How do Protestants rationalize King Henry VIII, and his selfish non-spiritual motivation?

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Me? I’m Frodo to GKC’s Gandalf…

Seriously, GKC is Gandalf to me.

Want proof? If you ask him about history, nukes, Russian Migs, Pearl Harbor, Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, or his buddy Roy, you’ll get an answer lickety-split. Ask him about the Atonement, theology, or the Bible and he keeps telling me this:

***You cannot pass! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass! ***

He’s really stubborn!
JohnnyReb said:
The female of the house-my mom- has been watching it and wants me to watch it with her because I am supposed to be an expert on all things religious…but I am NOT about the English reformation. I am learning as I go. She wants me to answer questions about what is going on. Of course the best answers I have I got from your’s a Gurney’s posts, not kidding…but I won’t tell her that because it makes me sound smart.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Me? I’m Frodo to GKC’s Gandalf…

Seriously, GKC is Gandalf to me.

Want proof? If you ask him about history, nukes, Russian Migs, Pearl Harbor, Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, or his buddy Roy, you’ll get an answer lickety-split. Ask him about the Atonement, theology, or the Bible and he keeps telling me this:

***You cannot pass! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass! ***

He’s really stubborn!
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Oh. Now I remember you.

GKC
 
GKC said:
If you want one book that does the best job of dealing with Henry, it’s J. J. Scarisbrick’s HENRY VIII. It’s one reason I can sound smart, sort of, to myself, on that subject, anyway.

GKC
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Thanks. I am desperate to read something…anything…that is NOT related to nursing this summer.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Me? I’m Frodo to GKC’s Gandalf…

Seriously, GKC is Gandalf to me.

Want proof? If you ask him about history, nukes, Russian Migs, Pearl Harbor, Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, or his buddy Roy, you’ll get an answer lickety-split. Ask him about the Atonement, theology, or the Bible and he keeps telling me this:

***You cannot pass! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass! ***

He’s really stubborn!
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So he’s like a Google search but better
 
JohnnyReb said:
Thanks. I am desperate to read something…anything…that is NOT related to nursing this summer.
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If you do find it (and it’s the best single book I know of on Hank), see if you spot something ironic in it, given something I post here repeatedly.

GKC
 
He’s cantankerous and grouchy if you ask him anything non-history related or philosophical…

Not too long back I asked him about some Biblical question of mine. His answer?

You are far too eager and curious for a hobbit. Most unnatural.

Then I asked him why he isn’t Catholic? Reponse: ***Fool of a Took. Throw yourself in next time, and rid us of your stupidity. ***

So I just decided to stick with history when conversing with GKC. Much easier and safer! :eek:😛
JohnnyReb said:
So he’s like a Google search but better
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nhylan said:
Here is your disconnect. Henry didn’t start the Church of England either, St. Peter did. Henry caused the initial split between Rome and Canterbury not the creation of anything new. That’s why your not getting answers that satisfy your questions. Your frame of reference doesn’t match up with the Anglicans who will answer this question for you. unless you change your frame of reference you won’t get a satisfying answer. There is no Roman Catholic answer that makes sense in that frame of reference since the Roman church considers us as schismatic. Either accept our answer as it is, from the Anglican perspective or we need to move on to something else to discuss because we will run in circles otherwise.
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I agree CofE came from St. Peter originally but had Henry VIII views fitted into it and the various Archbishops of Canterbury and monarchs since (same as Popes have changed the catholic church over the years) But why did you choose to follow Henry VIII’s interpretation? I know the answer will be different for different people, im just curious

And as a different question… why is the head of CofE Canterbury? I’m not just meaning coz its a really scummy little town (i live like 15 miles away from canterbury cathedral) but wasnt the head of the CofE originally Henry VIII, who lived in Greenwich at the time?
 
PbloPicasso said:
Just curious. Did you hire a contractor to tear out you existing patios. I’m just saying. You might want to check under it.😃
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😃 he actually moved house the same week we met each other… I’m starting to think i should check his old garden just in case
 
xihha said:
I agree CofE came from St. Peter originally but had Henry VIII views fitted into it and the various Archbishops of Canterbury and monarchs since (same as Popes have changed the catholic church over the years) But why did you choose to follow Henry VIII’s interpretation? I know the answer will be different for different people, im just curious

And as a different question… why is the head of CofE Canterbury? I’m not just meaning coz its a really scummy little town (i live like 15 miles away from canterbury cathedral) but wasnt the head of the CofE originally Henry VIII, who lived in Greenwich at the time?
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The Archbishop of Canterbury is the Primate (senior bishop) of the CoE. This runs back to St. Augustine of Canterbury, 1400 years ago, more or less The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the CoE, by Act of Parliament, 1559 . Neither means much, these days.

GKC
 
GKC said:
The Archbishop of Canterbury is the Primate (senior bishop) of the CoE. This runs back to St. Augustine of Canterbury, 1400 years ago, more or less The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the CoE, by Act of Parliament, 1559 . Neither means much, these days.

GKC
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See now I’m really confused… how was there an Archbishop of Canterbury 1400 years ago when the church of englands like 600 years old and Canterbury is in the archdiocese of Southwark? And wasn’t St Augustine a monk who made King Ethelbert of Kent Catholic? I’m not arguing, just really confused
 
No one has of yet answered a VERY simple question. I am a lapse Catholic I will admit, and I never thought in my entire life I would openly highlight the Vatican, but at least they have a meeting once in while to openly address issues confronting the Catholic Church, it may take them a few centuries, true, but they do it. I naively expected the Protestants or religions that came forth from the Reformation (those that don’t claim to be Protestant, however the Catholic Church would differ on that opinion) to have had the same type of scruples. But, no. What I see is denial, side stepping, dismissing, and attempts to twist and re-shape history to their liking, non of which earn my respect. Not to mention to this immature behavior of carrying on personal conversations on this thread in an attempt to trivialize this thread, but given the character of the answers I’ve received I am not at all surprised.

I will say this discussion has increased my devotion to the Catholic faith, I will not longer date Protestants (include those who deny they are but that the Catholic Church deems as such) unless they expressed they would okay with Catholicism being the religion of our children and our home should things become serious, and I will be extremely cautious when befriending Protestants. In fact I will more likely befriend atheists and agnostics over Protestants, the reason being is that atheists and agnostics have analyzed, confronted, and are able to give well thought out answers to the difficult questions as to why they hold their belief system. And this I can respect, and sometimes even admire. Oddly, enough this discussion has turned a lapse Catholic into a proud Catholic, and one that will become more active and devote as the years go on. And to think all this wouldn’t have happened if somebody had just answered the question like an intelligent, educated, adult
 
Alexander_Roman said:
In actual fact, Protestants don’t have to rationalize anything about King Henry VIII. Henry was a schismatic Roman Catholic who hated Martin Luther. Henry VIII carried his decima rosary with him throughout his life, prayed the Psalms of the Divine Office and even toyed with the idea of entering into union with Rome on a number of occasions.

It was the Spanish emperor who had invaded Italy at the time of Henry VIII’s troubles with his marriage to Queen Catherine of Aragon and who had tied the pope’s hands with respect to the possibility of granting Henry an annulment.

Few in England at the time thought the pope would deny Henry his annulment . . . The pope could not for obvious reasons.

And we know the rest of the story.

Alex
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*At one time Henry was a devout Catholic and even wrote a very spiritual book. But then he got mean and meaner. Her confiscated monasteries and Churches and later persecution of priests began and people could not practice their Faith. Shakespeare and his family experienced this persecution which is veiled in some of his works.

Whenever I visit England and visit the Churches I remember what was done to the Catholic Church. Yes and I too wonder why would anyone belong to a church whose founder was an apostate.
 
*You are absolutely correct. One should rather say “non-Catholic” which would be more accepted.🙂
 
GKC said:
It’s things like this that basically made me decide to stop explaining the history of Henry’s Great Matter, the system of impediments/dispensations/decrees of nullity as developed, by the 16th century, the difference between the concept of a divorce and a decree of nullity, the political situation in Europe at the time, esp. post Pavia, what the Levitical Prohibition was, what an impediment of the justice of public honesty was, how state and dynastic marriages were routinely treated, etc, etc. I can no longer see the point. Ten years of posting history is likely enough (though there’s a thread on this page where I’m doing it again).

I will recommend the best single book on Henry, to explain what was going on, though. J. J. Scarisbrick’s HENRY VIII. Excellent. And Scarisbrick is RC.

GKC
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*GKC - you must not forget that you discourse with many different individuals on these forums and you are bound to repeat yourself. Its like us Catholics explaining the futility of Sola Scriptura over and over and over again as well as many other non-Catholic beliefs like Sola Fide and so on.

We have to be prepared to explain and re-explain because each time another person comes on the thread who has no understanding of these things.🙂
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Yes. It’s flimsy logic. Catholics believe that even crooked, egocentric, sinful popes are guided in their See by Christ as Peter’s Chair. Why can God work through crooked popes (most are not crooked, mind you) but not through a crooked King? 😛 Cyrus of Persia in the Bible was God’s instrument but boy he was not the nicest guy. King David was a weasle often times, too! 😃
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*We do not judge the Apostles by Judas!

Jesus appointed Peter as his shepherd here on earth despite his failings. Peter denied Jesus 3 times even after witnessing the Transfiguration! Jesus said “Get behind me Satan” after he had appointed Peter as his representative here on earth.

Jesus understood us humans.

God bless
Cinette:)*
 
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