How do the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian (and Saint Thomas) Churches View One Another?

[NovusAugustus]

Have any of the above Churches begun dialogues with one another? Would any members of the above Churches ever commune with one another? Are relations friendly in cities like Alexandria where there is a Greek Orthodox Patriach/Pope and Coptic Orthodox Patriarch/Pope? Are the two in “competition”?

Also, some of the sources I have read about these communions indicate that the Christological disagreements that motivated the original schisms were not based so much in theology as they were in linguistics and nationalist factors. Would any current members substantiate this belief? In other words, to what degree are these communions rendered incompatible by the fact that the EO accepts Chalcedon, the OO is miaphysite, and the Church(es) of the East are Nestorian?

And finally, do these Churches have any position on the possibility of salvation in the other communions? Is there anything like Extra eclessiam nulla salus in these communions?

I apologize if any of the wording in this post is offensive or wrong–I don’t want to be insensitive.

 

[Cybophonia]

We are not in communion one with the other.

 

[Trebor135]

We are not in communion one with the other.

The OP probably knows that already.

 

[NovusAugustus]

We are not in communion one with the other.

Okay, fair enough. Are any of the communions’ hierarchies interested in talking about the possibility of returning to full communion?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I tend to think of the Oriental orthodox as the closest to us on matters theological and practical.

 

[Trebor135]

I tend to think of the Oriental orthodox as the closest to us on matters theological and practical.

I agree with you when you say theological, though would like to ask what you mean by practical.

Interestingly, don’t the Orientals actually emphasize the legal aspect of Christ’s passion a lot more than us Byzantines?

 

[Peter_J]

The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox have very friendly relations with each other (although they aren’t in full communion). Neither of them have such friendly relations with the ACoE (or with the Roman Communion for that matter, or with any protestant group).

 

[dzheremi]

Have any of the above Churches begun dialogues with one another?

There have been sporadic dialogues between the OO and EO unofficially since the 1960s, and more official dialogues since the 1980s. See the following website for more information on their history and content: orthodoxunity.org

Would any members of the above Churches ever commune with one another?

Never with the Nestorians, but there are limited instances of intercommunion allowed for pastoral reasons between Copts and Greeks in Alexandria proper. This is due to the high number of Coptic-Greek intermarriages in the Patriarchal territory, but does not apply outside of it, where for all intents and purposes such marriages do not happen. A deacon in my church who is from Alexandria tells me that the children of such marriages generally consider themselves Copts, too, so I am not sure how much Greek identity is preserved among EO in Egypt outside of places like St. Catherine’s monastery in the Sinai (I have met and talked with some monks from there, and they are very, very Greek and into being Greek; it was kind of uncomfortable and weird for me, honestly).

Are relations friendly in cities like Alexandria where there is a Greek Orthodox Patriach/Pope and Coptic Orthodox Patriarch/Pope? Are the two in “competition”?

Competition? No, certainly not. The Greeks are very few, even in Alexandria, relative to the Copts. There are only about 300K Greek Orthodox in Egypt proper. Many more outside of Egypt, in fact (in places like Kenya, South Africa, etc). But even all the EO in the entire continent of Africa wouldn’t outnumber the Copts in Egypt alone, who are anywhere from 8 million (or roughly 10% of Egypt’s total population; the most commonly cited figure, perhaps) and 12 million, conservatively (some Coptic advocacy groups in the diaspora put their population at 15 million or more in Egypt, but I think that is wishful thinking).

Also, some of the sources I have read about these communions indicate that the Christological disagreements that motivated the original schisms were not based so much in theology as they were in linguistics and nationalist factors. Would any current members substantiate this belief? In other words, to what degree are these communions rendered incompatible by the fact that the EO accepts Chalcedon, the OO is miaphysite, and the Church(es) of the East are Nestorian?

I would personally not agree with that, but EO or CoE (or even other OO) might see things differently. As far as I know, the only other active or semi-active OO poster here besides myself is Anastasia, who is Armenian Orthodox. Maybe if she shows up, she can either agree or disagree with me.

And finally, do these Churches have any position on the possibility of salvation in the other communions? Is there anything like Extra eclessiam nulla salus in these communions?

The answer to the first is no; the answer to the second is yes. There are many statements from people within the Coptic Orthodox Church, anyway (can’t really speak for others) that make it very clear that salvation is through the Church, not outside of it. Some are controversial in how far they go (e.g., H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy, who seems to be particularly difficult for many), but they all have the same ultimate point: Orthodoxy is the true faith that leads to salvation, and other things are not.

 

[NovusAugustus]

There have been sporadic dialogues between the OO and EO unofficially since the 1960s, and more official dialogues since the 1980s. See the following website for more information on their history and content: orthodoxunity.org

Never with the Nestorians, but there are limited instances of intercommunion allowed for pastoral reasons between Copts and Greeks in Alexandria proper. This is due to the high number of Coptic-Greek intermarriages in the Patriarchal territory, but does not apply outside of it, where for all intents and purposes such marriages do not happen. A deacon in my church who is from Alexandria tells me that the children of such marriages generally consider themselves Copts, too, so I am not sure how much Greek identity is preserved among EO in Egypt outside of places like St. Catherine’s monastery in the Sinai (I have met and talked with some monks from there, and they are very, very Greek and into being Greek; it was kind of uncomfortable and weird for me, honestly).

Competition? No, certainly not. The Greeks are very few, even in Alexandria, relative to the Copts. There are only about 300K Greek Orthodox in Egypt proper. Many more outside of Egypt, in fact (in places like Kenya, South Africa, etc). But even all the EO in the entire continent of Africa wouldn’t outnumber the Copts in Egypt alone, who are anywhere from 8 million (or roughly 10% of Egypt’s total population; the most commonly cited figure, perhaps) and 12 million, conservatively (some Coptic advocacy groups in the diaspora put their population at 15 million or more in Egypt, but I think that is wishful thinking).

I would personally not agree with that, but EO or CoE (or even other OO) might see things differently. As far as I know, the only other active or semi-active OO poster here besides myself is Anastasia, who is Armenian Orthodox. Maybe if she shows up, she can either agree or disagree with me.

The answer to the first is no; the answer to the second is yes. There are many statements from people within the Coptic Orthodox Church, anyway (can’t really speak for others) that make it very clear that salvation is through the Church, not outside of it. Some are controversial in how far they go (e.g., H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy, who seems to be particularly difficult for many), but they all have the same ultimate point: Orthodoxy is the true faith that leads to salvation, and other things are not.

Thanks, this is all very interesting. I pray that St. Mark will watch over the Coptic Church as Egypt endures political turmoil…may our brothers in Christ there be protected from extremists and secularists alike.

 

[dzheremi]

I’m not sure how big an influence secularism is in Egypt these days (the days of the Wafd and Saad Zaghlul are long gone, unfortunately), but thank you for your prayers, Novus Augustus.