How do Traditional Catholics Feel about Eastern Catholicism

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East_and_West

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High everyone. I am a Latin Catholic who attends a Ruthenian (Byzantine) Catholic Church. For the most part my parish is great. The pastor is solidly orthodox and defends all the dogmas fo the Catholic Church. However, I have come accross a great deal of Eastern Catholics who do not accept the teaching of the Church, but rather side with the Schismatic Eastern Orthodox Chruches. Some dogmas that some Eastern Catholics outright reject include:
  1. Papal Infallibility
  2. The universal jurisdiction of the Pope
  3. Original Sin
  4. The Immaculate Conception
  5. Purgatory
  6. Indulgences
  7. The simplicity of God as taught by Aquinas (They separate God into essene/energies)
  8. Transubstantiation (some express a similar idea, other think transubstanitation is an outright error).
  9. The procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son as a single spiriation.
  10. The Beatific Vision
  11. Development of Doctrine
  12. The Ecumenical Councils that occured after the seventh.
    etc.
    Some western Catholic practices or private revelations that some Eastern Catholics find erroneous:
  13. Adoration and Benediction.
  14. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus
  15. Devotins such as the sacpular and Divine Mercy
  16. Apparitions such as Our Lady of Fatima
  17. Contemplative prayer (rather than meditating on the mysteries of God, they empty their minds while praying the Jesus Prayer in an attempt to see the “divine light”)
  18. Scholastic theology such as that of Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Anslem, Boneventure, and Blessed Duns Scotus.
Now understand, not all Eastern Catholics reject all of these things. Some reject none. Some reject some. Some reject all. Those who do reject these things justify it as not being part of their Eastern theology or spirituality. It is my feelilng that those who reject any of the teachings of the Church do not profess the Catholic faith. How do other traditional Catholics feel about these matters? How can these issue be resolved?
 
East_and_West said:
Some western Catholic practices or private revelations that some Eastern Catholics find erroneous:
  1. Adoration and Benediction.
  2. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus
  3. Devotins such as the sacpular and Divine Mercy
  4. Apparitions such as Our Lady of Fatima
  5. Contemplative prayer (rather than meditating on the mysteries of God, they empty their minds while praying the Jesus Prayer in an attempt to see the “divine light”)
  6. Scholastic theology such as that of Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Anslem, Boneventure, and Blessed Duns Scotus.
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No one, even Latin Catholics, are obliged to believe in the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima, as it is private revelation. Therefore, if they choose to disregard it, it is in no way incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
 
East_and_West said:
High everyone. I am a Latin Catholic who attends a Ruthenian (Byzantine) Catholic Church. For the most part my parish is great. The pastor is solidly orthodox and defends all the dogmas fo the Catholic Church. However, I have come accross a great deal of Eastern Catholics who do not accept the teaching of the Church, but rather side with the Schismatic Eastern Orthodox Chruches. Some dogmas that some Eastern Catholics outright reject include:
  1. Papal Infallibility
  2. The universal jurisdiction of the Pope
  3. Original Sin
  4. The Immaculate Conception
  5. Purgatory
  6. Indulgences
  7. The simplicity of God as taught by Aquinas (They separate God into essene/energies)
  8. Transubstantiation (some express a similar idea, other think transubstanitation is an outright error).
  9. The procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son as a single spiriation.
  10. The Beatific Vision
  11. Development of Doctrine
  12. The Ecumenical Councils that occured after the seventh.
    etc.
    Some western Catholic practices or private revelations that some Eastern Catholics find erroneous:
  13. Adoration and Benediction.
  14. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus
  15. Devotins such as the sacpular and Divine Mercy
  16. Apparitions such as Our Lady of Fatima
  17. Contemplative prayer (rather than meditating on the mysteries of God, they empty their minds while praying the Jesus Prayer in an attempt to see the “divine light”)
  18. Scholastic theology such as that of Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Anslem, Boneventure, and Blessed Duns Scotus.
Now understand, not all Eastern Catholics reject all of these things. Some reject none. Some reject some. Some reject all. Those who do reject these things justify it as not being part of their Eastern theology or spirituality. It is my feelilng that those who reject any of the teachings of the Church do not profess the Catholic faith. How do other traditional Catholics feel about these matters? How can these issue be resolved?
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I agree with you, E&W, but these things happened because, to quote the memoirs of Sr. Lucia of Fatima, “they didn’t want to heed my request.” People familiar with Fatima will know what I’m talking about. Besides, the errors you cite were allowed to fester because of false ecumenism and modernism coming to a great extent from the west; hence the east has no monopoly on sins against faith.

The rosary crusade for the conversion of Russia and re-Catholicizing of the Christian east needs to expand, for otherwise we are threatened with ruin.
 
To give an example of how an Eastern Catholic Could not believe in such things, let’s look at union. Take the Union of the Ruthenians (1596), who at the time were not obligated to accept the following:
  1. Papal Infallibility - not defined by the time of union
  2. The universal jurisdiction of the Pope - I agree this is a NEEDED topic of discussion
  3. Original Sin - Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome.
  4. The Immaculate Conception - lack of belief in original sin, not to mention it’s lack of definition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome.
  5. Purgatory - Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome. Rusyns said they were not to debate about purgatory.
  6. Indulgences -* that’s a tricky issue that is best discussed in the context of each church. I do not know where the Ruthenians stand on this.*
  7. The simplicity of God as taught by Aquinas (They separate God into essene/energies) - major red herring, the ‘distinction’ was acknowledged and called beautiful by HH Pope John Paul II, stop bringing this up E&W, this is pure polemics on your part. To the Traditional Catholics, pay no heed to this attempt at creating discontent, it is a non-issue.
  8. Transubstantiation (some express a similar idea, other think transubstanitation is an outright error). - *apart of the union documentations explicity states belief to be as they had always practiced, separate from the belief of transubstantiation. Rome agreed. *
  9. The procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son as a single spiriation. - Yet another red herring “we ask that we should not be compelled to any other creed but that we should remain with that which was handed down to us in the Holy Scriptures, in the Gospel, and in the writings of the holy Greek Doctors, that is, that the Holy Spirit proceeds, not from two sources and not by a double procession, but from one origin, from the Father through the Son.”
  10. The Beatific Vision - not even an issue, E&W, red herring
  11. Development of Doctrine - I agree this is a NEEDED topic of discussion
  12. The Ecumenical Councils that occured after the seventh. - Rome agreed that they did not have to accept that which is beyond their patrimony, and those councils after the seventh certainly fall into that line, at least those beliefs stemming from those councils.
Some western Catholic practices or private revelations that some Eastern Catholics find erroneous:
  1. Adoration and Benediction. -* Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome. *
  2. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus -* Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome. *
  3. Devotins such as the sacpular and Divine Mercy - *Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome. *
  4. Apparitions such as Our Lady of Fatima - Already discussed, red herring
  5. Contemplative prayer (rather than meditating on the mysteries of God, they empty their minds while praying the Jesus Prayer in an attempt to see the “divine light”) -* your’e insulting. Again this tradition came far after the existing Eastern, it is Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome. Contemplating prayer has never been put above and taught as THE only correct form of prayer, and you negate many other Eastern and Oriental forms of prayer in the process of making such a statement*
  6. Scholastic theology such as that of Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Anslem, Boneventure, and Blessed Duns Scotus. - Latin Tradition, interferes with the union in that the Rusyns were to keep those traditions that were there’s and not interferences from Rome. Please, E&W, this is pure polemics.
The only issues that are needed to be discussed that I believe define Catholicity are issues #2 and #11, all of the others I have shown just by the experiences of one church are no longer up for discussion. Rome has spoken, E&W, I am sorry you disagree with Her.

For the treaty, see the following.

Peace and God Bless!
 
I am a Latin Rite Catholic that attends a Ruthinian Rite church most Sundays, too. I have not run into any of these issue you mention. During the Divine Liturgy we pray for “the Holy Father, Benedict, the Pope of Rome…” several times during the liturgy.

The theology of Eastern Christianity is certainly different. So, they may talk of Mary’s Dormition rather than her Assumption. They may speak of purification after death as a series of toll booths rather than purgatorial fire. Easterners may focus more on theosis rather than the more juridical concept of indulgences for remission of temporal punishment. They may hesitate to want to talk of the Eucharist in terms of transubstantiation, but they certainly believe in the Real Presence. Examples can be multiplied, but I think the major differences are not doctrinal but devotional and linguistic.
 
Discussion of Eastern Catholicism belongs in the Eastern Catholicism forum. Please do not start threads in Traditional Catholicism that invite traditional Latin Catholics to criticize Eastern Catholicism. Thank you.
Note:

This thread is closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
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