a denomination that do these so much better than many Sunday regulars.
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    I do too.

    But consider the following as well
    forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10796857&postcount=17
 
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