How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?

[kanrok]

It doesn’t.

The thread has been hijacked, and I’d expect it to go poof in the next few hours.

ICXC NIKA

I agree.

 

[SybilMolly]

Because almost everyone has a gay person in their life and almost all gay people demand that their lifestyle be completely accepted.

 

[Lochias]

Homosexual acts do not destroy the basic family unit.

Yes, they do. And they have been.

To those of us who are gay loving someone of the same sex and having same-sex is natural. We do not advocate that people not get married, not have children or not to remain faithful to each other, nor get divorced. I personally don’t believe that homosexuals should get married to opposite sex partners because opposite-sex is not natural to them and could very well lead to a breakup of the family.

No, they -feel- it might be natural, but history, reason, logic, and nature all say otherwise.

Perhaps you are confusing the gay rights movement with the sexual revolution that does advocate for sexual freedom to do whatever one wants sexually.

The two are as close as fire and heat are.

Most GLBT people advocate for lifelong monogamous relationships.

But in practice, most GLBT people do not even bother to marry, even where they can. People can say a lot of things, but actions speak louder than words.

Most GLBT people do not advocate for religious oppression and do appreciate respect as individuals and not to be grouped with some non-existent stereotype that you carry around in your head.

It is not a religious argument, but a moral one. The intrinsic and destructive nature of homosexual acts predates the Church. To frame it as a religious argument is to be deliberately obtuse and intellectually dishonest.

Many of us are practicing Catholics.

Then shame on each and every one who performs acts that slap Jesus in the face. He died for the sins of all, and so many simply proceed to sin further. All of those who are practicing Catholics and ignore Church teaching on the matter are guilty of stabbing yet another spear into the heart of our Lord.

STDs are spread by risky sex and unprotected sex with multiple partners. Except for some gay sexual practices which are more prone to AIDS sexual orientation doesn’t play much of a role in STDs.

The UK is now recognizing a “gay epidemic” among homosexuals who are active in that country. Give me a break.

Based on natural law, the Catholic Church calls ANY sex that excludes the possibility of procreation disordered.

No, that is not correct. The Church teaches that any procreative act not ordered towards procreation is disordered. There is a distinct difference.

Perhaps you find it difficult to believe that minorities of both straight and gay sexual radicals exist and advocate for some things that most of us find distasteful.

Why would I find that hard to believe?

There are gays living a destructive lifestyle just as there are straights who are living a destructive lifestyle.

Naturally.

However they are minorities.

If the majority of homosexuals are living a homosexual lifestyle, then they are all living a destructive lifestyle, both to themselves and to others.

For whatever reason it appears that a small vocal group of Catholics along with the anti-LGBT lobbyists want to make homosexuality into a boogeyman. Unfortunately you are doing a good job of it.

It’s not about making homosexuality into a boogeyman. It’s recognizing that homosexual acts are disordered and against God. No amount of foot-stamping and screaming “I want” will change Church teaching on this, because the Church cannot change that teaching. God decided that homosexual acts are disordered, not the Church.

 

[Nacho45]

I don’t understand what you are confused about. You have every right to believe that any supporter of gay marriage is committing a grave sin, we may not understand why they do but they do. People knowingly choose to sin, if they confess their sin and are truly repentant God forgives them if not He deals with them appropriately.

Perhaps I took this statement out of its intended context, but the way I read it, it makes perfect sense. Those who support sin are choosing to sin themselves and unless they “confess their sin and are truly repentant” of that sin, God will not forgive them. If they do and are, He will.

 

[Nacho45]

Are homosexuals equal to heterosexuals?

I see this spin far too often. It bothers me greatly because this question isn’t at all the issue at hand. It is only the issue people want to make it about. What we are discussing here has absolutely nothing at all to do with equality. It never has. It has to do with sin and what the Church teaches about sin, what God teaches about sin. That is the one and only issue here. A willful disobedience to God and those who support that willful disobedience. I feel it would be a more honest approach to stick with what is actually the issue rather than attempting to run down multiple rabbit holes and detract from the importance of the discussion.

 

[Nacho45]

So what you are saying is that a homosexual is NOT equal to a heterosexual because of a sin?

I have always felt if a person identifies first and foremost by their sexuality, they have already set themselves up at a disadvantage and created an unequal situation on their own.

 

[Nacho45]

That doesn’t confuse me one bit.

If a person publicly pronounces themselves Catholic and then publicly pronounces themselves in favor of gay marriage they are fomenting scandal.

It is certainly a confusing thing to say one thing and do another.

 

[Nacho45]

Jesus never addressed homosexuality, but he did discuss divorce.

Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and **he **who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.
Luke 16:18

Jesus sort of did address the issue with the very verse you presented.

 

[Nacho45]

You’ll find that most of the secular world doesn’t accept that idea that actions can be “ordered” or “disordered.” Why? Because it relies on the concept of natural law, which also has no broad acceptance.

But we are not talking about the secular world, we are talking about those who call themselves Catholic and act in opposition to the Catholic Church.

 

[Nacho45]

Homosexual acts do in fact harm outside parties, mostly through the destruction of the family unit, through the propagation of sexual inhibition which leads to more pregnancies by young people and spread of STDs, and though the movement’s oppression of freedom of religious expression.

It certainly is not desirable for the innocent children adopted by same sex couples and forced to be submitted to that situation for years.

 

[Nacho45]

I patiently await proof that two men having sex in private will cause families to break down. Outside of the rare transfusion issue, STDs can only spread between the two individuals having sex.

You seem to miss the point here. It isn’t a singular act that causes destruction of others and the family unit, rather the societal acceptance of the behavior on an overall level. It isn’t the only factor, but it is a big one. Why? Because it is all part of the free sexuality, do what makes you feel good, mentality which infects the world. The same plague which is directly responsible for dissolving the family unit and the responsibilities which go with the family. Big picture view here is important, not a narrow focus. You can’t see the entire puzzle if you are only focusing on one of the 1000 pieces.

 

[Nacho45]

It doesn’t.

The thread has been hijacked

ICXC NIKA

A common tactic used on a variety of forums.

 

[frobert]

Yes, they do. And they have been.

No, they -feel- it might be natural, but history, reason, logic, and nature all say otherwise.

The two are as close as fire and heat are.

But in practice, most GLBT people do not even bother to marry, even where they can. People can say a lot of things, but actions speak louder than words.

It is not a religious argument, but a moral one. The intrinsic and destructive nature of homosexual acts predates the Church. To frame it as a religious argument is to be deliberately obtuse and intellectually dishonest.

Then shame on each and every one who performs acts that slap Jesus in the face. He died for the sins of all, and so many simply proceed to sin further. All of those who are practicing Catholics and ignore Church teaching on the matter are guilty of stabbing yet another spear into the heart of our Lord.

The UK is now recognizing a “gay epidemic” among homosexuals who are active in that country. Give me a break.

No, that is not correct. The Church teaches that any procreative act not ordered towards procreation is disordered. There is a distinct difference.

Why would I find that hard to believe?

Naturally.

If the majority of homosexuals are living a homosexual lifestyle, then they are all living a destructive lifestyle, both to themselves and to others.

It’s not about making homosexuality into a boogeyman. It’s recognizing that homosexual acts are disordered and against God. No amount of foot-stamping and screaming “I want” will change Church teaching on this, because the Church cannot change that teaching. God decided that homosexual acts are disordered, not the Church.

Thank you for opinion.

I am grateful that it is not mine, I could not bear to live in such a hateful way.

God Speed
Frank

 

[frobert]

But we are not talking about the secular world, we are talking about those who call themselves Catholic and act in opposition to the Catholic Church.

It scary that you posses to know what goes on between me and my confessor.

 

[AnimalSpirits]

But we are not talking about the secular world, we are talking about those who call themselves Catholic and act in opposition to the Catholic Church.

Not in the comment I was responding to, where the poster specifically claimed that he was not making a religious argument.

 

[AnimalSpirits]

You seem to miss the point here. It isn’t a singular act that causes destruction of others and the family unit, rather the societal acceptance of the behavior on an overall level. It isn’t the only factor, but it is a big one. Why? Because it is all part of the free sexuality, do what makes you feel good, mentality which infects the world. The same plague which is directly responsible for dissolving the family unit and the responsibilities which go with the family. Big picture view here is important, not a narrow focus. You can’t see the entire puzzle if you are only focusing on one of the 1000 pieces.

Evidence is important, not vague untestable claims. Were I in your place, I wouldn’t want to rely on the facts either, since they seem to weigh heavily against you.

For example, the US divorce rate peaked in the 1980’s and has been on a (mostly) downward trend ever since- odd, no? As society has become more accepting of gay rights, it seems that fewer families have been breaking up.

Of course this isn’t an airtight statistical argument- not even close. But it reaches a valid question- families seem to be strengthgening, rather than weakening, at present.

 

[frobert]

A common tactic used on a variety of forums.

I don’t think it is a very good question to begin with it of invites going out on tangents.

 

[Nacho45]

It scary that you posses to know what goes on between me and my confessor.

I made no such claim nor did my post. Actually, I can’t even possibly begin to know how you came to such a conclusion.

 

[Nacho45]

Evidence is important, not vague untestable claims…

I agree. We can start by simply walking out our front door and go from there. Evidence is not in short supply. One can go in any direction and find it in abundance. However, if you wish for nothing more than a few statistics which support my claim, if you are unwilling conduct the research, please let me know and I will provide some.

 

[frobert]

It certainly is not desirable for the innocent children adopted by same sex couples and forced to be submitted to that situation for years.

It’s a pity that children and made to suffer the sins of their parents. My prayers go out to children who are born into abusive families where they live in constant fear that there dad or mom will beat the **** out of them for the smallest perceived infraction. I wish I were better able do something to stop such abuse.