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zaffiroborant
Guest
You manufactured some amusing numbers there Parker. Thanks for the chuckle.
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pablope
Guest
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ParkerD
Guest
JHow,
So are you saying that John 6:35 is an “easy” saying that would have been considered by all those Jews as “easy”–or in other words in our use of language, a “piece of cake”?
Are you saying that what Jesus described in John 6:35 is never hard for anyone in the world, not for the Jews nor for anyone else the world over, from the beginning of time to the end of time in our world?
Also, are you saying that Jesus didn’t know the meaning of the words “living bread”, or in other words “living Manna” “which came down from heaven”? Or that He confused the meaning in His own teaching?
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aquabatix
Guest
I will answer first since you asked me first.
ParkerD,
First, thank you for taking this question completely out of the context in which we were discussing it and making the words of scripture sound ridiculous.
NO, of course that is not what I am saying. The quote referring to Jesus’ teaching as a “hard teaching” is there to indicate that of course it is what it exactly says it is, a “hard teaching” as in difficult to understand.
This is why those disciples stopped following the Lord. If it was an easy teaching (ie merely a symbol) they would not have left and stopped following Jesus. So, NO OF COURSE NOT, it was not a “piece of cake” as you put it, and it still is not. It is a teaching that takes prayer, contemplation, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But just because it wasn’t a “slam dunk” easy teaching, doesn’t mean it was not true; which was the point of showing that the Real Presence in the Eucharist is what Jesus was referring to.
Your last question is without point or merit and does not deserve a response. Jesus is Lord and certainly smart enough and strong enough to know the meaning of His own words and keep His Church together as He is not a liar either. :dts:
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ParkerD
Guest
Aquabatix,I will answer first since you asked me first.
ParkerD,
First, thank you for taking this question completely out of the context in which we were discussing it and making the words of scripture sound ridiculous.
NO, of course that is not what I am saying. The quote referring to Jesus’ teaching as a “hard teaching” is there to indicate that of course it is what it exactly says it is, a “hard teaching” as in difficult to understand.
This is why those disciples stopped following the Lord. If it was an easy teaching (ie merely a symbol) they would not have left and stopped following Jesus. So, NO OF COURSE NOT, it was not a “piece of cake” as you put it, and it still is not. It is a teaching that takes prayer, contemplation, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But just because it wasn’t a “slam dunk” easy teaching, doesn’t mean it was not true; which was the point of showing that the Real Presence in the Eucharist is what Jesus was referring to.
Your last question is without point or merit and does not deserve a response. Jesus is Lord and certainly smart enough and strong enough to know the meaning of His own words and keep His Church together as He is not a liar either.
Here is John 6:35–
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
I think we’re not even talking about the same thing, so I agree that to discuss Jesus’ teachings in John 6 is pointless. I was talking about “he that cometh to [Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God] shall never hunger; and he that believeth on [Jesus Christ] shall never thirst.”
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aquabatix
Guest
Yes, we must be talking about two different things. In 35 He does say that, and it inspires murmurs about Him coming from heaven since they knew His earthly parents. But Jesus elaborates on this to explain that He truly IS the bread of life:
Jhn 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Jhn 6:48 I am the bread of life.
Jhn 6:49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
Jhn 6:50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.
Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
Jhn 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
Jhn 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
Jhn 6:54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Jhn 6:56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
Jhn 6:57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
Jhn 6:58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”
Jhn 6:59 This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Caper’na-um.
Jhn 6:60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”
Jhn 6:61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this?
Jhn 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.
Jhn 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Jhn 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.
Jhn 6:67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?”
This is the teaching that is not about “free food” and caused them to stop following Him.
But I do agree with you, it is not an easy teaching. But, since when is being a Christian easy?
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Telstar
Guest
It always amazes me how LDS can read a very simple passage in the Bible and come up with a meaning for it that’s from way out in left field. Then, at the same time, will jump through hoops to explain away the same kind of simple statement made by one of their ‘prophets’, as if it didn’t mean what it plainly says. This little ‘mathematical theory’ (that’s no doubt supposed to be ‘logical’, and make him look ‘smart’) is just another perfect example of their convoluted logic at work.
I must admit that when I read it, last night, at first I was completely dumfounded by the amount of thought that had to go into making something like that up.
Then, the only thing I could do was 
at the sheer thought of poor Parker sitting there, desperately trying to come up with an ‘impressive’ looking formula that could prove that the LDS will be the hands down ‘winner’ in the end, as if salvation was some kind of sporting event and the churches are the competing ‘teams’. (I’m sure he’d make a great bookie. I wonder if he lives in Vegas?)Their entire focus is to do whatever is necessary, not only to try to prove to others that their ‘doctrines’ and the BoM are true or even plausible, but just to try and hold onto their own beliefs in the face of the real truth. It’s such a pathetically sad state of mind for someone to have to live in, when you think about it, but I still couldn’t keep myself from
at all the thought that had to go into it. Maybe it was just a copy/paste of someone else’s ‘theory’. Either way, it was hilarious.Thanks, for the great giggle, Parker.
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BartBurk
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catholic-rcia
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(Has to be placed in the proper context Parker.The rest of His words helps)
Parker
Take the time to visit my page here and read off it.
utahmission.com/pages/Mass_Explained.html
Receiving Holy Communion is why I became Catholic. It is the most spiritual time one can witness if in the right disposition. I am not always there when I receive (sin). It was at that table that my own eyes were opened many years ago. All of a sudden I wanted to be in that line. It just hit me. Then two years later I finally was able to receive Christ in such a profound and personal way.
Right now we have a Utah State Professor going through the journey to become a member of the body of Christ. Tuesday night we spent an hour in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel in silence. After which Richard said “I though I was ready to be baptized a year ago, and then receive Eucharist. But know I know I was not ready. I did not have the hunger or the understanding that I have now for it.
You see what good is Holy Communion if one does not know Jesus? Would you get married on the first date? Or would you take the time to get to know each other? To fall in love. A few lessons do not give the potential personal relationship with Christ justice.
A women named Lori who became Catholic about 3 years ago made a comment while she was learning about the Catholic Church. She was still attending the LDS Sacrament meetings with her husband at this time. She said she knew the left over communion in here church was just thrown away. It was when she started to understand the Holy Eucharist that she became saddened to tears when she saw this practice again. It was a hunger for Jesus, along with the desire to receive Holy Communion that helped Lori on her courageous path to becoming Catholic. Her whole family LDS, her husband and her children Lori unlike many really did pick up that cross in order to follow Him. It almost cost her everything. Or so it appeared that way for awhile. This is just one story out of my 13 years here in Utah. It is common in many who come to our Lords table. It is a hunger and a desire to be closer to Jesus in such a personal way. I myself could not explain what happens at Mass during the consecration. But I do live it, and it is very transforming. Not of this world!
“We cannot separate our lives from the Eucharist; the moment we do, something breaks. The Eucharist involves more than just receiving; it also involves satisfying the hunger of Christ. He says “come to me”. He is hungry for souls. Nowhere does the Gospel say: “Go Away” but always “Come to Me”….The Eucharist is connected with the passion. If Jesus had not established the Eucharist we would have forgotten the crucifixion….To make sure that we do not forget, Jesus gave us the Eucharist as a memorial of His love.”
…………Mother Teresa
utahmission.com/pages/Mass_Explained.html
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h2oplyer7
Guest
Great website RCIA! I bookmarked it.
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BartBurk
Guest
That lady’s experience was my experience as well. I respect what LDS are trying to do when they try to follow the commandment regarding the Lord’s Supper. They are doing the best they can with their understanding. But as a Catholic I have experienced something much deeper than I ever experienced with the LDS sacrament.
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Miriam1947
Guest
And Parker you’re right. Unfortunately, I think you are thinking of this earth. You know going out to dinner, having a BBQ, having a couple of beers with the guys.
Okay maybe not the beer.
Your spirit, your soul, will not hunger, will not thirst. You will have completeness. That’s Christ living in us. We have faith, we believe.
It is the gift of Christ, body, blood, soul and divinity, that we receive at every Mass when we receive the Eucharist.
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ParkerD
Guest
Miriam,
So I can tell you think I am missing out, whereas I can distinguish the difference between the fulfillment of John 6:35 and of Isaiah 55:1-3 and what I see being described.
Fine–just different. I assure you I have found that living Bread and that living Water of life described by the Savior, and it brings a fullness of joy and peace which will never be dissuaded–not even by all the well-meaning comments or by the attempts to override free will choice with who knows what (logic?) .
Peace.
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catholic-rcia
Guest
Dear ParkerMiriam,
So I can tell you think I am missing out, whereas I can distinguish the difference between the fulfillment of John 6:35 and of Isaiah 55:1-3 and what I see being described.
Fine–just different. I assure you I have found that living Bread and that living Water of life described by the Savior, and it brings a fullness of joy and peace which will never be dissuaded–not even by all the well-meaning comments or by the attempts to override free will choice with who knows what (logic?) .
Peace.
Listen to this man, listen to it until it ends. About ten minutes. Measure him as you will. Especcilaly when he speaks about the Eucharist. God Bless
youtube.com/watch?v=W8RMvmrheE0&feature=related
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zaffiroborant
Guest
What attempts to override “freewill choice”?Miriam,
–not even by all the well-meaning comments or by the attempts to override free will choice with who knows what (logic?) .
Peace.
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smirknoff
Guest
Parker’s soul will thirst for beer? Who uses beer for the Eucharist?And Parker you’re right. Unfortunately, I think you are thinking of this earth. You know going out to dinner, having a BBQ, having a couple of beers with the guys.
Okay maybe not the beer.
Your spirit, your soul, will not hunger, will not thirst. You will have completeness. That’s Christ living in us. We have faith, we believe.
It is the gift of Christ, body, blood, soul and divinity, that we receive at every Mass when we receive the Eucharist.
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Miriam1947
Guest
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h2oplyer7
Guest
If there is one thing I am happy of is that the choice of my becoming Catholic was truly easy. Though my family are all Christians, they do not care for the Catholic Church. Yet, they supported me and showed up to my Confirmation and we continue to pray together. I can only imagine the hurdles of someone such as Parker who is probably apart of a very loving LDS family, and has found great peace and happiness with his religion. Surely, to abandon this on mere apologetics is not easy.
Parker, I trust you place your faith in Jesus Christ, and continue to defend your beliefs by entering into conversations with us Catholics. I want you to know that if you ever find a pull towards the Catholic Church, God will be with you. Though you will no doubt be lonely for some time, the Holy Spirit will not let you go and will be your comfort. For long after this universe passes away, and all that is in it is destroyed, your reward will be far greater than many of us who have had it easier than you.
Catholicism is not merely about sophisticated theology and arguments, it is about truth, and not all truth comes from logic. Logic may come from truth, but the truth of the Catholic faith endures in an even deeper mystical sense, despite the shambles of us mere mortals. Judge a religion by the best it has to offer. No other religion in the world offers such great examples of virtue than the Saints of the Catholic and Orthodox Church (yes I use those as one).
We are only messengers on this website, and probably poor ones as that at times. Continue to defend your faith, but always open yourself up to the notion that perhaps the knowledge passed to you might not be the whole truth. Read the works of the Saints. Read the Dark Night of the Soul, the Imitation of Christ, Confessions, and so many other wonderful “testaments” of Catholic faith. Read them, and then decide whether any mystics or theologians in your church come near their complete abandon.
Parker, I trust you place your faith in Jesus Christ, and continue to defend your beliefs by entering into conversations with us Catholics. I want you to know that if you ever find a pull towards the Catholic Church, God will be with you. Though you will no doubt be lonely for some time, the Holy Spirit will not let you go and will be your comfort. For long after this universe passes away, and all that is in it is destroyed, your reward will be far greater than many of us who have had it easier than you.
Catholicism is not merely about sophisticated theology and arguments, it is about truth, and not all truth comes from logic. Logic may come from truth, but the truth of the Catholic faith endures in an even deeper mystical sense, despite the shambles of us mere mortals. Judge a religion by the best it has to offer. No other religion in the world offers such great examples of virtue than the Saints of the Catholic and Orthodox Church (yes I use those as one).
We are only messengers on this website, and probably poor ones as that at times. Continue to defend your faith, but always open yourself up to the notion that perhaps the knowledge passed to you might not be the whole truth. Read the works of the Saints. Read the Dark Night of the Soul, the Imitation of Christ, Confessions, and so many other wonderful “testaments” of Catholic faith. Read them, and then decide whether any mystics or theologians in your church come near their complete abandon.
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Miriam1947
Guest
@ h2oplyer7
I love the Imitation of Christ.
I am a co-owner of a Catholic bookstore and have sold many copies of the Imitation of Christ. One of my customers came into the store one day (she has bought several copies) and told me how hard this was. She was almost afraid to give it to young Catholics because of what this book teaches us.
She is such a good person and does not want to scare away young people. Truly, young people want Truth. Really makes you think. Open any page and you find your own shortcomings. (and God knows I have plenty of them)
Great, great, book.
I love the Imitation of Christ.
I am a co-owner of a Catholic bookstore and have sold many copies of the Imitation of Christ. One of my customers came into the store one day (she has bought several copies) and told me how hard this was. She was almost afraid to give it to young Catholics because of what this book teaches us.
She is such a good person and does not want to scare away young people. Truly, young people want Truth. Really makes you think. Open any page and you find your own shortcomings. (and God knows I have plenty of them)
Great, great, book.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
What attempts?
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