how do we know our forgiveness is sufficient?

[distracted]

i pray for the ones who have done evil against me

but sometimes i get angry when i think about the things they have done and how it has affected not only me but… my ability to do things for others… I could easily get over the stuff if it was just me the abusers harmed… but others are affected as well…

so anyhow… if you get @ a person you claim to have forgiven…

does that show you haven’t forgiven the person “from the heart” as per St Mt 18;23??

 

[twopekinguys]

Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting, but maybe you should include yourself in those prayers.

Asking God to soften your heart.

 

[distracted]

Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting, but maybe you should include yourself in those prayers.

Asking God to soften your heart.

i don’t want to have a soft heart…

i hate those people…

many a truth… oh never mind…

anyhow…

you don’t think praying for the ones who have harmed me… is soft enough???

 

[Loboto-Me]

I do as you, pray for those who have harmed me, then I add that these people be blessed with His grace.

I pray the rosary each day, and many times I offer a decade for those that I have harmed through my own sins throughout my life, that these may be healed and bestowed special blessings.

A prayer to ask help to forgive
**Lord when we cannot manage to forgive, we ask You to forgive the offender for us, however many times it takes, and we pray for our offender, that You may touch their souls, and heal them and us. **

Father help us to recover where injury goes beyond ordinary forgiveness and our hearts are in some way crushed, and our lives changed and devalued. Help us to find a way to forgive when we cannot smile or encounter the offending person with warmth because they have destroyed something in us.

Father please help us to forgive when we cannot forgive…and we cannot forgive because they do not understand how badly they have hurt us, and do not seek in any real way to acknowledge or try to heal the hurt they imposed on us. And even when we tried to tell them from the bottom of our heart but they would not listen, please help us to forgive.

Father help us to forgive when those who hurt our lives do not even remember how badly they have wounded us, and go on with their lives without concern, while we remain still held in some kind of time capsule with the consequences of their unfeeling and uncaring and attack.

**Father, help us to forgive when those who wounded us by ignoring our needs and requests, yet who desire us to ignore their offence, and expect us to respond to their hints or manipulations while they make no concessions or apologies. **

Help us to forgive those who impose their own conditions and rules upon us, without respecting that our hurt is real and radical, while they make us feel that they only desire our capitulation without justice, apology, or generosity from them.

Father please free us, free me, in forgiveness that comes from Your Son, innocent, and murdered, but forgiving.

 

[twopekinguys]

i don’t want to have a soft heart…

i hate those people…

many a truth… oh never mind…

anyhow…

you don’t think praying for the ones who have harmed me… is soft enough???

I think you need to pray for a softer heart, and really look into what forgiveness really is.

Let me tell you a little story.

When I was married, it was not a pretty situation. Alot of bad things happened, and the marriage ended.

My exwife, to this day doesn’t think she did anything wrong.

I have forgiven her for all of that, and have moved on. We still encounter each other quite frequently, and get along pretty well. Heck, we have all had Thanksgiving dinner together.

Having said that, I don’t dwell on the past. I forgave her for those things, it is over and done with.

If I were to constantly dwell on the things that happened, it would only affect me, and the way I behave. It wouldn’t affect her, so what is the point?

Keep in mind, even though I have forgiven her, I haven’t forgotten what happened, and I don’t allow myself to get into situations that may get out of control.

Remember, Jesus said to love our enemies, not to mention, how many times are we supposed to turn the other cheek?

 

[Della]

It might help if you understand why some people are abusive. Often it’s because they were also abused. Abusers often are people who are deeply angry and take out their anger on others, and so a vicious cycle of abuse goes on and on.

Knowing this, that abuse hurts the abuser as much as the abused and that anger causes more abuse should help to cool your own anger. It’s why St. Paul quoted the proverb “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord”.

Our fellow human beings are poor, wounded sinners just like us. Those who give in to their anger end up hurting others, as well as themselves. Forgiveness is learning to let go of our anger because anger will rule our actions if we don’t. It’s not about the abuser, it’s about you and if you are going to let the abuser keep on abusing you because you won’t forgive and see him as another human being in need.

If you can help stop the abuser, then by all means do so. But just hanging onto your hurt and anger won’t help you or anyone else.

 

[distracted]

I do as you, pray for those who have harmed me, then I add that these people be blessed with His grace.

I pray the rosary each day, and many times I offer a decade for those that I have harmed through my own sins throughout my life, that these may be healed and bestowed special blessings.

A prayer to ask help to forgive
**Lord when we cannot manage to forgive, we ask You to forgive the offender for us, however many times it takes, and we pray for our offender, that You may touch their souls, and heal them and us. **

Father help us to recover where injury goes beyond ordinary forgiveness and our hearts are in some way crushed, and our lives changed and devalued. Help us to find a way to forgive when we cannot smile or encounter the offending person with warmth because they have destroyed something in us.

Father please help us to forgive when we cannot forgive…and we cannot forgive because they do not understand how badly they have hurt us, and do not seek in any real way to acknowledge or try to heal the hurt they imposed on us. And even when we tried to tell them from the bottom of our heart but they would not listen, please help us to forgive.

Father help us to forgive when those who hurt our lives do not even remember how badly they have wounded us, and go on with their lives without concern, while we remain still held in some kind of time capsule with the consequences of their unfeeling and uncaring and attack.

**Father, help us to forgive when those who wounded us by ignoring our needs and requests, yet who desire us to ignore their offence, and expect us to respond to their hints or manipulations while they make no concessions or apologies. **

Help us to forgive those who impose their own conditions and rules upon us, without respecting that our hurt is real and radical, while they make us feel that they only desire our capitulation without justice, apology, or generosity from them.

Father please free us, free me, in forgiveness that comes from Your Son, innocent, and murdered, but forgiving.

wow… that was really something… Do you know this person who has caused the problems (?) … hmm…

there are more than one in my mind when i posted… but this one in particular… those words describe that person to a t…

so… not that i am going to take your advice or anything… …but don’t you think its best to stay completely away from someone who… is in major denial about where you are at… and doesn’t w ant to come out of the denial… and talk about things in a mature way?? in other words, when the person doesn’t give a flying rip??

 

[distracted]

I think you need to pray for a softer heart, and really look into what forgiveness really is.

Let me tell you a little story.

When I was married, it was not a pretty situation. Alot of bad things happened, and the marriage ended.

My exwife, to this day doesn’t think she did anything wrong.

I have forgiven her for all of that, and have moved on. We still encounter each other quite frequently, and get along pretty well. Heck, we have all had Thanksgiving dinner together.

Having said that, I don’t dwell on the past. I forgave her for those things, it is over and done with.

If I were to constantly dwell on the things that happened, it would only affect me, and the way I behave. It wouldn’t affect her, so what is the point?

Keep in mind, even though I have forgiven her, I haven’t forgotten what happened, and I don’t allow myself to get into situations that may get out of control.

Remember, Jesus said to love our enemies, not to mention, how many times are we supposed to turn the other cheek?

i know all that… but… i am sure you don’t spend massive amoutns of time with your ex…? i dont know if what she did was worse than what… i will call this person in my life Imp for Impossible ) did to me… but if its anything remotely like it…

i say we should stay away… cuz for one thing the Word says not to be unequally yoked with unbelivers… and you will know belivers by their fruits… not just the fact that they go to Church… Heck, i’ve seen bugs in Church… are they saved just cuz they are there???

 

[Loboto-Me]

Not everyone has the choice to stay away from people who hurt us.
And the best thing to do is ask God for help to forgive, and to pray for this/these people. Look at the end of that prayer "Father please free us, free me, in forgiveness that comes from Your Son, innocent, and murdered, but forgiving." THIS is the best thing to do.

 

[distracted]

It might help if you understand why some people are abusive. Often it’s because they were also abused. Abusers often are people who are deeply angry and take out their anger on others, and so a vicious cycle of abuse goes on and on.

Knowing this, that abuse hurts the abuser as much as the abused and that anger causes more abuse should help to cool your own anger. It’s why St. Paul quoted the proverb “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord”.

Our fellow human beings are poor, wounded sinners just like us. Those who give in to their anger end up hurting others, as well as themselves. Forgiveness is learning to let go of our anger because anger will rule our actions if we don’t. It’s not about the abuser, it’s about you and if you are going to let the abuser keep on abusing you because you won’t forgive and see him as another human being in need.

If you can help stop the abuser, then by all means do so. But just hanging onto your hurt and anger won’t help you or anyone else.

i do not hang onto my hurt and anger… like i said, i pray for the person…

it is only once in a blue moon that i think about certain things and start getting angry or irritated all over again… and even then i manage to calm myself down w/ some scripture passage or whatever…

i know that abusive people have been hurt and are angry… but to me that’s not much of an excuse… .esp when the person is supposed to be a devout Christian…

the only time i find myself taking back my forgivenes… if only half-heartedly… is when i have to have something to do with that person… someone talks about the person or whatever… so i stay away… If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off…

 

[distracted]

Not everyone has the choice to stay away from people who hurt us.
.

thanks for reminding me how blessed i am…

 

[twopekinguys]

i know all that… but… i am sure you don’t spend massive amoutns of time with your ex…? i dont know if what she did was worse than what… i will call this person in my life Imp [for Impossible ) did to me… but if its anything remotely like it…

i say we should stay away… cuz for one thing the Word says not to be unequally yoked with unbelivers… and you will know belivers by their fruits… not just the fact that they go to Church… Heck, i’ve seen bugs in Church… are they saved just cuz they are there???

Actually, I have quite a few dealings with my ex. We do have a son together, and now a grandson., so there are quite a few encounters.

I won’t go into detail about what happened between me and my ex, because she is not here to defend herself against what I might say.

Suffice it so say, the things that transpired could in no way be considered trivial. But, like I said earlier, I have forgiven her. I don’t hate her. I am social and cordial with her, and her family.

Me hating her would only hurt me, and I have better things to focus my attention on than to dwell on or in the past.

We have to choose to forgive, and we have to choose to hate.

I will let you make your own choice.
[/quote]

 

[Della]

i do not hang onto my hurt and anger… like i said, i pray for the person…

Are you sure? It’s bothering you enough to ask for advise. Just saying.

it is only once in a blue moon that i think about certain things and start getting angry or irritated all over again… and even then i manage to calm myself down w/ some scripture passage or whatever…

Emotions are like wild horses–they need to be tamed and reined in. It’s something one learns to do with time and practice.

i know that abusive people have been hurt and are angry… but to me that’s not much of an excuse… .esp when the person is supposed to be a devout Christian…

No one is excusing abusive behavior. Knowing why people abuse ought to engender some compassion in our hearts. There’s no such thing as a person without sin (with very rare exceptions). Not one of us is in the position to judge another person’s heart/soul. We need to learn to accept others’ failings so we can love them as Christ loves them. That isn’t easy. It means giving up the relish of thinking ourselves better for the bitter reality that we aren’t.

the only time i find myself taking back my forgivenes… if only half-heartedly… is when i have to have something to do with that person… someone talks about the person or whatever… so i stay away… If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off…

When you hear something about the person who hurt you, pray for him right on the spot. Don’t give anger an entryway into your heart. Say, “God help and bless him” for truly he needs God’s help and God wants to bless him with goodness, which is what you should also want for him. Loving our enemies is hard, but it’s not impossible.

 

[distracted]

Actually, I have quite a few dealings with my ex. We do have a son together, and now a grandson., so there are quite a few encounters.

I won’t go into detail about what happened between me and my ex, because she is not here to defend herself against what I might say.

Suffice it so say, the things that transpired could in no way be considered trivial. But, like I said earlier, I have forgiven her. I don’t hate her. I am social and cordial with her, and her family.

Me hating her would only hurt me, and I have better things to focus my attention on than to dwell on or in the past.

We have to choose to forgive, and we have to choose to hate.

I will let you make your own choice.

i don’t have to prove my forgiveness by allowing myself to be abused all over again… i have made a choice to stay away and i will continue to do so… I have tried and tried and tried to resolve the issues… You can’t negotiate with a brick wall…

it is wrong for you to lead others (not me, but others here) into thinking that the only true forgiveness is when you stay involved w/ the abuser…

 

[ohioszo]

I also have had/still have your experience with an individual who will not be out of my life due to her being my sister. I have even prayed that other family members will recognize that she has a personality disorder and not to believe everything that she says.

I just heard on sports radio that a person may feel better when they are at a sports event, where crowds of people root for one side. It is a social benefit to one’s psyche, I guess. Certain people may get together and enjoy ganging up on another person, too?

When I went to confession, I said that I went somewhere with her, a trip to the art museum, and the Priest at that time said it wasn’t enough. Why wasn’t that a good effort?!

She asks me to sew for her, to clean her house, and she says things in front of others to stir up sympathy for herself and reflect badly on me … even to the point of telling someone I teased her husband away from her!

Even when I wish her well, and pray for her, she doesn’t take advantage of opportunities offered: marriage - even though the fellow turned her into a normal happy person, a better job - which may give more dignity and satisfaction to her life.

At a small group prayer meeting someone had said how she said the same sin over and over, and, it was about a relationship … I simply avoid doing that and eventually confession gets better … it is hard to go to confession 'cause I was going to confession in order to become a holier person, but now it is dealing with the ordinary stuff you mentioned … total immersion in a bad relationship.

The latest: I told her that her depression or near depression was affecting everyone, not just herself as she thought. That she needed to focus on good memories and hope rather than the pain of her ankle arthritis. Evidently a Priest gave her a book to live in the moment and she took that advice literally. It is the ankle pain and a good movie, in the moment.

Oh, well, maybe it helps to know that God, even warning us, somehow doesn’t prevent us to fall in this trap of a bad relationship with someone, a relationship that is harmful. God does warn us. I actually see blinking lights on a parked auto … crazy maybe … but those blinking lights tell me to watch out, something is ahead! It could be just my mercurial sister.

 

[distracted]

Are you sure? It’s bothering you enough to ask for advise. Just saying.

Emotions are like wild horses–they need to be tamed and reined in. It’s something one learns to do with time and practice.

No one is excusing abusive behavior. Knowing why people abuse ought to engender some compassion in our hearts. There’s no such thing as a person without sin (with very rare exceptions). Not one of us is in the position to judge another person’s heart/soul. We need to learn to accept others’ failings so we can love them as Christ loves them. That isn’t easy. It means giving up the relish of thinking ourselves better for the bitter reality that we aren’t.

When you hear something about the person who hurt you, pray for him right on the spot. Don’t give anger an entryway into your heart. Say, “God help and bless him” for truly he needs God’s help and God wants to bless him with goodness, which is what you should also want for him. Loving our enemies is hard, but it’s not impossible.

wasn’t asking for advice… just wanted (name removed by moderator)ut… You are never supposed to offer advice when “counseling”. anyhow…

i haven’t read the entire post… i’ve actually heard enough… Somehting told me not to bother making this new thread…

i should have known it would be the same old same old… judging me… saying i havn’t really forgiven … or implying that…

saying that i think i am better than someone else… implying that…

i never thought i would ask the Mods to close my own thread… but uh… there’s a 1st time for everything…

 

[distracted]

I also have had/still have your experience with an individual who will not be out of my life due to her being my sister. I have even prayed that other family members will recognize that she has a personality disorder and not to believe everything that she says.

I just heard on sports radio that a person may feel better when they are at a sports event, where crowds of people root for one side. It is a social benefit to one’s psyche, I guess. Certain people may get together and enjoy ganging up on another person, too?

When I went to confession, I said that I went somewhere with her, a trip to the art museum, and the Priest at that time said it wasn’t enough. Why wasn’t that a good effort?!

She asks me to sew for her, to clean her house, and she says things in front of others to stir up sympathy for herself and reflect badly on me … even to the point of telling someone I teased her husband away from her!

Even when I wish her well, and pray for her, she doesn’t take advantage of opportunities offered: marriage - even though the fellow turned her into a normal happy person, a better job - which may give more dignity and satisfaction to her life.

At a small group prayer meeting someone had said how she said the same sin over and over, and, it was about a relationship … I simply avoid doing that and eventually confession gets better … it is hard to go to confession 'cause I was going to confession in order to become a holier person, but now it is dealing with the ordinary stuff you mentioned … total immersion in a bad relationship.

The latest: I told her that her depression or near depression was affecting everyone, not just herself as she thought. That she needed to focus on good memories and hope rather than the pain of her ankle arthritis. Evidently a Priest gave her a book to live in the moment and she took that advice literally. It is the ankle pain and a good movie, in the moment.

Oh, well, maybe it helps to know that God, even warning us, somehow doesn’t prevent us to fall in this trap of a bad relationship with someone, a relationship that is harmful. God does warn us. I actually see blinking lights on a parked auto … crazy maybe … but those blinking lights tell me to watch out, something is ahead! It could be just my mercurial sister.

frankly i didn’t understand your whole post… the wording is a little… hard for me to get…

but i get the general gist of the thing, i reckon…

contrary to waht some may tell you, forgiveness does not have to involve being closely ivnovled with the peson who offends… hurts… In fact, speaking for myself only… i do better in the forgiveness dept when i am FAR from the people…

i stay away from all the people who hurt me… which includes family members… fortunately we dont live close by anyhow… but i dont email them… they play sick mind games w/ me… which causes a disturbance in my soul… esp since these people are supposed 2b christians… well, i am sorry but they dont fit my definition of the word… if that makes me judgmental, people can call me that to their freaking heart’s content… and they have here @ CAF and i know they always will … but anyhow… that’s their problem… not mine…

it hurts to be separated from certain people u used to be close to… but it hurts more (for me anyhow) to be involved… and i have work to do for God… If i get depressed &/or disturbed over waht some ****** relationship is doing to me… i get less done… I am not going to propogate evil…

sometimes people need to be shown in a very clear way that what they are doing is not acceptable…

wondering if you have tried distancing yourself??

 

[St_Francis]

…

1. You do not have to have anything to do with the person if you do not want to and can stay away from that person without doing harm. The one poster *had *to continue dealing with his ex-wife because they had a child together, and his staying away from her would have hurt his son, other other because it was her sister. But sometimes for our own protection we need to minimize or eliminate time with a relative as well, as long as it does no harm.
2. It is very normal for the pain of a hurt or betrayal to come back to us, and then we have to go through the process of forgiving over again. In the same way, sometimes the shame of something that we have done comes back to us, even after we have confessed it.

If when the pain and anger come back to you, you pray for the person and offer up your pain to Christ, then you are *willing *to do what is right.

Think of the pain and anger returning like that as a temptation. You are being tempted to do something wrong, like not forgive that person or maybe even committing a wrong against that person. Do your thoughts linger over your anger? Do you think about taking revenge? These types of thoughts can be sinful if you *decide *to “entertain” them. But if when you get angry all over again, which is totally normal, your thoughts turn to forgiveness and praying for the other person, then you are doing the right thing.

 

[Della]

frankly i didn’t understand your whole post… the wording is a little… hard for me to get…

but i get the general gist of the thing, i reckon…

contrary to waht some may tell you, forgiveness does not have to involve being closely ivnovled with the peson who offends… hurts… In fact, speaking for myself only… i do better in the forgiveness dept when i am FAR from the people…

i stay away from all the people who hurt me… which includes family members… fortunately we dont live close by anyhow… but i dont email them… they play sick mind games w/ me… which causes a disturbance in my soul… esp since these people are supposed 2b christians… well, i am sorry but they dont fit my definition of the word… if that makes me judgmental, people can call me that to their freaking heart’s content… and they have here @ CAF and i know they always will … but anyhow… that’s their problem… not mine…

it hurts to be separated from certain people u used to be close to… but it hurts more (for me anyhow) to be involved… and i have work to do for God… If i get depressed &/or disturbed over waht some ****** relationship is doing to me… i get less done… I am not going to propogate evil…

sometimes people need to be shown in a very clear way that what they are doing is not acceptable…

wondering if you have tried distancing yourself??

I won’t apologize for writing what you need to know. And you can take out your anger on me if you want–it’s all right. People often do “hit back”, so to speak when the truth hits too close to home. You started a thread on a public forum. If you didn’t want advice/counseling you needn’t have bothered. But since you did, I responded, and I responded correctly. You need to heed what those with many years experience have to say to you. That’s how we learn and grow. Accusing me of things I never implied or wrote isn’t going to help you. Only you can help you by doing what is right and good. That’s all I have to say.

 

[twopekinguys]

After getting involved with this thread, I did a little more thinking.

I have to say, after all the problems I had with my ex wife, and all the years I have spent in law enforcement, I can honestly say, I have forgiven each and everyone of them.

I refuse to hold a grudge. Even with those people who have shot at me…

I have found that when I encounter people that have hurt me, or shot at me, and they try to bring it up in some way, I just change the subject, or say something like, “That’s old news.”

If I held a grudge with everyone that ever took a shot at me (gun, fist, voice or otherwise), that anger would consume me.

I thank God that he has given me the ability to put bad things behind me.