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Cruciferi
Guest
Our situation has not improved. 
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AlbMagno
Guest
I donāt believe in soul sleep but I like to believe in an intermediate theory: that, as Eternity is outside time, after death we experience immediately the Resurrection of the Body and the Second Coming. And pre-Christ humans experience immediately the New Covenant.
This way, the Final Judgement and the Particular Judgement are unified and some mind-body problems in theology would be solved.
I know it isnāt part of the Magisterium, but it makes so much sense to me. If I ever study theology, I would like this to be my thesis.
I owe this theory to this apologetics site: https://apologia21.wordpress.com/
This way, the Final Judgement and the Particular Judgement are unified and some mind-body problems in theology would be solved.
I know it isnāt part of the Magisterium, but it makes so much sense to me. If I ever study theology, I would like this to be my thesis.
I owe this theory to this apologetics site: https://apologia21.wordpress.com/
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anon91549587
Guest
Has this always been the case in the history of the catholic church ? Now you got me curious because my grandfather didnt want to be cremated either but had to due to land shortage issues in our country.
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Fauken
Guest
Are you saying that our beliefs are born out of a love of sin?
That means nothing if you donāt understand the actual teaching. And considering that you believe that Catholics and Jews believe in purgatory because we love sin, your understanding is minimal at best.
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EloyCraft
Guest
Gen 4
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
She is thinking she is the generator.
Later she says this.
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Her perspective has changed by thetime Seth isborn.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
Repentace is the how that happened.
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
She is thinking she is the generator.
Later she says this.
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Her perspective has changed by thetime Seth isborn.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
Repentace is the how that happened.
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PetraG
Guest
I donāt think Adam ever had a liturgical feast day. (As for Eve, I donāt think the old calendar had any women from the Old Testament on it, did it?)
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Techno2000
Guest
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ARTICLE 5
āHE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAINā
631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476 The Apostlesā Creed confesses in the same article Christās descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, āhellā - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into āAbrahamās bosomā:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abrahamās bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483
634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesusā messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christās redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, āthe Author of lifeā, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds āthe keys of Death and Hadesā, so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488
636 By the expression āHe descended into hellā, the Apostlesā Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil āwho has the power of deathā (Heb 2:14).
637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heavenās gates for the just who had gone before him.
ARTICLE 5
āHE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAINā
631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476 The Apostlesā Creed confesses in the same article Christās descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, āhellā - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into āAbrahamās bosomā:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abrahamās bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483
634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesusā messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christās redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, āthe Author of lifeā, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds āthe keys of Death and Hadesā, so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488
636 By the expression āHe descended into hellā, the Apostlesā Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil āwho has the power of deathā (Heb 2:14).
637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heavenās gates for the just who had gone before him.
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Techno2000
Guest
CHAPTER LIX
A Detached Account of the Descent into Hell
Excerpts :
WHEN Jesus, after uttering a loud cry, expired, I saw his heavenly soul under the form of a bright meteor pierce the earth at the foot of the Cross, accompanied by the angel Gabriel and many other angels. His Divine nature continued united to his soul as well as to his body, which still remained hanging upon the Cross, but I cannot explain how this was, although I saw it plainly in my own mind. The place into which the soul of Jesus entered was divided into three parts, which appeared to me like three worlds; and I felt that they were round, and that each division was separated from the other by a hemisphere.
I beheld a bright and beautiful space opposite to Limbo; it was enamelled with flowers, delicious breezes wafted through it; and many souls were placed there before being admitted into Heaven after their deliverance from Purgatory. Limbo, the place where the souls were waiting for the Redemption, was divided into different compartments, and encompassed by a thick foggy atmosphere. Our Lord appeared radiant with light and surrounded by angels, who conducted him triumphantly between two of these compartments; the one on the left containing the patriarchs who lived before the time of Abraham, and that on the right those who lived between the days of Abraham and St. John Baptist. These souls did not at first recognise Jesus, but were filled nevertheless with sensations of joy and hope. There was not a spot in those narrow confines which did not, as it were, dilate with feelings of happiness. The passage of Jesus might be compared to the wafting of a breath of air, to a sudden flash of light, or to a shower of vivifying dew, but it was swift as a whirlwind. After passing through the two compartments, he reached a dark spot in which Adam and Eve were standing; he spoke to them, they prostrated and adored him in a perfect ecstasy of joy, and they immediately joined the band of angels, and accompanied our Lord to the compartment on the left, which contained the patriarchs who lived before Abraham. This compartment was a species of Purgatory, and a few evil spirits were wandering about among the souls and endeavouring to fill them with anxiety and alarm. The entrance through a species of door was closed, but the angels rapped, and I thought I heard them say, āOpen these doors.ā When Jesus entered in triumph the demons dispersed, crying out at the same time, āWhat is there between thee and us? What art thou come to do here? Wilt thou crucify us likewise?ā The angels hunted them away, having first chained them. The poor souls confined in this place had only a slight presentiment and vague idea of the presence of Jesus; but the moment he told them that it was he himself, they burst out into acclamations of joy, and welcomed him with hymns of rapture and delight.
Continue-
http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION6.htm#CHAPTER LIX
A Detached Account of the Descent into Hell
Excerpts :
WHEN Jesus, after uttering a loud cry, expired, I saw his heavenly soul under the form of a bright meteor pierce the earth at the foot of the Cross, accompanied by the angel Gabriel and many other angels. His Divine nature continued united to his soul as well as to his body, which still remained hanging upon the Cross, but I cannot explain how this was, although I saw it plainly in my own mind. The place into which the soul of Jesus entered was divided into three parts, which appeared to me like three worlds; and I felt that they were round, and that each division was separated from the other by a hemisphere.
I beheld a bright and beautiful space opposite to Limbo; it was enamelled with flowers, delicious breezes wafted through it; and many souls were placed there before being admitted into Heaven after their deliverance from Purgatory. Limbo, the place where the souls were waiting for the Redemption, was divided into different compartments, and encompassed by a thick foggy atmosphere. Our Lord appeared radiant with light and surrounded by angels, who conducted him triumphantly between two of these compartments; the one on the left containing the patriarchs who lived before the time of Abraham, and that on the right those who lived between the days of Abraham and St. John Baptist. These souls did not at first recognise Jesus, but were filled nevertheless with sensations of joy and hope. There was not a spot in those narrow confines which did not, as it were, dilate with feelings of happiness. The passage of Jesus might be compared to the wafting of a breath of air, to a sudden flash of light, or to a shower of vivifying dew, but it was swift as a whirlwind. After passing through the two compartments, he reached a dark spot in which Adam and Eve were standing; he spoke to them, they prostrated and adored him in a perfect ecstasy of joy, and they immediately joined the band of angels, and accompanied our Lord to the compartment on the left, which contained the patriarchs who lived before Abraham. This compartment was a species of Purgatory, and a few evil spirits were wandering about among the souls and endeavouring to fill them with anxiety and alarm. The entrance through a species of door was closed, but the angels rapped, and I thought I heard them say, āOpen these doors.ā When Jesus entered in triumph the demons dispersed, crying out at the same time, āWhat is there between thee and us? What art thou come to do here? Wilt thou crucify us likewise?ā The angels hunted them away, having first chained them. The poor souls confined in this place had only a slight presentiment and vague idea of the presence of Jesus; but the moment he told them that it was he himself, they burst out into acclamations of joy, and welcomed him with hymns of rapture and delight.
Continue-
http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION6.htm#CHAPTER LIX
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Adam and Eve may not have been on the liturgical calendar, but they had a traditional/ regional feast in Europe up to medieval times, celebrated on December 24. There are many sources on the web including Aleteia and Taylor Marshall that talk about this and say that the Christmas tree came at least partly from the custom of hanging apples, or some other decoration, on a tree or a tree-like pyramid on Dec. 24 to commemorate Adam and Eve.
Apparently them having a regional feast was based on a tradition that because they had repented, they both went to Heaven in the end.
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SetInMotion
Guest
Oh, I do understand, just fine, in a detail that most are not prepared to address. Not one, even in this thread, has demonstrated otherwise. To merely assume I do not understand would be a very poor position to take upon your part.
However, the thread is not about me, though some seem to want to make it about me. The question is dealing with Adam and a question of āknowledgeā thereof regarding his present location and state therein.
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BartholomewB
Guest
You flatter yourself. No one is making the thread āabout you.ā In answer to the OPās question, you posted an assertion about the afterlife that is characteristic of Seventh Day Adventist beliefs. And yet, when I asked you, āAre you a Seventh Day Adventist?ā, you are taking a surprisingly long time to make up your mind about what ought to be an easy, straightforward Yes or No answer. Itās been nine hours so far. If you still donāt know the answer after nine hours, itās beginning to look as though you never will.
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SetInMotion
Guest
Indeed, a belief held by many, as I cited previously. I am a seeker of Truth. Thank you for asking.
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BartholomewB
Guest
Still no answer, I see. On the off chance that one day you may find it possible to make up your mind, donāt forget to come back and let us know. In the meantime, goodbye. Take care!
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Well, neither was soul sleep if we are going to be precise
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TheLittleLady
Guest
There were times in the past when cremation was considered a pagan practice.
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SetInMotion
Guest
Again, I was addressing the question, from the perspective of those who do not take the pagan platonic dualistic and teleological philosophical view. Those names were given.Well, neither was soul sleep if we are going to be precise
The question asked, āHow do we knowā¦ā, and thus the answer from the perspective given, is he can āknowā no such thing.
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PetraG
Guest
I meant that although that is a reasonable conclusion, the Church hasnāt said that explicitly in the form of placing them on the liturgical calendar. The answer to the OPās question seems to be that the Church hasnāt formally made a statement on the matterā¦but perhaps someone here will turn up something of that nature that I had never heard before.
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Gingersnaps4
Guest
The Early Church never believed in soul sleep. The Apostles Creed was first seen in writing in the year 390 (and so probably known orally even earlier) and it clearly mentions the Communion of Saints. You can see from this link that people in the early church spoke about it as early as the year 233. Sorry you are wrong on this.
http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_intercession.htm
http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_intercession.htm
Itās very interesting to know about the possible origins of apple Christmas ornaments, weāve always had them on our trees and Iāve wondered about that! Thatās really cool that that tradition possibly has such old roots.
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dochawk
Guest
Sounds like a disguised, āyesā . . .
His profile showed him as suspended until September 23 . . .
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BartholomewB
Guest
He deserved it. Not so much for this thread, more for the Dinosaur thread.
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