How do Save my Mother?

[MichaelTDoyle]

Hi John,

The best way to save your Mother from religion is to sit down and read scripture with her.

Example.

Romans 5

Concordant Literal New Testament
.18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life’s justifying.

King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

NIV
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men

English Standard Version
18Therefore, as one trespass[e] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[f] leads to justification and life for all men.

Youngs Literal Translation
18So, then, as through one offence to all men [it is] to condemnation, so also through one declaration of `Righteous’ [it is] to all men to justification of life;

American Standard Version
18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.

The only reason any of us are here is because God put us here… we did not come to some sort of pre birth arrangement with him of our own violation.

Your not currently a believer John because you have not yet been called by God… you will be… like the Bible says…each in their order.

Your time is perhaps just not yet… your Mum needs to see the above scripture however… they are obviously not speaking about it in her Church.

It may give her peace to know that God is the one who has already Justified all men in his sight… Salvation is sooner or Later for all… not never at all for some.

Peace

That is not Christian teaching. Universalism is not what Jesus taught.

[12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
[14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
[15] and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Even if this is given a symbolic interpretation, it seems to indicate not all are in the Book of Life.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…Understandable she does not want me to suffer, although she knows that we all suffer to some degree, in our own way and at our own time. I am ok with thinking that one of us is wrong in our thinking, but I do not think it is good that my mother fears so much of the consequences of MY beliefs. If I had it my way (and obviously I do not), I would take the fear she feels for her son away from her, and not because I want to take things (not even a belief) from her, rather because I do not wish her to suffer in this way. It is not ironic that we both desire the same non-suffering existence for each other, after all we are related. I think it may have more to do with the love we share with/for each other, and not that we want to change each others thinking that makes it hard on both of us.

Neither you nor your mother desires that the other suffer. Very rational.

God suffered in order to save the ones He loved from suffering. He didn’t want us to suffer either.

Why should I believe in a self destructive God?

He’s not a “self destructive God”. I don’t want you to believe in a self destructive God, because that wouldn’t be Who God is. God is God. You select stories from the Bible that you do not understand and draw false conclusions about the nature of God. God did not “destroy Himself” rather, He allowed Himself to suffer and die for the sake of those He loved. That is the nature of love. He who loves much, suffers much for the sake of the beloved.

 

[Lee44]

those are some good answers

 

[Nan_S]

Nan S, no I will not share that passage with my mother, it may make her sad here on Earth until she dies, but thank you for setting my mind to ease.

Of course you know your mother far better than I. Yes, I understand completely how this may cause her pain on earth. That being the case, you may simply abridge it and reassure her that the Lord has promised she will be completely filled to overflowing with the joy of Heaven.

My daughter has also proclaimed herself to be an atheist, so I’m more intimately familiar with this situation that I’d like to be. If you’re open to talking about it, I’m curious to know why you chose atheism.

I only need to know how ‘omnipotence’ and ‘violence’ (fear/vengeance/jealousy) both are attributes of God, how to reconcile this apparent inconsistency, and then somehow be able muster enough faith to overcome my thinking that if God were to exist why I should then believe in spite of this inconsistency? Frankly, I do not want to believe in a God that orders, condones, or even merely allows violence. It is not irrational for one to hold the belief that violence is always wrong, because we are human and have human experiences, but it is irrational to believe in a God who sent His son to be killed for our sins as a non-violent God, because He is supposes to be perfect, right?

Regarding the discrepancy between violence and God, let me put another spin on it:

Dark is neither the opposite of light, nor an adverse feature of light. Dark is the absence of light.

Cold is neither the opposite of heat, nor an adverse feature heat. Cold is the absence of heat.

Evil and violence are neither the opposite of good and God, nor an adverse feature of good and God. Evil and violence are the absence of good and God.

God requires that we perfect ourselves by giving up our selfishness and embracing perfect loving generosity. To that end, the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the first portion of their harvest and the best of their flocks, not because God needed them but because we needed to learn to be unselfish.

The situation on earth had fallen to the point where sin-offerings had taken on the nature of traffic fines. No sacrifice of animals nor crops was great enough to compensate for our wickedness, nor for the wickedness of future generations. Nothing we could do would be enough.
(continued)

 

[Nan_S]

(continued)

Therefore, God sent Jesus in human form to put an end to blood sacrifice by showing a new way - the complete and total offering of everything we are and everything we have. By this most perfect of sacrifices salvation has been brought to the world, and the need for blood sacrifices has been ended for all times. Jesus has taken upon himself our penalty.

Is 53:4-12 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand; he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Jn 15:7-17 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. **You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. This I command you, to love one another. **

For more on reconciling God and the violence in the world, you can click on this link and read this section in the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding Peace and War. In part,

2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war. However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”

Nan