The difference is certainly the scenario surrounding the death. Same with Stalin, pull people out of the ranks of military they aren’t dying for Stalin.
The difference being - they the apostiles would not of died for a lie - Jesus did rise from the dead or it would of ended right there at the grave - I highly doubt they would of continued and died for a lie. I don’t think anyone would unless they are crazy.St. Paul also who was a very religious Jew dropped his faith and died for Christ which really has to make you think - was he invovled in the conspiracy you sujest - it doesn’t fit what your saying.
If you read the newspaper, (oh right, what’s that?–I’m dating myself!!) you may notice that people die for or because of lies all the time In fact, there is parto fo the brain whose job it is to make whatever you think right, not matter what, unto death! Just look around, Angel. Not that Jesus was lying, it’s that people do readily die for lies.
Individuals. Not hundreds in separate locations and places for the same lie.
Uh, no, that is exactly what I mean.
Jon, I’m sorry, but you are just plain incorrect on this one. In my lifetime I have seen similar things many times over. Add to that the fact that most nation’s today would just let the Apostles go.
I think we need to choose our words carefully here. Even in the examples you gave, those individuals did not die for a lie. In the immortal words of George Costanza: “'it’s not a lie if you believe it.”
They died for something that wasn’t true, but that’s different from dying for a lie.I want to convert question. What will we gain if Jesus is God but not just a prophet. I mean what will it be advantage for us if God incarnate in a body? Does not God send prophet in His name? And won’t who believed prophet get salvation? There must be anything more?
The question of “where is the body” has been addressed in a book called “Who moved the stone” by Frank Morris, an unbeliever who studied the matter to prove once and for all that Jesus was not the Messiah. At the end of his inquiry, he came to believe.
This is an important point that started me thinking a bit differently. The twelve and the hundreds around them who knew Jesus, listened to Him speak and witnessed his actions had an opportunity to form an opinion. His teaching went against everything a Jew believed.
If you want to find an answer to this, you need to stop thinking about Mohamed (just for a moment) and think about Jesus. Then, stop thinking of Jesus as Issa the prophet, and just think of Jesus in the New Testament. Then, read what he did and said. Just read the New Testament. I am sure it is available in Arabic. And then, think about it.
Please give me a hard and fast example. The ones you have given are not remotely similar. Certainly not heavens gate.
It is obvious that any example that I would give would be futile, but I’ll add the frequent self-immolation of monks during the Vietnam era. Christians view them as following a false religion, yet they died willingly for peace and to call attention to their own persecution.
Wish there was a “like” button on here. How about Jews? All the victims of religious pogroms in the middle east, Asia, etc? Pagans who died rather than convert to Catholicism/Christianity by force, or died in the burning of libraries by Christians?
It is as difficult to prove that Jesus is God, as it is to prove beyond a doubt that God himself exists.
Jesus clearly claimed to be God. Here is a passage from the Gospel of Mark:
(Mark 14:61, Douay-Rheims Version) drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=48&ch=14&l=62#x Emphasis mine.
Oh please, if you are going to engage,l do your research. Christ said He and the Father were one. And when He asked Peter who Peter thought He was, Peter answered, " …You are the Son of the Most High, the Living God…" And there are other similar statments like, " …If you do My Will, I and the Father will come and make Our abode in you…" Shall I go on? Why don’t you read a good Catholic Bible?. And why don’t you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church so you will know what we actually do believe? It really is annoying when atheists, etc. come in here making all kinds erroneous statements, come prepared…
Thanks for the advice, Linus2nd. Actually I was on the edge of joining a seminary and had won some awards for knowledge of Catholic theology. Also, though amateur, have studied the historic context of the “Catholic” Bible, as well as the common self-referential dogma based inquiry. From here, those phrases could mean something very congruent with panentheism. And then there are all the problems commensurate with translation, collections, meaning, level of understanding of recorders, witnesses, scholars, etc. So, sorry, didn’t mean to step on your sensitive toes, was just asking. Not up to some mental stretches? Wasn’t necessary to slam, eh?
The possible examples would keep us up for days. There will always be people willing to die for a cause…good or bad. It is just a fact of human behavior.