How do we articulate an argument against legal marijuana?

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recentrevert said:
Banning alcohol is not for the common good. It is an established and immemorial tradition which would be almost impossible to prevent. Cannabis is a minority indulgence, far more damaging to the mental health and to the young. Most people feel unpleasantly tired and ill if they drink too much or too often, but cannabis does not cause this so easily and this makes regular abuse easier. Cannabis is more easily abused because although users become stupid and boring the smell is more easily hidden, it does not cause such noticeable disorientation and the user does not become loud. Alcohol does not cause serious psychiatric problems except when severely over-indulged in for many years, but cannabis can cause these when only small amounts are taken infrequently. Cannabis is a drug which distorts the mind whereas alcohol is merely a depressant.
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I’m an ACOA. I’m limiting my response in deference to charity.

Paganism, too, is an established and immemorial tradition.

Do you really think that an open bottle of vodka is easier to smell than a joint being smoked?

I wanted to address your claim of alcohol “merely being a depressant” but can’t figure out how to do so charitably. Suffice it to say that not only do I strongly disagree due to my anecdotal experience, but this is also incorrect based on my collegiate study of psychopharmacology.
 
Why is so much emphasis placed on the physical drugs themselves and so little on preventing people from using in the first place? Not about legality, but on why people pick up? And then addressing those reasons.
 
I think it’s too late already, at least for the west coast where it’s been legalized.
I don’t think it’s a harmless drug. If cigarettes ruin your lungs, is pot going to somehow be better? Then of course there’s the odor. Legalizing it won’t take away the underground market for it either - there’s still an underage market for alcohol and cigarettes.
 
Sunbreak said:
I think it’s too late already, at least for the west coast where it’s been legalized.
I don’t think it’s a harmless drug. If cigarettes ruin your lungs, is pot going to somehow be better? Then of course there’s the odor. Legalizing it won’t take away the underground market for it either - there’s still an underage market for alcohol and cigarettes.
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Should adults be able to use whatever drugs or alcoholic beverages they want to?
I know that several Congressman and Senators have admitted to using illegal drugs and they are not in jail. President Obama said that he used cocaine and President Clinton said that he smoked marijuana as did Al Gore and they are not in jail. Michael Bloomberg, George W. Bush, Jeb Bush, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, George Pataki, Rick Santorum and many others have said that they have smoked marijuana. Why throw ordinary people in jail for using illegal drugs, whereas the politicians can get away with it without serving jail time?
 
Tomdstone said:
Should adults be able to use whatever drugs or alcoholic beverages they want to?
I know that several Congressman and Senators have admitted to using illegal drugs and they are not in jail. President Obama said that he used cocaine and President Clinton said that he smoked marijuana as did Al Gore and they are not in jail. Michael Bloomberg, George W. Bush, Jeb Bush, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, George Pataki, Rick Santorum and many others have said that they have smoked marijuana. Why throw ordinary people in jail for using illegal drugs, whereas the politicians can get away with it without serving jail time?
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Because saying you did something and getting caught with it are two different things. Tons of ordinary people will say that they have smoked it, it isn’t the same as having it on you.
I have police officer friends who smoked in college and drank underage, one has a minor in possession charge actually, and they know tons of people who did in college, they aren’t picking people up for underage drinking or smoking pot in college years later. Goodness
 
Tomdstone said:
Should adults be able to use whatever drugs or alcoholic beverages they want to?
I know that several Congressman and Senators have admitted to using illegal drugs and they are not in jail. President Obama said that he used cocaine and President Clinton said that he smoked marijuana as did Al Gore and they are not in jail. Michael Bloomberg, George W. Bush, Jeb Bush, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, George Pataki, Rick Santorum and many others have said that they have smoked marijuana. Why throw ordinary people in jail for using illegal drugs, whereas the politicians can get away with it without serving jail time?
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Millions of ordinary people admit to having done an illegal drug and dont face legal consequences. Do you get a speeding ticket if you mention to your coworkers that you went 20 over? No.

Either way what you are saying is terrifying. “So and so didnt get in trouble so neither should anybody else.” If that is how all of society operated, there would be hell on earth. You stem corruption by making the high and mighty accountable for their actions. You dont destroy the world by making everything permissable for everybody out of some twisted sense of fairness.
 
TK421 said:
Millions of ordinary people admit to having done an illegal drug and dont face legal consequences. Do you get a speeding ticket if you mention to your coworkers that you went 20 over? No.

Either way what you are saying is terrifying. “So and so didnt get in trouble so neither should anybody else.” If that is how all of society operated, there would be hell on earth. You stem corruption by making the high and mighty accountable for their actions. You dont destroy the world by making everything permissable for everybody out of some twisted sense of fairness.
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Should prohibition be reinstated?
 
Tomdstone said:
Should prohibition be reinstated?
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Prohibition was very harmful for the country. Clinics, good law enforcement tools, and stable families are what you need to curb alcohol abuse.

I dont see any value in being consistent for the sake of being consistent. Alcohol is ingrained into society for thousands of years. It is even the appearance under which the Blood exists. There is no comparison between a glass of wine in the evening and a joint. I know that alcohol has the power to destroy lives and families. but again. that is only in the massive consumption of it. Do we really need to introduce a new substance, especially since people often use marijuana and alcohol together?
 
Ask the parent if a child with a seizure disorder that is uncontrolled, except for when the child is anle to injest medical marijuana and you will receive a different answer. If you have ever known anyone who is in the midst of chemo and cannot stop puking so they can eat and drink, but taking a few tokes from a:thumbsup: vape pen makes life liveable, then some of you might change your opinions .
 
kozlosap said:
Ask the parent if a child with a seizure disorder that is uncontrolled, except for when the child is anle to injest medical marijuana and you will receive a different answer. If you have ever known anyone who is in the midst of chemo and cannot stop puking so they can eat and drink, but taking a few tokes from a:thumbsup: vape pen makes life liveable, then some of you might change your opinions .
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Anecdotes above - I can provide anecdotes where the affects are not positive. Exceptions are objectively good in cases, but exceptions also prove the rule. This is a question of “degree” but one might infer from the above that you also support euthanasia in order to prevent suffering for those in pain and their loved ones.
 
Faber said:
Anecdotes above - I can provide anecdotes where the affects are not positive. Exceptions are objectively good in cases, but exceptions also prove the rule. This is a question of “degree” but one might infer from the above that you also support euthanasia in order to prevent suffering for those in pain and their loved ones.
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I don’t understand why advocating that Medical marijuana is OK equates to support of euthanasia. There are three physicians in my immediate family that are all in agreement that cannabis is quite useful for different conditions. Alcohol abuse causes many more problems to their patients than medically prescribed use of “weed”. If you search for statistical evidence concerning how many people die from alcohol related incidents compared to cannabis related incidents, you will understand where I stand. Do you really think that a chemo patient should not have relief from horrible side effects because they might get “stoned”? Heaven forbid.
 
Cannabis is becoming more legal throughput the world. Catholics should not unconditionally demonize cannabis.
Catholics need to show the world how to live responsibly with legal cannabis. Usually this would be by abstaining from cannabis use. However cannabis is now available in non-psychoactive foms. Topicals and balms are made that provide pain relief without a “high”. If an elderly catholic wants to use one of these balms in Colorado for therapeutic effect (or CA etc. with a valid doctors recommendation) and they purchase it on the LEGAL market then this is in accordance with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
It is time to live responsibly with legal cannabis.
 
TK421 said:
Marijuana is definitely a worse animal than alchohol by quite a lot
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Ummm what do you mean by “worse”? Alcohol is more deadly than cannabis.

The ld50 (lethal dose for 50% of the test population) of alcohol in rats taken orally is 7.06 g/kg of body weight to 10.6 g/kg of body weight. The ld50 of THC in rats taken orally is 730 mg/kg of body weight to 1270 mg/kg of body weight. This means that alcohol is over 100 times as deadly as cannabis. Which also means cannabis is safer than alcohol.

Take a look at the stats here: erowid.org/psychoactives/health/psychoactives_ld50s.shtml

You will notice that THC is also safer than acetaminophen (Tylenol), Nicotine, and caffeine.
 
I suppose I should make a note about “recreational” cannabis. Most Catholics should agree that “recreational” drug use is a bad thing. However, California will hopefully have an “adult use” bill on the ballot in 2016. This will allow simple non-psychoactive products to be available to all adults without spreading the idea of “recreational” drug use.

Steve DeAngelo - founder of Harborside in Oakland - had an interesting take on this subject. He has mentioned that he does not like the term “recreational” but rather “therapeutic” cannabis. I find this interesting because the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches in CCC 2291 “…Their use [drugs], except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense…”

Once again I will say it is time to live responsibly with legal cannabis.
 
TK421 said:
First I’ll start with my own thoughts on the matter. I think in 10-30 years, science - just like it did with tobacco smoking - will more abundantly prove what is already obvious through observation: that smoking marijuna, apart from its highly deletrious effects on the lungs, turns you into a stupid, dull-witted human being, including possible mid-to-long term effects. I had a friend that started smoking pot in high school and I literally could notice his keen intelligence dissipate before my eyes over the span of several months. Of course, being the sensitive subject that it is, he was immune and beyond hope in accepting any such critiques. No study, advice, or warning could penetrate the hallowed throne & altar on which his weed was placed. His weed was his Christ and his bong was his Ark to carry the sacred vessels, and that was the end of it.
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Your question was: How do we articulate an argument against legal marijuana?

An intelligent person can articulate an argument for or against anything… that doesn’t make it right.

Now for my own pleasure I will rewrite your first paragraph on a different subject.

I think in 10-30 years, science - just like it did with tobacco smoking - will more abundantly prove what is already obvious through observation: that watching TV, apart from its highly detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system, turns you into a stupid, dull-witted human being, including possible mid-to-long term effects. I had a friend that started watching TV in pre-school and I literally could notice his keen intelligence dissipate before my eyes over the span of several months. Of course, being the sensitive subject that it is, he was immune and beyond hope in accepting any such critiques. No study, advice, or warning could penetrate the hallowed throne & altar on which his TV was placed. His shows had become his Christ and his TV was his Ark to carry the sacred vessels, and that was the end of it.

If marijuana is illegal… then why not TV?

I am truly sorry that your friend put weed above Christ.

The point is to use things responsibly.
 
TK421 said:
First I’ll start with my own thoughts on the matter.
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OK so your “location” has been bugging me and I feel the need to comment.

As Catholics we are supposed to live like Christ. Perhaps you could direct me to the passage where Jesus spies on His fellow man.

Try to help your fellow man… but spying through windows with binoculars… really?
 
SHoJjhmou said:
I don’t have any Church teachings right now, but keep in mind that marijuana kills brain cells.

The people who argue for marijuana with may have smoked the marijuana, and thus, have less brain cells. :rolleyes:
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Marijuana killing brain cells is one of the biggest lies ever about it.

A lot of research over the last 20 years is proving the opposite.

Marijuana grows new brain cells.

nature.com/news/2005/051010/full/news051010-12.html

Marijuana protects brain cells and may prevent damage after a stroke.

foxnews.com/health/2013/06/06/study-cannabis-may-prevent-brain-damage/

science20.com/news_articles/thc_can_prevent_brain_damage_study-113512
 
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