How Do Those Who Call Themselves Catholic Support Gay Marriage?

[on_the_hill]

As society has become more accepting of gay rights, it seems that fewer families have been breaking up.

Of course this isn’t an airtight statistical argument- not even close. But it reaches a valid question- families seem to be strengthgening, rather than weakening, at present.

Not even close to airtight, and barely makes the grade of statistical. Global temperatures are going up at the same time families are strengthening, too.

Or, to put it another way, maybe more homosexuals want to get married because they see that families are strengthening.

I wouldn’t be willing to say society is becoming more accepting of gay rights. It could be that society is tired of fighting about it.

 

[AnimalSpirits]

I agree. We can start by simply walking out our front door and go from there. Evidence is not in short supply. One can go in any direction and find it in abundance. However, if you wish for nothing more than a few statistics which support my claim, if you are unwilling conduct the research, please let me know and I will provide some.

I’d like peer reviewed research, but I suspect no reputable groups have even bothered looking at the issue. But if you yourself happen to have access to said research or, failing that, some basic statistics (like those I cited), that would be much appreciated.

 

[Nacho45]

It’s a pity that children and made to suffer the sins of their parents. My prayers go out to children who are born into abusive families where they live in constant fear that there dad or mom will beat the **** out of them for the smallest perceived infraction. I wish I were better able do something to stop such abuse.

While it is a very important issue and should be discussed, I do not understand what that has to do with my statement or the topic. It has the appearance of a sensational distraction, but I am sure I misunderstand.

 

[Nacho45]

I’d like peer reviewed research, but I suspect no reputable groups have even bothered looking at the issue. But if you yourself happen to have access to said research or, failing that, some basic statistics (like those I cited), that would be much appreciated.

Is your information peer reviewed? How do you peer review numbers?

 

[AnimalSpirits]

Not even close to airtight, and barely makes the grade of statistical. Global temperatures are going up at the same time families are strengthening, too.

Or, to put it another way, maybe more homosexuals want to get married because they see that families are strengthening.

I wouldn’t be willing to say society is becoming more accepting of gay rights. It could be that society is tired of fighting about it.

Well in all honestly I wouldn’t think that the divorce rate or the desire for gay marriage have any relationship at all. The point was that it’s odd to talk about the destruction of marriage/the family at a time when marriage is strengthening.

And I’m not sure how you can distinguish between the two. Earlier, someone cited a study showing that 60% of Americans beleive that homosexuals should be accepted by society. I suspect that far fewer Americans believed this 2 decades ago. Maybe it’s acceptance vs. tolerance- you’d need a very specifically worded survey to distinguish.

 

[AnimalSpirits]

Is your information peer reviewed? How do you peer review numbers?

Clarification: I was asking for one of two things. Ideally peer reviewed research OR if that is not available, basic statistics (like those I cited). My numbers were most certainly the latter, not the former.

 

[Nacho45]

Clarification: I was asking for one of two things. Ideally peer reviewed research OR if that is not available, basic statistics (like those I cited). My numbers were most certainly the latter, not the former.

But you provided no statistics, just a statement. In fact, I disagree with your statement. For your statement to have value, you must provide a reference point. Divorce rates going from say 50% to 49% in a year means nothing when compared to and increase of 30% 60 years ago.

 

[frobert]

But you provided no statistics, just a statement. In fact, I disagree with your statement. For your statement to have value, you must provide a reference point. Divorce rates going from say 50% to 49% in a year means nothing when compared to and increase of 30% 60 years ago.

Statistics are a strange thing. Mark Twain once wrote there are three levels of lies: Lies, d***ed lies and statistics.

 

[AnimalSpirits]

But you provided no statistics, just a statement. In fact, I disagree with your statement. For your statement to have value, you must provide a reference point. Divorce rates going from say 50% to 49% in a year means nothing when compared to and increase of 30% 60 years ago.

The divorce rate has, in fact, retreated a great deal since its peak in the 1980’s. A more preferable measure might be the percent of active marriages that end in a given year, but alas, I’ve been unable to find such a statistic during my commute.

Regardless, it seems that at the very least, marriage is not weakening, despite the fact that the"gay agenda" has made substantial gains. It’s also true that states which allow gay marriage tend to have lower divorce rates- I’d link to the article, but it’s on HuffPo and I don’t want to give them any traffic.

www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005044.html

 

[Lochias]

Thank you for opinion.

It’s not an opinion at all, it’s what the Church teaches.

I am grateful that it is not mine, I could not bear to live in such a hateful way.

It is the secular world that is hateful to the Church and to the family, not the other way around. Of course, that just means that the world can’t bear to listen to what it’s hearing…that it’s doing wrong. Those who hate Jesus in their hearts will continue to sin against him, and then they will be lost. I don’t hate anyone…I ache for the choices they’re making, and leading others towards. They have no idea, none at all, and they are pitiable in their wretchedness.

God Speed

Be careful about how you invoke God, if you’re going to do away with Church teachings.

 

[GEddie]

Evidence is important, not vague untestable claims. Were I in your place, I wouldn’t want to rely on the facts either, since they seem to weigh heavily against you.

For example, the US divorce rate peaked in the 1980’s and has been on a (mostly) downward trend ever since- odd, no? As society has become more accepting of gay rights, it seems that fewer families have been breaking up.

Of course this isn’t an airtight statistical argument- not even close. But it reaches a valid question- families seem to be strengthgening, rather than weakening, at present.

Sure, there is less divorce now than in the late 1900s.

But it doesn’t mean what you think it does.

Rather, people are hooking up and just not bothering with marriage, therefore, no divorce.

ICXC NIKA

 

[aidanbradypop]

It’s not an opinion at all, it’s what the Church teaches.

It is the secular world that is hateful to the Church and to the family, not the other way around. Of course, that just means that the world can’t bear to listen to what it’s hearing…that it’s doing wrong.

Yes you are correct. Sadly, some are “hateful” to the Church and maybe even towards family. Please be careful, however, and not group everyone in with the extreme few.

Those who hate Jesus in their hearts will continue to sin against him, and then they will be lost. I don’t hate anyone…I ache for the choices they’re making, and leading others towards. They have no idea, none at all, and they are pitiable in their wretchedness.

This is kind out there for me. So all of us that sin, including yourself, hate Christ? Wow.

Be careful about how you invoke God, if you’re going to do away with Church teachings.

Bit harsh and uncalled for but I am sure you will get away with it.

 

[AnimalSpirits]

Sure, there is less divorce now than in the late 1900s.

But it doesn’t mean what you think it does.

Rather, people are hooking up and just not bothering with marriage, therefore, no divorce.

ICXC NIKA

The falling marriage rate plays a role, true. But among those who are getting married, marriage is getting stronger.

articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-05-18/local/35232249_1_divorce-rate-long-marriages-couples

As I recall, single parenthood is also falling- but I suspect contraception/abortion is the cause there.

 

[frobert]

While it is a very important issue and should be discussed, I do not understand what that has to do with my statement or the topic. It has the appearance of a sensational distraction, but I am sure I misunderstand.

I am sorry that you are unable to make the connection. You are in my prayers.

 

[on_the_hill]

Well in all honestly I wouldn’t think that the divorce rate or the desire for gay marriage have any relationship at all. The point was that it’s odd to talk about the destruction of marriage/the family at a time when marriage is strengthening.

Fair enough. I interpreted your post to mean that there is some positive causation between stronger families/marriages and acceptance of gay rights, as if the former contributed to the latter.

 

[frobert]

Yes you are correct. Sadly, some are “hateful” to the Church and maybe even towards family. Please be careful, however, and not group everyone in with the extreme few.

This is kind out there for me. So all of us that sin, including yourself, hate Christ? Wow.

Bit harsh and uncalled for but I am sure you will get away with it.

Excellent points. I derive a lot of pleasure from your posts.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Fair enough. I interpreted your post to mean that there is some positive causation between stronger families/marriages and acceptance of gay rights, as if the former contributed to the latter.

I believe same-sex civil unions would be much like marriage between a man/woman. You would have those that believe in the bond and those that take it for granted. I know a gay couple that has been together now for about 20 yrs. They are faithful to one another and respect the bond they have together.

I also know another gay male that cannot be in a relationship for more that 3 months.

They same could be said with heterosexual couples as well. My sister-in-law bounces from relationship to relationship.

Not sure if allowing gay marriage would strengthen marriage numbers but I do not think it will destroy such. Us heteros do a good job at that lol

 

[Lochias]

Yes you are correct. Sadly, some are “hateful” to the Church and maybe even towards family. Please be careful, however, and not group everyone in with the extreme few.

It was a generalized statement, nothing more.

This is kind out there for me. So all of us that sin, including yourself, hate Christ? Wow.

Did I say I wasn’t a sinner? Seems like you’re fishing, here.

Bit harsh and uncalled for but I am sure you will get away with it.

…telling someone who identifies as Catholic and who refuses the Church’s teachings on homosexuality to be careful about invoking a God they’re only nominally following is “harsh and uncalled for”? There’s nothing to get away with.

 

[aidanbradypop]

It was a generalized statement, nothing more.

Gotcha

Did I say I wasn’t a sinner? Seems like you’re fishing, here.

Not fishing at all Lochias. The way you stated it was that those who hate Christ in their hearts will continue to sin. We all will continue to sin. It just came off in a bad way I guess.

…telling someone who identifies as Catholic and who refuses the Church’s teachings on homosexuality to be careful about invoking a God they’re only nominally following is “harsh and uncalled for”? There’s nothing to get away with.

The same could be said for ANY sinner Lochias not just the average homosexual Catholic. I am sure we all do things sometimes that goes against what the Church states. I am thankful that the Church forgives!

 

[Lochias]

Not fishing at all Lochias. The way you stated it was that those who hate Christ in their hearts will continue to sin. We all will continue to sin. It just came off in a bad way I guess.