How do we interpret Romans 6:6?

[Robert_Sock]

“We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”
–Romans 6:6

The concept of self has a very deep psychological meaning. Entire books have been written on this construct. But what is the bible referring to with the notion of crucifying the “old self” so “we might no longer be enslaved by sin?” It sounds like the “old self” is a mechanism which enslaved us to the power of original sin.

It may be useful to first provide a definition of “self.” Taken from Wikipedia: The self is an individual person as the object of his or her own reflective consciousness.

It sounds like the “old self” is a false image based on our reflective consciousness. It also sounds like the old self can be destroyed by disrupting our reflective consciousness, so as to become selfless. In this way I suspect that the mind is able to become aware of the consciousness of God by becoming Christ-like. Is this what monks and hermits seek in their meditations and contemplations?

 

[TimothyH]

The concept of “Self” was addressed at length in Blessed John Paul II’s catechesis commonly referred to as Theology of the Body.

TOB was 129 general audiences. It is large work. You might try to get a copy of “Theology of the Body Explained” by Christopher West as he covers what John Paul II said about self conciousness, the body, our senses relative to self created in God’s image as well as how we experience “Self”.

You can browse the texts of the audiences here. I seem to recall that the subject of “Self” was addressed early in the series but cannot be sure.

-Tim-

 

[juliamajor]

compare with Eph. 4:22; Col.3:9; Gal.2:20;Col.2:12;romans 7:24. getting rid of the old self

 

[thistle]

“We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”
–Romans 6:6

The concept of self has a very deep psychological meaning. Entire books have been written on this construct. But what is the bible referring to with the notion of crucifying the “old self” so “we might no longer be enslaved by sin?” It sounds like the “old self” is a mechanism which enslaved us to the power of original sin.

It may be useful to first provide a definition of “self.” Taken from Wikipedia: The self is an individual person as the object of his or her own reflective consciousness.

It sounds like the “old self” is a false image based on our reflective consciousness. It also sounds like the old self can be destroyed by disrupting our reflective consciousness, so as to become selfless. In this way I suspect that the mind is able to become aware of the consciousness of God by becoming Christ-like. Is this what monks and hermits seek in their meditations and contemplations?

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 3 - 6. We…are baptized in his death. Greek, unto his death. The apostle here alludes to the manner of administering the sacrament of baptism, which was then done by immersion or by plunging the person baptized under the water, in which he finds a resemblance of Christ’s death and burial under ground, and of his resurrection to an immortal life. So must we after baptism rise to lead a quite different life: having been also, when we were baptized and made Christians, planted as branches ingrafted in Christ, let us endeavour to bring forth the fruits of a virtuous life. (Witham) — Old man…body of sin. Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man. And the vices and sins which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin. (Challoner) — The old and sinful man we must look upon as crucified with him, and the body of sin, or our sinful body, destroyed. We must look upon ourselves as dead to sin, and that we must sin no more, as Christ being once risen, dies no more. (Witham)

 

[Robert_Sock]

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 3 - 6. We…are baptized in his death. Greek, unto his death. The apostle here alludes to the manner of administering the sacrament of baptism, which was then done by immersion or by plunging the person baptized under the water, in which he finds a resemblance of Christ’s death and burial under ground, and of his resurrection to an immortal life. So must we after baptism rise to lead a quite different life: having been also, when we were baptized and made Christians, planted as branches ingrafted in Christ, let us endeavour to bring forth the fruits of a virtuous life. (Witham) — Old man…body of sin. Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man. And the vices and sins which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin. (Challoner) — The old and sinful man we must look upon as crucified with him, and the body of sin, or our sinful body, destroyed. We must look upon ourselves as dead to sin, and that we must sin no more, as Christ being once risen, dies no more. (Witham)

Thanks for the thoughtful commentary! I understand that the phrase “old self” can be replaced with “old man,” depending on the translation of the bible. This to me is really a moot point. The true purpose of the post was to see if we could identify a psychological mechanism to account for the persistence of our corrupt nature. This is where I identify the “self” as such a mechanism. It’s profound to me that our very “self” can be thought of as the root of intrinsic evil. Here, the “self” is really an impostor within us; the “self” is an artificial psychological construct that gives arise to sin. Again, can the killing of the “self” give arise to a risen Christ-like consciousness of God? It’s through the resurrection of Christ that a pure consciousness of God can reach our inner awareness, as long as we henceforth avoid the occasion of sin.

 

[Chesster]

Aquinas commentary:

First, therefore: We have said that the baptized should walk in newness of life. To anyone who says that this is impossible he responds that we know our old self, i.e., the oldness caused by sin, was crucified with him, i.e., put to death by the Cross of Christ. For as was stated above, man’s oldness was brought about by sin – in the sense that the goodness of his nature was corrupted by sin – and is predominant as long as he continues in sin. But because what is predominant in a man characterizes the man himself, it follows that the oldness of sin in a man subject to sin is an apt description of the man himself. That is why he says the old self.

 

[dmwallace82]

The word translated as “self” in Rom 6:6 is, in Greek, anthrōpos, the ordinary word for “man.” Paul is speaking of a metaphor, but a metaphor (or sign or symbol) which is “sacramental,” in the sense that underlying his metaphor is a true reality. As Paul says in 2 Cor 5:17, “if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.” When the translator uses “self,” I don’t think we are to over psychologize St. Paul.

“Because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit” (Rom 5:5) through the sacrament of Baptism, that is, “by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life” (Tit 3:5-6), we become “new creations” who are “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet 1:4) as adopted children of God (cf. Rom 8:15-17).

 

[The_Centurion]

“We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”
–Romans 6:6

The concept of self has a very deep psychological meaning. Entire books have been written on this construct. But what is the bible referring to with the notion of crucifying the “old self” so “we might no longer be enslaved by sin?” It sounds like the “old self” is a mechanism which enslaved us to the power of original sin.

It may be useful to first provide a definition of “self.” Taken from Wikipedia: The self is an individual person as the object of his or her own reflective consciousness.

It sounds like the “old self” is a false image based on our reflective consciousness. It also sounds like the old self can be destroyed by disrupting our reflective consciousness, so as to become selfless. In this way I suspect that the mind is able to become aware of the consciousness of God by becoming Christ-like. Is this what monks and hermits seek in their meditations and contemplations?

This is what I found from the Haydock commentary.

(Witham) — Old man…body of sin. Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man. And the vices and sins which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin. (Challoner) — The old and sinful man we must look upon as crucified with him, and the body of sin, or our sinful body, destroyed. We must look upon ourselves as dead to sin, and that we must sin no more, as Christ being once risen, dies no more. (Witham)

haydock1859.tripod.com/id150.html

 

[The_Centurion]

Looks like someone already posted haydocks so please ignore my above response.

 

[The_Centurion]

Thanks for the thoughtful commentary! I understand that the phrase “old self” can be replaced with “old man,” depending on the translation of the bible. This to me is really a moot point. The true purpose of the post was to see if we could identify a psychological mechanism to account for the persistence of our corrupt nature. This is where I identify the “self” as such a mechanism. It’s profound to me that our very “self” can be thought of as the root of intrinsic evil. Here, the “self” is really an impostor within us; the “self” is an artificial psychological construct that gives arise to sin. Again, can the killing of the “self” give arise to a risen Christ-like consciousness of God? It’s through the resurrection of Christ that a pure consciousness of God can reach our inner awareness, as long as we henceforth avoid the occasion of sin.

I don’t believe the mechanism that is the cause of our fallen nature is found in the body but rather in the soul which is the source of our free will. I would say the corruption which is in the will is what makes us more inclined toward sin.

 

[COPLAND_3]

This is from the Aquinas Study Bible

6:6 our old man: That is, the inclination and habit of sin, which is from us and not from God. (Interlinear Gloss) crucified with him: Meaning that we were nailed to the cross of Christ because our sins have been fastened upon his cross, that is, blotted out and put to death. (Haimo of Auxerre Gal 2:19) body of sin: This body of sin means either the totality of sin, whose members are fornication, uncleanness, avarice, etc., or else it means our body itself as infected from its very origin by the poison of the ancient serpent. (William of St. Thierry)

 

[Mintaka]

The whole point of being a human is that we are one integrated organism, body and soul, eternal and temporal. Original sin infests (before Baptism) and concupiscence affects (after Baptism) both body and soul. Your soul is a seat of your self, but so is your arm and your brain and all the rest of you. We aren’t Gnostics; we don’t believe the body is just some sort of cocoon or robot suit operated by the soul. The resurrection of the body is desirable, because the soul and the body are meant to be together and both lose something apart.

Prudentius’ funeral hymn is very good about this.

Oh, and of course “anthropos” is man in the sense of human of either gender. Like a lot of Indo-European languages, there’s a word for man, for woman, and for human. I point this out, because we don’t want people to think that only men have the old man to deal with.