How do we have free will?

[CeaselessMedik]

Or, stated another way, how does it work? Science suggests that our brain functions are physically deterministic, so how can we have free will? I’m not asking for “the Bible says so,” but rather how it works.

 

[DavidFilmer]

The problem with your question is that it is based in the scientific principle of determinism.

Determinism means that the future behavior of a system is determined by its current state and the physical laws that govern it (and any unbalanced forces applied in the future). Given sufficient understanding, we could predict the future behavior of a system. At one time, for example, it was thought we could someday predict the weather years in advance, if we could just get a good enough understanding of the weather right now.

The problem with determinism is that it was Nineteenth Century (1800’s) science (very Newtonian based). Nobody (in the scientific community) believes it anymore. Now we have quantum physics, which brings us true scientific randomness and complete wackiness at the very fundamental level of existence itself.

The firing of a brain synapse is an electro-chemical event - which is a quantum event (it’s every bit as much a quantum event as radioactive decay, which is the touchstone example).

So, rather than being physically deterministic, our brain functions are absolutely random.

Either determinism or randomness precludes free will being a function of the brain. Therefore, the answer to your question is that free will (if such a thing exists) has nothing to do with the brain. Maybe there’s something inside us besides our brains that helps govern our behavior. Theologians call this a “spirit” or a “soul.”

Scientists don’t like that answer, so they come up with a variety of bizarre answers. One example, which was ridiculed when it was first proposed but has been gaining traction, is the “many worlds” theory. This idea maintains that every time a quantum event occurs (where one thing or another might happen - completely at random), BOTH events occur, because an entire universe is spawned for each event (and more universes spawned for every subsequent choice), leading to a not-quite-infinite (the opposite of “small but nonzero”) number of overlapping universes. Other than being “ontologically extravagant,” the theory nicely answers a lot of questions. So, when you decided NOT to kill your boss, in another universe you DID kill your boss, and you’re sitting in jail.

 

[CeaselessMedik]

Are quantum events truly random, or could it be we have no inkling of how to predict them? How do we know?

 

[Razanir]

This of it this way. How did you ask the question?

To ask it, first you had to read something about determinism. Then you had to understand the words. Then you had to think about it. Then you had to formulate your question. Then you had to log on to the CAF. Then you had to start a new thread. Then you had to type it. Then you had to hit submit.

And for any of us to answer it, first we had to go online. Then we had to see the thread. Then we had to decide to read it. Then we had to read it. Then we had to understand it. Then we had to formulate responses. Then we had to type them.

And for you to respond, you had to think to check back on the thread. Then you had to read our responses. Then you had to understand them. Then you had to formulate a response. Then you had to type it.

I think you get the point.

If you go with determinism that random quantum mechanics determine our actions. And if you then go with the multiverse theory that there are separate universes for each random possible decision. Then there must be A LOT of universes where we show mindless behavior. In the context of determinism, think of how many things could have gone wrong and lead to mindless behavior. To me, at least, that would preclude any sort of notion of a soul and free will.

So one of two things must be true:

1. Science is right. Our thoughts are completely deterministic and we’re privileged to be living in one of the infinitely unlikely universes where we experience mindful behavior.
2. There’s something more to determining our behavior than just determinism. A soul perhaps?

 

[Richca]

Or, stated another way, how does it work? Science suggests that our brain functions are physically deterministic, so how can we have free will? I’m not asking for “the Bible says so,” but rather how it works.

Human beings are a composite being composed of a soul and a body. Our souls are a spiritual substance because we have an intellect and free will. By our intellect and free will we are made in God’s image. Our souls are not composed of matter unlike our body. Because our intellect and will are spiritual, they are not dependent on the physical laws of nature and of matter. Our body may tell us we are hungry, but we can choose to starve ourselves to death. Our intellect and will rule the body though the body at times seem to rebel against the spirit, i.e. our intellect and will, as St Paul says.
Our body and soul function as a unity. The soul was not made for the body but the body is for the soul. For our soul has various powers such as the vegetative and sensory powers which require a body or bodily organ to function. For example, the sensory power of sight requires an eye or eyes to function properly. Our intellect and will function independently of any bodily organ although it is natural for our intellect to acquire knowledge through the senses. It does this through a process of abstraction.
When we die, our body ceases to exist but our soul lives on. Our souls are immortal because since it is a spiritual substance, it cannot be corrupted into various parts as the things made of matter can be such as our bodies. At our death, our souls either go to heaven, purgatory, or hell. On the last day, we believe that God will again unite our bodies to our souls.

 

[drafdog]

Do you want to see how it works?
Bach
Beethoven
Mozart
Paganini
Degas
Van Gogh
Monet
Leoncavallo
Verdi
Rivera
…

Reb Levi

 

[DavidFilmer]

Are quantum events truly random, or could it be we have no inkling of how to predict them? How do we know?

Well, that’s getting quite a bit off-topic, but I will respond because the answer actually has a theological perspective which falls back to the original question.

The idea of randomness (mainly promoted by Niels Bohr) was not well received by early quantum physicists. A paper known as the EPR Paradox (“E” stands for Einstein, the paper’s primary author) promoted a “missing variable” idea - there is some additional force acting upon the system that we have not accounted for, and if we understood that force then quantum events would become deterministic.

Theologians call the “missing variable” God.

 

[The_Serpent]

I speculate that free will is based on the interaction of the higher brain functions and the lower brain functions. The basic passions of all animals include the desire for food, pleasure and sex, anger when threatened or frustrated. The five senses feed the lower functions of the brain that respond to the stimuli with desire for the object perceived by the senses. The free will exists in the interaction of the passions of the lower brain (medulla) with the intellectual or thinking part of the brain (Cerebrum) , with all the morality and philosophical views you embrace or were taught. The resolution of the two is free will, you chose!

:banghead:

 

[AndrewW94]

You have a spiritual soul that allows you to make decisions.

For a human act, you need to understand something. Understanding, of itself, requires an immaterial soul. Though computers may give the illusion that they understand things, they do not. They are, basically, rocks arranged in a specific way (or, if you prefer, tinker toys). It is not possible for rocks, or a carefully arranged collection of rocks, to have an understanding of substances–humans must have an immaterial soul. However, though the understanding is a faculty of the soul, the brain is used as an instrument. Perhaps it is possible to examine the brain and tell what someone is willing. I don’t know. But this is irrelevant. All that is required for free will is that the brain’s activity be caused by the soul.

 

[bzkoss236]

Or, stated another way, how does it work? Science suggests that our brain functions are physically deterministic, so how can we have free will? I’m not asking for “the Bible says so,” but rather how it works.

I think the simplest concept of free will at work is:

Someone is given a choice between two options.
He has equal reasons for choosing either of them.
And he has to make a choice and chooses one over the other.

To expound upon this. When it says equal reasons, this includes the deterministic idea of past events. It means that including every interaction leading up to that choice, the person has no reason to prefer one over the other and the person is still able to make a choice.

 

[fhansen]

Or, stated another way, how does it work? Science suggests that our brain functions are physically deterministic, so how can we have free will? I’m not asking for “the Bible says so,” but rather how it works.

We have free will as we can choose to exercise more or less love. Does the rapist have to rape? Does the torturer have to torture? Does the murderer have to murder? Does the liar or gossiper or cheater have to lie, gossip, or cheat?

 

[fisherman_carl]

Or, stated another way, how does it work? Science suggests that our brain functions are physically deterministic, so how can we have free will? I’m not asking for “the Bible says so,” but rather how it works.

If it were true that our brain is deterministic then wouldn’t that be evidence for an immaterial mind? Since we experience the ability to make moral choices. We can for instance choose to sin or not. Granted if we are conditioned through habit to do a certain sin then it is more difficult not to do it. But even habits can and have been broken by many people with God’s help.

There are certainly aspects of our body that happen automatically like for instance the heart beat. However, there are things we have control over like what we choose to do with our time.