How do we forgive Osama Bin Laden?

[AlanFromWichita]

I guess all that makes sense. I can forgive most people, but there are a few in my life whom I would like to see burn for eternity. I know I’m supposed to feel differently, but I can’t.

That’s very understandable. I’ve been there, and chances are I’ll be there again next time I’m tested a little too far. It’s just that I recognize that is not God’s best for me, so when it happens I have the sense that I need to get over it.

As for Hell in general, I hope some crimes are punishable by eternal damnation. If not, everyone goes to Heaven, and doesn’t that make salvation meaningless?

I really don’t think it would. I don’t think in heaven we have to compare ourselves to someone else in order to receive the gifts of peace, joy, and whatever else we have in heaven. We are trained that for every A there must be an F. For every winner there is a loser. It is within my imagination that God made everyone a winner, though some take a pretty screwy path in the eyes of those who choose different paths. That may be pretty pie-in-the-sky, but it is certainly within reason. On earth, if we all win the lottery than none of us get a meaningful prize. (Ever seen Bruce Almighty?) But God originally created a world where 100% of the humans were in total communion with God, and He just may be restoring His creation to that state or better.

I don’t know if I’m objectively right, but it makes sense to me and it seems to be backed by my ideas about Jesus. I do know that something in the way I was raised does not rejoice when others are punished even if they deserve it. In my past I have done mean things to people for no fault of theirs, just because I enjoyed seeing what people look like and act like when they are being hurt, and that sickens me. Now I do rejoice if the person somehow is stopped from doing evil, but the punishment in and of itself gives me no glory at all. I have intentionally hurt innocent creatures of God, and if He can forgive me that, then the difference between OBL and me is quantitative, but not qualitative. So how much mercy is more than God is willing and able to dish out for any given one of us? I look at His Son on the cross and am humbled beyond thinking I have an answer to that.

That’s why it hurts when I hear of the news of a highly publicized court case and there is an outcry from the public or media that a person “deserves to die” or “deserves to rot in prison” or whatever. Society deserves to have the person gone, but it’s not about what they deserve, because vengeance is the Lord’s, not ours. I had a very close friend who drove and had an epilectic seizure and killed a couple kids sitting at a stoplight, and the newpapers crucified him, with angry articles fueling and fueled by the victims’ parents, and he did spend years in jail for murder because he shouldn’t have been driving. He was the nicest, meekest guy you’d ever want to know, a faithful husband, father, and scout leader, but he did his time and got off early for good behavior, and that raised yet another public outcry. Truth be told, according to scripture, if it’s about what we earn than 100% of us would be in hell. So if we have sinned against God because of a haughty attitude and He forgives us, then if we can’t forgive others we may run afoul of the parable of the dude who was forgiven a large debt but refused to forgive a small debt against himself.

Alan

 

[Orleans_Attny]

As for Hell in general, I hope some crimes are punishable by eternal damnation. If not, everyone goes to Heaven, and doesn’t that make salvation meaningless?

No. It makes it all the more glorious. There is a grand and wonderful difference between the repentant sinner on earth and the purged former sinner entering the glory of God’ presence. So much so, I can hardly image those two beings as one and the same.

Pax,
OA

 

[mathematoons]

But Jesus taught that Hell is real, that some sins will cause a person to go there, and that God judges everyone at death. If you don’t believe in Hell, then you’re claiming to know more than Jesus.

 

[Orleans_Attny]

But Jesus taught that Hell is real, that some sins will cause a person to go there, and that God judges everyone at death. If you don’t believe in Hell, then you’re claiming to know more than Jesus.

Sorry. I might have misunderstood your other post to mean that you hoped that there were some crimes that were unforgivable, and that you hoped that anyone who committed an unforgivable crime went to hell (regardless) otherwise it would somehow less the glory of heaven. My post related to the idea of unforgivable sins, which (thankfully) don’t exist.

Pax,
OA

 

[OneSheep]

Sorry. I might have misunderstood your other post to mean that you hoped that there were some crimes that were unforgivable, and that you hoped that anyone who committed an unforgivable crime went to hell (regardless) otherwise it would somehow less the glory of heaven. My post related to the idea of unforgivable sins, which (thankfully) don’t exist.

Pax,
OA

I once heard a Catholic priest present a very interesting angle on “unforgiveable sin” which is referred to in Mark and Matthew. Jesus is about creating the Kingdom of God, that is, saving us from our nature, so to speak. A big part of that creating the Kingdom is forgiveness. If a person rejects the message of forgiveness altogether, then there is no hope of their knowing the unconditional love of God. When we don’t forgive, we don’t experience God’s unconditional love, all is in a state of unknowing. This priest said that Jesus’ contemporaries (though I think that it also speaks for people today) gauged relationship with God on how they felt. If a person felt forgiven, they believed God forgave them. If not, not. If they felt happy, God was smiling on them.

To summarize then, to be closed-minded about forgiveness psychologically blocks the possibility of fully experiencing God’s love. We can use the modern language to express the same thing that Jesus did, but the point is the same. Forgive, or life will be miserable. It will be hell.

This same priest said that the Bible should be taken literally, except when there appears to be a contradiction. He did not use this example, but Jesus telling us to forgive a gazillion times but “Abba” doesn’t forgive on particular condition (“well, aha, blasphemy? Shuck that one in the eternal pit!”) is a contradiction. I think, however, that the contradiction contained, for example, in the story of the unforgiving servant is genius. I have great reverence for the storyteller.