How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?

[Nacho45]

So nacho, let’s cut to the chase, what are you saying? What is your message to the masses of heathens? I’m tired of your dance steps. Give us your final vision of what you expect the politicians to do? Name those who will be damned. Call out the Christians who will burn in hell because they do not follow your vision of the way. And then let’s be done with it.

There is no cutting to the chase with this. I spent several years with my nose deep in politics and American history. There isn’t enough time or space on this forum to explain how messed up and unconstitutional the USA has become. And, this isn’t a political thread even if I wanted to go down that path. I’ll just say this about modern American politics and politicians. It’s being done wrong. What I expect them to do is what their positions were created to do, nothing more.

Oh, I don’t dance…no rhythm.

What is my vision of the way? I am simply explaining what the Catholic Church teaches and addressing historical American political policies. Maybe they are someone else’s vision.

 

[frobert]

huffingtonpost.com/linda-robertson/just-because-he-breathes-learning-to-truly-love-our-gay-son_b_3478971.html

I’m actually going to try to answer the question.

To clarify, I am actually now Anglo-Catholic, which I know to many here is not the same as Roman Catholic, but the beliefs regarding gay marriage are the same for this church.

This post best explains why. Especially this: "Though our hearts may have been good (we truly thought what we were doing was loving), we did not even give Ryan a chance to wrestle with God, to figure out what he believed God was telling him through scripture about his sexuality. We had believed firmly in giving each of our four children the space to question Christianity, to decide for themselves if they wanted to follow Jesus, to truly own their own faith. But we were too afraid to give Ryan that room when it came to his sexuality, for fear that he’d make the wrong choice.

Basically, we told our son that he had to choose between Jesus and his sexuality. We forced him to make a choice between God and being a sexual person. Choosing God, practically, meant living a lifetime condemned to being alone. He would never have the chance to fall in love, have his first kiss, hold hands, share intimacy and companionship or experience romance."

Why indeed, all the posts about gay marriage? This bothers me a lot about this forum. There are not tons of posts about marriage after divorce, which Christ speaks out against as in I have not read any posts that read “my brother is on his second “marriage”, can we still take the kids and spend Thanksgiving with him”. Jesus speaks up about giving to the poor on many many occasions and I don’t read “Uncle George is very shallow, and never gives anything away, thinks poor people are lazy, should we still expose our kids to him”

Adultery is wrong. It is legal. Being a single parent by choice is not giving a child a mother and a father, that is legal. Getting married and divorced and remarried is a sin, yet not illegal. Pre marital sex is legal. Shacking up is legal. Being a stripper is legal. I actually find it a little creepy that so much energy is focused on gay marriage as opposed to these other issues. If we really wanted to protect society, why is this the huge issue at hand?

Gwendolen,

Thank you for posting and the link. I found the story heart wrenching with many of the same things I went through in trying to find reconciliation with the RC church. I don’t think you will get many responses to your post as many people here though well intentioned are unable to deal with emotions and try to escape into the abstract much the same way that Ryan tried to escape into drugs.

I was going to write more but this post is and should remain about Ryan. I hope that everyone here will read the post and the article and attempt to respond with their heart.

Again thank you for heartfelt post.

 

[Gwendolen]

Gwendolen,

Thank you for posting and the link. I found the story heart wrenching with many of the same things I went through in trying to find reconciliation with the RC church. I don’t think you will get many responses to your post as many people here though well intentioned are unable to deal with emotions and try to escape into the abstract much the same way that Ryan tried to escape into drugs.

I was going to write more but this post is and should remain about Ryan. I hope that everyone here will read the post and the article and attempt to respond with their heart.

Again thank you for heartfelt post.

Wow, I truly expected an argument. Thanks for your response. I almost didn’t post, because I didn’t want to debate. A lot of times, when people post " why do people think x?" it’s because they want folks to come out of the woodwork, so they can find the right words to win an argument, prove them wrong. I promised myself, the OP asked “why”, I will tell him, and that will be it, I will have answered the question, but I am not going to enter a heated debate.

Thanks for being brave enough to tell of your personal struggle on this forum. Because Ryan and his family did not seem to be RC, I was not sure if the experience for a gay person who is RC would be similar, but your response suggests it might be.

 

[PRmerger]

I actually find it a little creepy that so much energy is focused on gay marriage as opposed to these other issues. If we really wanted to protect society, why is this the huge issue at hand?

I think it’s a 'huge issue" only because gay-“marriage” activists have made it a “huge issue”.

There isn’t much in the news vis a vis divorce and re-marriage activists wanting recognition from the Catholic Church…

 

[estesbob]

Gwendolen,

Thank you for posting and the link. I found the story heart wrenching with many of the same things I went through in trying to find reconciliation with the RC church. I don’t think you will get many responses to your post as many people here though well intentioned are unable to deal with emotions and try to escape into the abstract much the same way that Ryan tried to escape into drugs.

I was going to write more but this post is and should remain about Ryan. I hope that everyone here will read the post and the article and attempt to respond with their heart.

Again thank you for heartfelt post.

So morality is based on emotion?

 

[kanrok]

I think it’s a 'huge issue" only because gay-“marriage” activists have made it a “huge issue”.

There isn’t much in the news vis a vis divorce and re-marriage activists wanting recognition from the Catholic Church…

Indeed.

I find it creepy that it is a subject of debate.

 

[livingwordunity]

So morality is based on emotion?

It is according to those on the left. All of their arguments are based on emotional appeals. Notice when one is talking how many times they say “I feel”.

 

[estesbob]

It is according to those on the left. All of their arguments are based on emotional appeals. Notice when one is talking how many times they say “I feel”.

It is very sad when the sins of a loved one pulls people away from the Faith

 

[GEddie]

It is according to those on the left. All of their arguments are based on emotional appeals. Notice when one is talking how many times they say “I feel”.

And yet, our LORD was bigger-hearted than all of them combined, but was never afraid to call sin “sin!”

ICXC NIKA

 

[Gwendolen]

So morality is based on emotion?

Were you able to see the link (that this post you were responding to was based on?)

You don’t have to agree with it… I don’t need to debate it. But the whole point was that the Christian parents with a gay son were trying to base their response to him, not on emotion, but guided by the word of God. They were describing their experience in doing so.

You may not reach the same conclusion they did, but they certainly went into their experience very much praying and guiding their son towards a life of chastity, even though it is hard, and sacrificial. It really is worth reading if you couldn’t get to it.

 

[estesbob]

Were you able to see the link (that this post you were responding to was based on?)

You don’t have to agree with it… I don’t need to debate it. But the whole point was that the Christian parents with a gay son were trying to base their response to him, not on emotion, but guided by the word of God. They were describing their experience in doing so.

You may not reach the same conclusion they did, but they certainly went into their experience very much praying and guiding their son towards a life of chastity, even though it is hard, and sacrificial. It really is worth reading if you couldn’t get to it.

I didn’t read the link.I was responding to other posters comments. I think perhaps you should start a new thread about how parents should react if their child claims to be a homosexual and use that link as a basis. How we interact, as Catholics, with homosexuals is not related to the topic at hand-can a Catholic licitly support so called homosexual marriage.

 

[frobert]

So morality is based on emotion?

This is an excellent question for another topic. What is uppermost in my mind and heart is the tortured feelings of Ryan’s mother for her lose.

 

[frobert]

I didn’t read the link.I was responding to other posters comments. I think perhaps you should start a new thread about how parents should react if their child claims to be a homosexual and use that link as a basis. How we interact, as Catholics, with homosexuals is not related to the topic at hand-can a Catholic licitly support so called homosexual marriage.

I see it as being on topic. Ryan’s mother told here son that she would still love him if he had a boy friend. I would say that it is her love for her son would lead her to accept gay marriage if he only she had him back.

The original question is “How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?” not how can a catholic licitly support so called homosexual marriage. You can say that “licit” is implied but it is not explicit.

To add a addendum to my previous post. Yes the heart, rightly or wrongly, does play a role in the decisions we make.

 

[estesbob]

This is an excellent question for another topic. What is uppermost in my mind and heart is the tortured feelings of Ryan’s mother for her lose.

Which, as,I posted, is also another topic. Society is rampant with people who have rejected
the Faith because of the actions of a loved one. A good example is Anne Hathaway,an accomplished actress and formerly devout Catholic.She now
Rejects the Faith because her brother is a homosexual and the Church wont accept his behavior.

Mankind had been rationalizing supporting evil since Cain killed Abel.No how many emotional ,heart wrenching stories about parents of homosexuals we can come up with the answer to the question"can Catholics accept homosexual marriage" is still no.

 

[estesbob]

I see it as being on topic. Ryan’s mother told here son that she would still love him if he had a boy friend. While it she was not explicitly stating that she now supports gay marriage it can be reasoned that she would except Ryan being in gay marriage if only she could have him back. I would say that it is her love for her son would lead her to accept gay marriage.

The original question is “Re: How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?” not how can a catholic licitly support so called homosexual marriage. You can say that “licit” is implied but it is not explicit.

To add a addendum to my previous post. Yes the heart, rightly or wrongly, does play a role in the decisions we make.

Well of course a Catholic can support anything they want.Unless we are talking about can they licitly support it there really is no basis for discussion.

 

[frobert]

Which, as,I posted, is also another topic. Society is rampant with people who have rejected
the Faith because of the actions of a loved one. A good example is Anne Hathaway,an accomplished actress and formerly devout Catholic.She now
Rejects the Faith because her brother is a homosexual and the Church wont accept his behavior.

Mankind had been rationalizing supporting evil since Cain killed Abel.No how many emotional ,heart wrenching stories about parents of homosexuals we can come up with the answer to the question"can Catholics accept homosexual marriage" is still no.

It is tragic that Anne left the church. One of the most fascinating features of the human brain is that the brain can entertain two or more opposing views. The church must say that you as a Catholic have to accept the churches view but if all Catholics who have an opposing views left the church there wouldn’t be many Catholics left. Pope Francis appears to have opened the doors to those who are of goodwill.

 

[frobert]

Well of course a Catholic can support anything they want.Unless we are talking about can they licitly support it there really is no basis for discussion.

The question is what it is. You are absolutely 100% correct when you move the goal post by modifying the question and say there is no basis for discussion.

I am delighted we can agree on some things.

 

[estesbob]

It is tragic that Anne left the church. One of the most fascinating features of the human brain is that the brain can entertain two or more opposing views. The church must say that you as a Catholic have to accept the churches view but if all Catholics who have an opposing views left the church there wouldn’t be many Catholics left. Pope Francis appears to have opened the doors to those who are of goodwill.

The door was never closed. But once we enter the door our duty is to learn to understand why the church teaches what it does.not try and change the churches teachings. And most certainly we should never try and convince other Catholics that the church is wrong .

To be honest i dont agree with the chruches teaching on barrier methods of contraception. however i accept them follow them and strive to understand why i am mistaken.

We should love and respect those who are struggling with accepting areas of church teachings. We should not condemn or try and drive them out of the church. but we should NEVER affirm their rejection of the teachings and lovingly engage them with he truth.

 

[Gwendolen]

I didn’t read the link.I was responding to other posters comments. I think perhaps you should start a new thread about how parents should react if their child claims to be a homosexual and use that link as a basis. How we interact, as Catholics, with homosexuals is not related to the topic at hand-can a Catholic licitly support so called homosexual marriage.

But the post you were responding to is about the link.

No, the link was not about gay marriage, but about what happened to a parent when they tried to respond to their son’s sexuality in the word of God. Views of gay marriage do not exist in a vacuum, they are part of a continuum. How can we not discuss this without discussing what the people involved went through to get there?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

It’s as simple as this: We live today in a politically correct age of Post-Modernism,
which is not to say that having a “free society” is a bad thing, but the things which
CAN be done in this “free society” CAN potentially be against Christianity.

It is unfortunate, great that we no longer live in a time when people are treated hor-
ribly so for unchristian decisions, but nevertheless unfortunate that these “contrary
to Christian doctrine” choices are made freely available.

It is also important to note that we are ALL Corrupt, Degenerate, & Sinful people,
so we cannot look down on Catholics who support Gay Marriage, as we’re stand-
ing side by side with them, so we can do nothing more than minister and explain
to them their fault.

Now why support Gay Marriage? Not going to give Good Reasons, but reasons for
why this is tragically happening. We LOVE :heart:LOVE:heart:, that is essentially human
nature, to adore the idea of companionship, romance, etc, and in this Fallen World,
we are often lead to confusion, two men who love each other, two women, in LOVE!
“Who are we to stop LOVE?!” many will think.

Now before anyone says it, let me say that The Love is There, it is REAL, but sadly
it is misdirected, AGAIN, we are in a Fallen World, so these things happen. So we
we love Love, we hate to disturb romance, so this is a matter of spiritual confusion.

Lots of our hearts might melt at the idea of life long couples, EVEN (admit it people)
if it is a homosexual couple, because we are attracted by the idea of LOVE. The Fall
is to blame, or explain at least, because as I just explained before, we are all Corrupt,
Degenerate, & Sinful people. Some of us will Hate and SHUN Gay Marriage wickedly,
some of us will will get butterflies in our stomachs over Gay Marriage and support it,
how few are there who stay in the middle, acknowledge it as sinful, try to speak out
against it, but with love and compassion, such is point I feel is hard to reach.

That’s the Devil’s game, I feel, sinful to support Gay Marriage, sinful still to be loaded
in heart with rage and violence, who can avoid both at the same time and be in good
standing with God in this debate? The proper application of Love is thus needed if we
want to deal with matter correctly as Jesus would want us to do.

Example One:“How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?”
Is not a great way to phrase
the question, as it is rather
ostracizing to our confused
Catholic Brothers & Sisters.