How do protestants view true Christianity before the reformation?

[d_floyd77]

St. Francis comes to mind, but there are many more. The people who honestly devoted their lives to the gospel, giving up everything, embracing poverty, etc. etc. etc., all embraced the Real Presence.

Why should I buy into the realative new view of Christianity when the heroes already have set an example?

 

[Nickkname]

So…is this about how Protestants view Christianity before the Reformation, or is it baiting?

 

[d_floyd77]

So…is this about how Protestants view Christianity before the Reformation, or is it baiting?

I think the question speaks for itself.

 

[JonNC]

St. Francis comes to mind, but there are many more. The people who honestly devoted their lives to the gospel, giving up everything, embracing poverty, etc. etc. etc., all embraced the Real Presence.

Why should I buy into the realative new view of Christianity when the heroes already have set an example?

d_floyd,

The conclusion of the Augsburg Confession:

Only those things have been recounted whereof we thought that it was necessary to speak, in order that it might be understood that in doctrine and ceremonies nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic. For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.

The writers of the confession worked dilligently to use the ECF’s to support their confession of faith. They used them as the examples. They believed that the Church (at that time) had taken on errors and innovations not found in scripture or the ECF’s. Obviously, a matter of disagreement.

As for your final question, I see no need for you to buy into my tradition or any other. You seem confortable where you are, and blessed by the Holy Spirit.

Jon

 

[Della]

I think the more telling statement in your quote, Jon is this:

For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.

If they believed it impossible that there was any doctrine within the Catholic Church that needed to be opposed, then why make such a statement or why break from the Church in the first place?

On such issues congregations have been splitting and splitting and splitting ever since. But, that’s a topic for another thread.

d_floyd77, what I learned in the Assemblies of God was what a good many Evangelicals believe–that the “true” Church subsisted within European society but could not raise their heads for fear of being burned at the stake. That is what passes for Church history within some Protestant sects. St. Francis is regarded as one of these “true” Christians who just couldn’t let go of his Catholic beliefs (at best) or as delusional (at worst), for they like his spirituality but not his Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think the more telling statement in your quote, Jon is this:

If they believed it impossible that there was any doctrine within the Catholic Church that needed to be opposed, then why make such a statement or why break from the Church in the first place?

On such issues congregations have been splitting and splitting and splitting ever since. But, that’s a topic for another thread.

d_floyd77, what I learned in the Assemblies of God was what a good many Evangelicals believe–that the “true” Church subsisted within European society but could not raise their heads for fear of being burned at the stake. That is what passes for Church history within some Protestant sects. St. Francis is regarded as one of these “true” Christians who just couldn’t let go of his Catholic beliefs (at best) or as delusional (at worst), for they like his spirituality but not his Church.

it is my impression that they desire everything we have, but the Church that Jesus built. impressive.

"Lord to whom should we go? for you have the words of eternal life."

 

[TriuneUnity]

If they believed it impossible that there was any doctrine within the Catholic Church that needed to be opposed, then why make such a statement or why break from the Church in the first place?

It was their contention that the doctrines they were opposing were not the doctrines of the Church Catholic and therefore were ungodly doctrines which crept in through human invention and tradition.

d_floyd77, what I learned in the Assemblies of God was what a good many Evangelicals believe–that the “true” Church subsisted within European society but could not raise their heads for fear of being burned at the stake. That is what passes for Church history within some Protestant sects. St. Francis is regarded as one of these “true” Christians who just couldn’t let go of his Catholic beliefs (at best) or as delusional (at worst), for they like his spirituality but not his Church.

I agree with this. If you want a good laugh, read some “history” books like the Trail of Blood and other wacko sectarian versions of what occurred prior to the Reformation.

 

[Della]

It was their contention that the doctrines they were opposing were not the doctrines of the Church Catholic and therefore were ungodly doctrines which crept in through human invention and tradition.

I understand. I don’t agree with them on that point, but I understand. Discussing it further would take the thread off topic. We could start a new thread, if you’d like.

I agree with this. If you want a good laugh, read some “history” books like the Trail of Blood and other wacko sectarian versions of what occurred prior to the Reformation.

Yes, also Fox’s Book of Martyrs, which I read when in the AoG and believed absolutely true at the time, to my shame.

 

[TriuneUnity]

I understand. I don’t agree with them on that point, but I understand. Discussing it further would take the thread off topic. We could start a new thread, if you’d like.

Fire away! It’s usually incredibly complicated but I am game

Yes, also Fox’s Book of Martyrs, which I read when in the AoG and believed absolutely true at the time, to my shame.

It was a good piece of propoganda. The nice thing about that one is it actually does mention the ancient martyrs of the faith as well as during the Reformation, so there is much truth in it. Unfortunately, it is horribly biased and considers it a fact that everytime the Church of Rome excommunicated someone it was the equivalent of boiling them in oil.

 

[Della]

it is my impression that they desire everything we have, but the Church that Jesus built. impressive.

"Lord to whom should we go? for you have the words of eternal life."

I’ve read that many an Evangelical church is adopting more and more of the rites of the Church which they once denounced as “mere man-made ritual”. It’s only natural that people revert to solid worship in place of emotionalism and enthusiasm, which they have to constantly keep up in order to maintain interest in their services. I’m speaking of those who claim they have no rites or form of worship, which is clearly not the case, if one looks at the way they conduct their services in the same way, Sunday after Sunday. People can’t help forming church services according to some rite–it’s a part of being human.

To keep this on topic, it was the same during the Reformation. Most splinter groups had services very close to the Catholic Mass with an altar and crosses and holy water, etc… Only splinters from the first splinters threw out the form of the Mass for preaching and perhaps some singing, stripping their meeting places of all reminders of the Catholic faith of their ancestors.

 

[Publisher]

The same way as after the Reformation. Those who have been regeneerated by the work of the Holy Spirit through faith in God and have been joined to the Body of Christ through the Holy Spirit by His Baptism.

 

[Della]

The same way as after the Reformation. Those who have been regeneerated by the work of the Holy Spirit through faith in God and have been joined to the Body of Christ through the Holy Spirit by His Baptism.

That’s the spiritual answer, but it’s not what happened historically. It’s certainly not all I was taught in my AoG Church History class at an AoG Bible college.

 

[elvisman]

My answer to the question would be:
"It depends on which splinter you’re talking about."

There are some denominations that believe in baptismal regeneration, some that believe in the real presence, some that believe in the indissolubility of marriage and so on.

Sadly, the list grows every day.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Della:

I’ve read that many an Evangelical church is adopting more and more of the rites of the Church which they once denounced as “mere man-made ritual”. It’s only natural that people revert to solid worship in place of emotionalism and enthusiasm, which they have to constantly keep up in order to maintain interest in their services. I’m speaking of those who claim they have no rites or form of worship, which is clearly not the case, if one looks at the way they conduct their services in the same way, Sunday after Sunday. People can’t help forming church services according to some rite–it’s a part of being human.

Excellent point, Della.

Besides, the liturgy is far, far truer to Scripture than anything you’ll see in a charismatic or neo-evangelical church.