I have to hand it to Parker, it is not easy to take on a room full of Catholic Christians. I think he has done an admirable job of defending Mormon doctrine. I think if there is anything we can celebrate it is the fact that Mormonism continues to follow many of the historic moral teachings of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church. Though we don’t see eye to eye on every moral teaching (Mormonism still does not defend life in EVERY circumstance) we can pray together that our churches will grow closer in at least this.
Without stirring the pot too much, I do wonder how Parker, or any Mormon for that matter, fails to see how LDS theology paints a much weaker God than the theology of Catholicism. According to Mormon beliefs [and the Bible teachings on the subject, the devil] can triumph over the Church, both in the Roman Empire, and in the Americas with the failing of the Nephites. The Catholic Church would teach that no matter how corrupt or evil man might become, the power of evil will never prevail against the truth of Christ and his Church. No matter what you say Parker, …
This begs the question: is the Mormon Church superior to the Church established by Jesus Christ and the Twelve Apostles? Either it is, which puts your God in a very precarious position of not being capable of keeping his promises, or it isn’t, which implies that there may just be a Church superior to the one you subscribe.
It also begs the question: Can Mormonism suffer ANOTHER Great Apostasy?
Thoughts???
H2O Plyer2,
Since I don’t agree with your logic at all, I don’t feel the need to answer your questions, other than to note that Daniel really did have a vision and really was told that the stone cut out of the mountains without hands would someday fill the earth, meaning that there will not be “another Great Apostasy”.
That would be because communication is better, there is less contention, there is greater willingness for unity in the faith through the atoning grace of the Savior and the light of His love staying in the hearts of the people despite opposition from the outside; there is greater understanding of the principles of the gospel including the power given through temple ordinances so that Isaiah’s prophecies about Zion being a place of refuge and safety are fulfilled, and because the people sent to the earth for the end of times were foreordained to come at their appointed time with a fervent desire to find, to know and to uphold the truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ in their fullness as described in the Bible.
As far as the strength of God’s plan of salvation in giving people what they want through their deep-down desire and free will choice, here are some general estimates about the inheritances (degrees of glory) in the hereafter, then you can come back with a reply about the kinds of numbers your theology reflects by comparison:
If approximately 20 billion people have lived on earth up to now, then of those perhaps 75-100 million will live or have already lived to find the fullness of the gospel and make the full covenants for full covenant blessings. From those, an estimate would be that there would be 500 million among their ancestors who will desire the full gospel covenants offered to them through their desires and through their descendants teaching them in the spirit world after those descendants arrive there. Another 500 million young children out of the total population can be estimated to have died before age eight or so, yielding 1,075,000,000 people. During the Millenium, a conservative estimate is that another 70 billion persons will be born, and that of those a fair estimate is that at least 60 billion will “grow up without sin unto salvation” and have the full gospel covenants, yielding 61,075,000,000 out of 90,000,000,000 total who lived on the earth at some point–over 67.8% exalted children of God, out of those who chose to come to this earth and didn’t choose against Jesus Christ in their pre-mortal life.
Of the remaining 28,925,000,000 that chose against exaltation or didn’t know about the opportunity, a fair estimate is that 9 billion born during the early Millenium, plus 10 billion who didn’t know about Jesus Christ or knew very little about Him and thus are judged on a different standard based on their choices of loving others given the light they had given to them, yields 19 billion. Add to that 5 billion who can be assumed to have chosen repentance during their life to a sufficient extent that they receive the Terrestrial glory, yields 24 billion. I have no way of estimating how many actually will choose against the Savior so rebelliously that they become sons of perdition, but could estimate that number to be, say, 500,000 including those who rebel at the very end of the Millenium.
That leaves 4,425,000,000 who would suffer the pains of “eternal torment” during the thousand years until they finally do bow the knee and confess that Jesus is their Christ also, and receive a Telestial glory.
So, in summary:
67.5% exalted to live with Heavenly Father and be like the Son of God in their glorified state, receiving a joint throne with Him. Another 0.36% (estimated) in Celestial glory, but not exalted because they didn’t choose marriage.
26.66% receiving the glory and joy of the Terrestrial kingdom.
4.917% receiving the glory of the Telestial kingdom, with greater glory than this present earthly existence, and the presence of the Holy Ghost in their lives.
0.56% having rebelled into Outer Darkness, being cast out there with the devil and the fallen angels.
That sounds like a very strong “success rate” to me, plus the all-important thing is that everyone had their free will choice and sought what they deep-down desired with all their heart.
“Blessed are they … that seek him with the whole heart.” (Psalm 119:2)
