How do we argue against gay marriage in a secular society?

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TeenageConvert

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I understand why it is wrong, but I don’t see how it’s argued that it shouldn’t be legal.
It’s something that I hear pop up a lot at school, but I’ve never jumped into the debates simply because I don’t think I have enough knowledge about it to defend the Catholic position. and the people arguing against it(all protestants) normally have pretty weak/inconsistant arguements, they’re just stubborn.
 
There are some pretty good arguments out there but I couldn’t make them personally. I know they’re taken from the social position rather then the moral position.

Some of the Catholic Answers Live radio shows have had some pretty good ideas but… like I said I have a horrible memory and can’t pull any of it out of my head.

Hopefully someone can rephrase the good arguments for you. 🙂
 
TeenageConvert said:
I understand why it is wrong, but I don’t see how it’s argued that it shouldn’t be legal.
It’s something that I hear pop up a lot at school, but I’ve never jumped into the debates simply because I don’t think I have enough knowledge about it to defend the Catholic position. and the people arguing against it(all protestants) normally have pretty weak/inconsistant arguements, they’re just stubborn.
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Why shouldn’t polygamy be legal then? By keeping gay marriage illegal, we benefit society as a whole by upholding marriage. The only real way I see of defending marriage is that society’s morals go down the drain if you don’t. I recommend reading Humanae Vitae.
 
There are non religious arguments against gay marriage rooted in biology, natural law etc.

Look at this article released in Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy:

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1722155

I would also try and educate yourself more on the Catholic view of marriage and why Catholics oppose gay ‘marriage’ which will also help you argue argue against gay ‘marriage.’
 
Here are my thoughts on the subject.

If something is intrinsically evil, then it should be illegal. Just because a person is only harming themselves through their action doesn’t mean that it should actually be legal to do it. For example, you wouldn’t allow somebody who is depressed to commit suicide or inflict damage on themselves. People who are committing homosexual acts are also damaging themselves in a very similar way and, as a society, we have a duty to help protect them through laws and to discourage such activities.

You also have to consider the slippery slope effect that legalizing gay marriage will have on society down the road. For example, if gay people can be married, why shouldn’t our society also allow pillagomous and incestuous marriages? And if you look far enough down the road, even things like pedophilia could follow a similar path to social acceptance as what gay marriage advocates are using today…
 
TeenageConvert said:
I understand why it is wrong, but I don’t see how it’s argued that it shouldn’t be legal.
It’s something that I hear pop up a lot at school, but I’ve never jumped into the debates simply because I don’t think I have enough knowledge about it to defend the Catholic position. and the people arguing against it(all protestants) normally have pretty weak/inconsistant arguements, they’re just stubborn.
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Are you ready?

From this site,

Gay Marriage

Marriage is a public institution. Consequently, proposals that could harm the institution of marriage must be subjected to the same sort of objective analysis that we give any public policy question. Marriage is not just a private matter of emotion between two people. On the contrary, its success or failure has measurable impact on all of society. Rational analysis yields solid, objective reasons for limiting marriage to one man and one woman-reasons anyone can agree with on purely secular grounds.

The exhaustive reasons that you can use to defend the Catholic position to secular society are explained once you get passed the introduction in the linked document.

Other links:

The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

A Secular Argument Against Gay Marriage

10 Reasons Why Homosexual “Marriage” is Harmful and Must be Opposed

77 Non-Religious Reasons to Support Man/Woman Marriage

Answering Advocates of Gay Marriage

,
 
TeenageConvert said:
I understand why it is wrong, but I don’t see how it’s argued that it shouldn’t be legal.
It’s something that I hear pop up a lot at school, but I’ve never jumped into the debates simply because I don’t think I have enough knowledge about it to defend the Catholic position. and the people arguing against it(all protestants) normally have pretty weak/inconsistant arguements, they’re just stubborn.
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You should avoid using Biblical admonitions since the proponents obviously don’t accept them. Just adopt the position that the burden of proof is on the social innovator to justify change. It is not on the advocate of the status quo. Then after you hear the usual rant about equal rights, just deny that sex is a right, and never yield.

So your question should be “Why SS‘M’ [same sex ‘marriage’]. Be that as it may, here is a four-part presentation on “Why not?”, and none of the reasons are religious. Each part is about 15 minutes:
Jennifer Roback Morse, Phd
Same Sex Marriage: Why Not? (Part 1 of 4) youtube.com/watch?v=osCnn-ATrcI
Same Sex Marriage: Why Not? (Part 2 of 4) youtube.com/watch?v=ZdzCFMCsIb4
Same Sex Marriage: Why Not? (Part 3 of 4) youtube.com/watch?v=atsAiYpyI9M&feature=related
Same Sex Marriage: Why Not? (Part 4 of 4) youtube.com/watch?v=VwyOHhJAYko&feature=related
 
I’m going to be totally honest and say I don’t think there is a solid secular argument against gay marriage.

It’s like pornography. As Catholics, we can see the various and grave evils surrounding it. We have seen it destroy our society. No real secular argument against it - we can only prove that it will destroy society once it’s already been destroyed.

The current secular moral code consists of a golden rule, that the personal will must never be violated. This usually means that whatever does not cause immediate physical harm is permissible - though perhaps if the pain is consented to, then that too is permissible.

I’m sure as society progresses, it will realize that if morality is made up by us, then we don’t even need those rules. Current secularists balk at the ideas of polygamy or incest or bestiality, even though they can exist in perfect harmony with the golden rule, because they have been raised to feel that way and that’s how everyone else feels. Perhaps future generations will be free from such unfounded prejudices.

When I look at the fruits of relativism, all I can do is thank God for dogma.
 
Equites_Christi said:
I’m going to be totally honest and say I don’t think there is a solid secular argument against gay marriage.

It’s like pornography. As Catholics, we can see the various and grave evils surrounding it. We have seen it destroy our society. No real secular argument against it - we can only prove that it will destroy society once it’s already been destroyed.

The current secular moral code consists of a golden rule, that the personal will must never be violated. This usually means that whatever does not cause immediate physical harm is permissible - though perhaps if the pain is consented to, then that too is permissible.

I’m sure as society progresses, it will realize that if morality is made up by us, then we don’t even need those rules. Current secularists balk at the ideas of polygamy or incest or bestiality, even though they can exist in perfect harmony with the golden rule, because they have been raised to feel that way and that’s how everyone else feels. Perhaps future generations will be free from such unfounded prejudices.

When I look at the fruits of relativism, all I can do is thank God for dogma.
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Sad, but true.
 
They call them “civil unions” to weaken all of the arguments put forth here.

Semantics.
 
I feel for the OP. Boy, do I. I have several gay friends, as does my teen daughter. I worked for years on gay rights and gay adoption. This is an issue with which, as a very recent Christian convert, I struggle mightily.

It is so hard. I have friends who have been together for years and are so happy. They are consenting adults, so there is no analogy toward pedophila.

Yes, I’ve read the Bible passages. Yes, I know Catholic teaching. This is simply something I personally struggle with dealing with practically. At this point I simply love my friends. I accept my gay and bi friends and acquaintances as I do myself, a former adultress and thrice-married sinner. I accept my friends who are Wiccan, who live together without marriage. I am simply choosing, at this point in my life, to not get behind any legislation one way or the other. I want to work on myself first and be more like the Mother Theresa quote in my signature. I think right now I need to stick with St. Augustine’s advice of spreading the gospel and only using words if necessary. I’ve changed tremendously over this last year and will change more, I’m sure.
 
SurlyMermaid said:
I feel for the OP. Boy, do I. I have several gay friends, as does my teen daughter. I worked for years on gay rights and gay adoption. This is an issue with which, as a very recent Christian convert, I struggle mightily.

It is so hard. I have friends who have been together for years and are so happy. They are consenting adults, so there is no analogy toward pedophila.

Yes, I’ve read the Bible passages. Yes, I know Catholic teaching. This is simply something I personally struggle with dealing with practically. At this point I simply love my friends. I accept my gay and bi friends and acquaintances as I do myself, a former adultress and thrice-married sinner. I accept my friends who are Wiccan, who live together without marriage. I am simply choosing, at this point in my life, to not get behind any legislation one way or the other. I want to work on myself first and be more like the Mother Theresa quote in my signature. I think right now I need to stick with St. Augustine’s advice of spreading the gospel and only using words if necessary. I’ve changed tremendously over this last year and will change more, I’m sure.
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Does the existence of some nice homosexuals mean that homosexuality is good?
 
AugustXVIII said:
Kind of how SOME heterosexual actions are out of lust and sinful as well?
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Yes. 100% correct. I did have to add one word though.

Things like having sex out of wedlock, using artificial birth control, and adultery, as well as masturbation, and pornography are sins of lust that apply to heterosexuals.
 
TeenageConvert said:
I understand why it is wrong, but I don’t see how it’s argued that it shouldn’t be legal.
It’s something that I hear pop up a lot at school, but I’ve never jumped into the debates simply because I don’t think I have enough knowledge about it to defend the Catholic position. and the people arguing against it(all protestants) normally have pretty weak/inconsistant arguements, they’re just stubborn.
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It may be a bit basic and “graphic” but I say… the plumbing doesn’t line up. It’s against Natural law at the very least.
 
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