How do we know that God is good?

[Oreoracle]

Doesn’t everyone prefer to live without being in fear, deprived of freedom or lacking the basic necessities of life?

Well, the desire to not be afraid is universal, yes, but an attempt to abolish fear would nonetheless result in many conflicts between preferences because people fear different things. The average person fears terrorists, and would therefore prefer the government to provide more security. Meanwhile, others perceive a promise of security to be threatening in itself, such as the paranoid folk who think that governments are filled to the brim with conspiracies against the masses. Ultimately, a moral code trying to remove the experience of fear would be like a restaurant trying to remove the experience of bad taste; since what causes fear and what causes food to taste bad differs from person to person, you can’t expect a large success rate.

But don’t concern yourself too much with that point, because I’ve been trying to make a larger point here. The crux of the matter is that although it is “objectively true” (as Christians are fond of saying) that people have preferences, nothing is telling us that what we want should matter. There’s nothing in nature that says, “You ought to value certain preferences.” That is a personal judgment each individual makes for themselves–these valuations are subjective.

And this applies to anyone’s preferences, God’s or otherwise. God, if he exists, might have opinions, but nothing tells us (objectively, anyway) that what God wants should count for anything. That is a personal judgment individuals make.

Morality is concerned with the most important things.

Morality is in the business of dictating what’s important. Your statement is therefore tautological.

Morally or intellectually preferable is not the same as materially preferable.

…

When you really love others you’re not even aware of yourself because you put yourself in their place and feel what they feel.

Nothing you say here is in disagreement with my position. I have not stated that people can’t empathize; I’ve stated that people prefer to act based on their empathy in such cases. Quite simply, if you care about something or someone, acting to protect it or them is, in a sense, selfish, because you care about them. The only selfless action would be one in which you protect something or someone you don’t care about, which could only be described as accidental.

Name one time that you’ve stated that immaterials exist!

A person can fail to be a materialist without stating that immaterial objects exist. Merely allowing for the possibility of immaterial objects is enough to make one a non-materialist. I admit that they’re possible, but I see no reason to believe in them.

Don’t you live as if God doesn’t exist and religion is superstition?

How different am I from a Christian who doesn’t attend a church?

That’s because we are living according to our cultural heritage which is spiritual rather than materialistic.

I wouldn’t say that I indulge in spiritual activities, nor do most of my peers. Sure, certain customs of today were derived from rituals in the past, but that doesn’t mean they exist in the same context today. For example, I see Christmas as a joyous holiday, not the celebration of Jesus.

You assert that we have intentions without being able to explain their origin. I don’t have to explain them because I believe they are more fundamental than atomic particles. If you disagree and cannot explain why you are in a weaker position because you have nothing to offer.

Emergent properties are “cloaks of ignorance” when thought and self-control are **supposed **to be derived from atomic particles.

What about the mind?

Once again, I’m not a biology major. Ask someone who’s knowledgeable in the subject. Heck, I’m sure you could find some answers in a biology textbook. But I suspect you aren’t actually curious.

 

[tonyrey]

Doesn’t everyone prefer to live without being in fear, deprived of freedom or lacking the basic necessities of life?

Can you name a reasonable preference which overrides the need for security against terrorist attacks?

Meanwhile, others perceive a promise of security to be threatening in itself, such as the paranoid folk who think that governments are filled to the brim with conspiracies against the masses.

Morality is concerned with reasonable needs.

Ultimately, a moral code trying to remove the experience of fear would be like a restaurant trying to remove the experience of bad taste; since what causes fear and what causes food to taste bad differs ?

A reasonable moral code is related to **genuine **threats to life, security and freedom.

But don’t concern yourself too much with that point, because I’ve been trying to make a larger point here. The crux of the matter is that although it is “objectively true” (as Christians are fond of saying) that people have preferences, nothing is telling us that what we want should matter. There’s nothing in nature that says, “You ought to value certain preferences.” That is a personal judgment each individual makes for themselves–these valuations are subjective.

So you believe individuals have nothing whatsoever in common?

And this applies to anyone’s preferences, God’s or otherwise. God, if he exists, might have opinions, but nothing tells us (objectively, anyway) that what God wants should count for anything. That is a personal judgment individuals make.

So it doesn’t matter whether opinions are true or false?

Morality is concerned with the most important things.

Morality is in the business of dictating what’s important. Your statement is therefore tautological.

Morality is in the business of distinguishing good and evil, right and wrong, just and unjust.

Morally or intellectually preferable is not the same as materially preferable.

Material preferences may lead to moral and intellectual decadence.

When you really love others you’re not even aware of yourself because you put yourself in their place and feel what they feel.

Nothing you say here is in disagreement with my position. I have not stated that people can’t empathize; I’ve stated that people prefer to act based on their empathy in such cases. Quite simply, if you care about something or someone, acting to protect it or them is, in a sense, selfish, because you care about them. The only selfless action would be one in which you protect something or someone you don’t care about, which could only be described as accidental.

Genuine caring about others is unselfish because you are more concerned about them than yourself - and if necessary you sacrifice yourself for them.

Name one time that you’ve stated that immaterials exist!

A person can fail to be a materialist without stating that immaterial objects exist. Merely allowing for the possibility of immaterial objects is enough to make one a non-materialist. I admit that they’re possible, but I see no reason to believe in them.

Nor to take them into account in your daily life. Sartre pointed out that it is impossible to be uncommitted.

Don’t you live as if God doesn’t exist and religion is superstition?

How different am I from a Christian who doesn’t attend a church?

It depends on the reasons why he doesn’t attend church and whether he lives according to the teaching of Christ.

That’s because we are living according to our cultural heritage which is spiritual rather than materialistic.

I wouldn’t say that I indulge in spiritual activities, nor do most of my peers. Sure, certain customs of today were derived from rituals in the past, but that doesn’t mean they exist in the same context today. For example, I see Christmas as a joyous holiday, not the celebration of Jesus.

Yet you accept the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity which are based on the teaching of Jesus.

You assert that we have intentions without being able to explain their origin. I don’t have to explain them because I believe they are more fundamental than atomic particles. If you disagree and cannot explain why you are in a weaker position because you have nothing to offer.

Emergent properties are “cloaks of ignorance” when thought and self-control are supposed to be derived from atomic particles.

What about the mind?

Once again, I’m not a biology major. Ask someone who’s knowledgeable in the subject. Heck, I’m sure you could find some answers in a biology textbook. But I suspect you aren’t actually curious.

It is not a biological question unless you assume biology can explain everything about human nature - in which case we are biological computers which lack autonomy, insight and control over our mental and physical activity.

 

[William_of_Ware]

This is a very simple questions which I don’t think requires a lot of explanation.

I want to know how we know that God is good, as opposed to just powerful.

I’ll try to answer this carefully and simply:

Imagine that someone is evil, is being immoral a perfection? does being immoral add to his greatness? is an evil person a better sort of person because he’s evil?

NO.

On the contrary, you would say that he’s defective, imperfect, less great.

Assume that a perfect, infinite being does exist. now imagine that he’s evil…do you see a contradiction between being perfect and supremely evil?

Correct, you cannot have a being that is both perfect and evil since evil is a flaw, an imperfection.

Therefore if a perfect being does exist he cannot be evil or immoral, otherwise he would be imperfect.

Now, to forestall an obvious objection, “why is there evil if God is perfect?”

If you think god can create a world without evil you assume he can create a perfect world. is the idea of a perfect world possible? no.
For every possible great world I can imagine, you can imagine an even better one and then I can imagine an even greater world than yours and so on. We fall into what is called an infinite regress.

long story made short: the universe cannot be perfect, only God can be perfect.

I hope I was clear, if you found the above confusing or have another question, let us know.

 

[joshrp]

This is a very simple questions which I don’t think requires a lot of explanation.

I want to know how we know that God is good, as opposed to just powerful.

God is the best. No one is better than Him. If anything were better than Him, then that thing would be God, and He wouldn’t be. It seems silly, but it’s an irony that makes a point, and gets you to think about what God is, and why He is good. If anything else could be more good than God, that would be God, and God would not be God. If God is not good, then everything else in the universe is not good. Because God created everything that exists, besides Himself. If anything in the universe is good, then God must be good, because He created it. So the question is, is anything in the universe good? Well, love is good. Creativity is good. Justice is good. Hope is good. Faith is good. Mankind is good. Life is good. Beauty is good. Science is good. Art is good. Music is good. Poetry is good.

So God must be good.

 

[greylorn]

Yet you accept the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity which are based on the teaching of Jesus.

Your propensity to make up any nonsense that will support your opinions is becoming seriously overindulged. Maybe you should show some personal integrity and give your need to be right at any cost a rest. At least take a week off from it.

Liberty, equality, and fraternity are the components of a slogan which evolved from the mix of nitwits who gave up shining careers as goatherds and pig farmers to become the behind-the-scenes (meaning out of the line of fire) intellectuals involved in the ritualized bloodletting known as the French Revolution.

Christ taught nothing of the sort.

You might want to consider a career change. Given the coming takeover of England by your Muslims, goat herding could become a profitable business, which might give you enough spare time to read more and become informed; or it might keep you so busy that you won’t have time to post. A win, either way.

 

[tonyrey]

Yet you accept the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity which are based on the teaching of Jesus.

You’re as entertaining as ever but your post doesn’t address the issue…

 

[jonfawkes]

Can you name a reasonable preference which overrides the need for security against terrorist attacks?

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

–BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755

 

[tonyrey]

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

–BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755

The key words are “essential” and “a little temporary”. You need to specify what is essential and a little. If you are living in constant fear for your life you lose much of your liberty…

 

[jonfawkes]

The key words are “essential” and “a little temporary”. You need to specify what is essential and a little. If you are living in constant fear for your life you lose much of your liberty…

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 17:33[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Sonny1954]

…Those in Hell are there because they chose to be. God gave them the chance to repent, to accept His love but they refused. Those who are merely powerful do not accept repentance, they would not give second chances.

That’s what scares me the most. How do I accept God’s love? I don’t feel love from God. I don’t feel love for God. No credit to me, but I’ve attended mass on Sundays and holydays since I was 5 or 6, but I seem untouched by it. I know what it is to love my parents, my brothers, my wife, my sons, my dearest friends…there’s no doubt in my mind that I love them. But I don’t know if I love God or not. Doesn’t that mean that I’m probably rejecting Him and “sending myself” to Hell, even though that is the LAST place I want to be?

 

[alwaysseeking]

The very word God is the old English word for good. We call God good because from our human perspective good involves the things that heal and comfort us. Jesus came showing us what God would be like to us as human beings, he healed us, he forgave us, he taught us to be kind and loving, generous and gentle with one another. These are ways that I think God is telling us that He is a benevolent Creator whose will for us is only goodness. This “kingdom”, His reign is present right now and we awaken to this reality as we learn more and more about God. We call the essential nature of God and His action upon us “good” because to our relative point of view, the opposite, “bad” are things that cause chaos, strife, pain, sorrow. “Suffering is not of God,” said Mother Teresa. “God is Love,” said St. John. If God is Love, then we have to experience His very beingness, His very presence to us, as something that blesses us, something that lifts us out of suffering. We would not desire to approach a “bad” God, one who curses, condemns, hurts us. God shows us His goodness in and through His power to heal, to uplift, to save us from our limited views of life, of ourselves, of others. This He shows us in what He does, in examples throughout the Bible, in Jesus’ life, in the lives of the saints who became so close to God as to know Him intimately, experience the Truth of Him profoundly. We too can come so close to God and experience what that closeness brings to us in corrections, blessings, guidance, healing, so much so that the only conclusion we can come to is that He is immense Love, Truth, blessing, goodness, as He tells us He is in the Bible and through the constant nurturing He provides us through His Church. All of this is indeed good, blessing and not cursing, nurture and not abandonment, care and not dismissal. In these ways we can come to know that God is good.

 

[alwaysseeking]

To Sonny1954 -
The very love with which you love your family and friends IS the love of God. You are feeling it, accepting it, “consenting” to it, knowing it by the very act of expressing it. If God created everything, and He did, then He is also the author of Love. You are already knowing God’s love and accepting that love by the very natural and inherent expression of that love in your life. It isn’t only a mental consent of ours, that is basically the pot believing that it somehow needs to consent to the potter’s action on it. That’s not really how it works. You ARE God’s expression. He expresses Himself in you, as you. You are His work, His creation. You naturally express all of His qualities. You know His love innately. And you can experience more and more of it by giving it, which you do by loving others. We can also learn more of God’s love by learning to think with Him. Try to think about how God is seeing you right now, His perfect creation. He would naturally approve of you, guide you, correct you, provide for you. The very fact that you exist shows that He is holding you in existence right this moment. That is the ultimate of Love. This Potter doesn’t smash His pots! He cares for them! Look at all the good in your life. This is the very evidence of God’s love and care for you, you are naturally aware of it and know it. We often just take it for granted, all this great good all around us, but when we stop and really pay attention, even in the midst of hardship, there are flowers blooming, beautiful sunsets, dogs expressing loyalty and unconditional love, etc. etc. All of these qualities all around us are God’s good embrace. Nothing exists without Him, so all these good qualities are of Him, by Him. He made all that is good. The nonsense comes from our mistaken views and beliefs and fears trying to fog over God’s good creation. You are the very expression of His love. It doesn’t really take so much effort to know or consent to this love. It is just inherent. Keep loving, keep doing good and looking for the good and you will know more and more that all goodness is of and from God and you are a very part of it!

 

[jonfawkes]

The very word God is the old English word for good. We call God good because from our human perspective good involves the things that heal and comfort us. Jesus came showing us what God would be like to us as human beings, he healed us, he forgave us, he taught us to be kind and loving, generous and gentle with one another. These are ways that I think God is telling us that He is a benevolent Creator whose will for us is only goodness. This “kingdom”, His reign is present right now and we awaken to this reality as we learn more and more about God. We call the essential nature of God and His action upon us “good” because to our relative point of view, the opposite, “bad” are things that cause chaos, strife, pain, sorrow. “Suffering is not of God,” said Mother Teresa. “God is Love,” said St. John. If God is Love, then we have to experience His very beingness, His very presence to us, as something that blesses us, something that lifts us out of suffering. We would not desire to approach a “bad” God, one who curses, condemns, hurts us. God shows us His goodness in and through His power to heal, to uplift, to save us from our limited views of life, of ourselves, of others. This He shows us in what He does, in examples throughout the Bible, in Jesus’ life, in the lives of the saints who became so close to God as to know Him intimately, experience the Truth of Him profoundly. We too can come so close to God and experience what that closeness brings to us in corrections, blessings, guidance, healing, so much so that the only conclusion we can come to is that He is immense Love, Truth, blessing, goodness, as He tells us He is in the Bible and through the constant nurturing He provides us through His Church. All of this is indeed good, blessing and not cursing, nurture and not abandonment, care and not dismissal. In these ways we can come to know that God is good.

This doesn’t give the whole picture though -

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 45:7[/BIBLEDRB]

God does create suffering - look at the story of Job. A more basic example is

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 4:11[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Lamentations 3:38[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[tonyrey]

The key words are “essential” and "a little

Jesus obviously didn’t mean that we, our families and our community don’t have the right to live in security and freedom from fear. He means that we shouldn’t stake everything on this life - and our own life in particular. We should still be prepared to die for others and for the sake of what is right rather than be concerned about saving our own skin.

 

[jonfawkes]

Jesus obviously didn’t mean that we, our families and our community don’t have the right to live in security and freedom from fear. He means that we shouldn’t stake everything on this life - and our own life in particular. We should still be prepared to die for others and for the sake of what is right rather than be concerned about saving our own skin.

How is that different? We are all going to die - it’s inevitable, it’s how we live that is important. If we are in hiding we aren’t living. If we give up our freedom, we aren’t living, we’re hiding. The martyrs weren’t concerned about security and fear. They lived their Christian lives not worrying about the consequences.

 

[David_Castlen]

This is a very simple questions which I don’t think requires a lot of explanation.

I want to know how we know that God is good, as opposed to just powerful.

**Let me give it a try:

Anything that exist must have had a maker. We will call the maker God.
What exist (I have found) is beautiful. I only wish I was a wordsmith to describe the beauty of this life, this cosmos.
So if the maker makes beautiful things could we conclude that He is good; good being a quality of beauty.

Objections:
Some beautiful things are not (necessarily) good.
Just because a maker makes something good that does not make him good.

I think there is someone out there that can handle these objections. Where are you?
**

 

[alwaysseeking]

This doesn’t give the whole picture though -

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 45:7[/BIBLEDRB]

God does create suffering - look at the story of Job. A more basic example is

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 4:11[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Lamentations 3:38[/BIBLEDRB]

Some statements in the Bible are relative statements, relative to the human viewpoint, some are absolute, the ultimate facts of God. The quotes listed are from the Old Testament where God is spoken of as both good and evil, the “fruit” of the false-knowledge from the tree of “good AND evil”. The first creation account in Genesis I gives us a God who says of all that He creates that it is “good…good…very good.” An absolute statement. Once humanity tampers with what they were told not to, then they believe in good and evil and are afraid of God…fear came in with this belief in evil attached to a wholly good God. Job too is a relative statement to begin with…God “let” the devil torment Job…Job after reasoning deeply with the other voices ends with an absolute statement…God did not cause the evil. God is good. That which perceives evil is the mortal, physical senses, sight, hearing, which lead to mortal belief. Spiritual sense moves above these physical senses and begins to perceive the kingdom as it remains intact in God, as He has created it and declared it finished. We misperceive because we rely on the physical senses and interpretations of these perceptions that have been handed down to us by other people, by the world. The spiritual life begins to lift above all of this where, “the flesh availeth nothing,” as Jesus put it, meaning the flesh is not what mainly benefits from spiritual sight, it itself being non-eternal. “There is but one good, that is God.” Jesus taught us that evil is a perception that can disappear upon the touch of God, the revelation of Truth. The New Testament is more full of absolute statements than the Old Testament. We are to read the Old in light of the New where Jesus is revealing to us the original Truth of a good God. The misperceptions begin to dissolve and we move forward with him, follow him, into the new understanding, the new realization, the kingdom of heaven, that is always present, intact, but is not being perceived. Even quantum physics is revealing that things are not as they seem, the physical senses deceive us all the time. This is touching the hem of spiritual truth. It is a lot to ponder on and reason through and we are being asked, pushed, I think, to really reason things through, and to try to do it starting from God and with God. It is a deep subject and no one post can say it all. I like to think, at the most basic level that Jesus basically called God, “Daddy”. He wouldn’t have, couldn’t have done that if he anticipated or knew in his deepest experience rather than intellect a God capable of evil. We are to follow him at least in wondering then what the Old Testament is trying to say by portraying God as some sort of warrior god who dishes out both good and evil. A house divided against itself cannot stand, as Jesus told us. If God created both good and evil, He would have been self-destroyed at the start, Creation couldn’t have made any sense at all.

 

[djintheburg]

How do we know that God is good?

Faith.

 

[jonfawkes]

Some statements in the Bible are relative statements, relative to the human viewpoint, some are absolute, the ultimate facts of God. The quotes listed are from the Old Testament where God is spoken of as both good and evil, the “fruit” of the false-knowledge from the tree of “good AND evil”. The first creation account in Genesis I gives us a God who says of all that He creates that it is “good…good…very good.” An absolute statement. Once humanity tampers with what they were told not to, then they believe in good and evil and are afraid of God…fear came in with this belief in evil attached to a wholly good God. Job too is a relative statement to begin with…God “let” the devil torment Job…Job after reasoning deeply with the other voices ends with an absolute statement…God did not cause the evil. God is good. That which perceives evil is the mortal, physical senses, sight, hearing, which lead to mortal belief. Spiritual sense moves above these physical senses and begins to perceive the kingdom as it remains intact in God, as He has created it and declared it finished. We misperceive because we rely on the physical senses and interpretations of these perceptions that have been handed down to us by other people, by the world. The spiritual life begins to lift above all of this where, “the flesh availeth nothing,” as Jesus put it, meaning the flesh is not what mainly benefits from spiritual sight, it itself being non-eternal. “There is but one good, that is God.” Jesus taught us that evil is a perception that can disappear upon the touch of God, the revelation of Truth. The New Testament is more full of absolute statements than the Old Testament. We are to read the Old in light of the New where Jesus is revealing to us the original Truth of a good God. The misperceptions begin to dissolve and we move forward with him, follow him, into the new understanding, the new realization, the kingdom of heaven, that is always present, intact, but is not being perceived. Even quantum physics is revealing that things are not as they seem, the physical senses deceive us all the time. This is touching the hem of spiritual truth. It is a lot to ponder on and reason through and we are being asked, pushed, I think, to really reason things through, and to try to do it starting from God and with God. It is a deep subject and no one post can say it all. I like to think, at the most basic level that Jesus basically called God, “Daddy”. He wouldn’t have, couldn’t have done that if he anticipated or knew in his deepest experience rather than intellect a God capable of evil. We are to follow him at least in wondering then what the Old Testament is trying to say by portraying God as some sort of warrior god who dishes out both good and evil. A house divided against itself cannot stand, as Jesus told us. If God created both good and evil, He would have been self-destroyed at the start, Creation couldn’t have made any sense at all.

I think we are talking around the same point. God is the creator of all things. It is our relative perspective that says good/evil. To the bacteria it having life is good, to us it makes us sick and therefore evil. God created people and the bacterium - we and the bacterium are in conflict. God is outside our judgment of good and evil.

Everything that we judge as evil or good was created by God or else He is not the primal source. If There are things not created by God, then there is a co-creator. If there are co-creators that gives equality with God on one level, co-creation. We are taught that nothing is equal to God. He must be the creator of all.

 

[alwaysseeking]

I think we are talking around the same point. God is the creator of all things. It is our relative perspective that says good/evil. To the bacteria it having life is good, to us it makes us sick and therefore evil. God created people and the bacterium - we and the bacterium are in conflict. God is outside our judgment of good and evil.

Everything that we judge as evil or good was created by God or else He is not the primal source. If There are things not created by God, then there is a co-creator. If there are co-creators that gives equality with God on one level, co-creation. We are taught that nothing is equal to God. He must be the creator of all.

To the bacteria it reflects the Life of God and thus is an expression of good, it is only a belief that a bacteria makes us sick. Various bacteria have been around from the beginning, but only human fads of belief seem to cause a certain one to suddenly seem to “cause” illness. With one primal Cause, there can be no lesser multiple causes. This too is misperception. With One God to love with all our hearts, minds, souls, hearts, beingness we can rightly have no belief in other causes. We have only seeming other causes because of our misperception of reality. Nothing in God’s Creation can be in conflict, that is the house divided against itself and could not stand. We must “bind the strong man”, mortal material belief, so that the Truth of God’s Creation comes into view, sort of like waiting for the sun to burn off a fog. We see, “as through a glass darkly”, but then, “will see face to face”. I agree with you totally, “If there are things not created by God, then there is a co-creator.” Mortal mind tries to be that co-creator and convince us of a reality apart from God. The “serpent” thoughts we are mis-taught, taught to perceive, and pass to others, are misperceptions… “Wake thou that sleepest and God will give thee light.” Multiple times throughout the Bible we are told to awaken, wake up, open our true eyes, spiritual perception that does indeed perceive nothing equal to God. God is indeed All and in All. Our perceptions of evil are learned. We must unlearn them, think out from God, with God, how does HE see His creation. Then we begin to “have the mind that was in Christ Jesus”, God’s mind, the only Mind that can truly be said to exist and we exist in the Mind of God. In a manner of speaking, He thinks us into being and holds us there by continually thinking us, thus we partake of only His qualities, qualities that can only be good or they’d self-destruct, as evil indeed does. When someone experiences spiritual healing, where does the illness go? Nowhere, because it never truly existed in the first place except as a mortal erroneous belief and misperception of reality. Where does a dream go when we awaken? Nowhere, because it wasn’t true reality in the first place. In a sort of similar fashion we awaken to the Truth that is God, the ONLY Truth, a harmonious, benevolent universe because otherwise it would be self-contradictory and an inharmonious universe couldn’t exist at all. If evil had any self-existence then ultimate salvation could not be a FACT, and John in Revelation tells us that that old serpent, the “devil” that has grown into a 7 headed monster is CAST OUT FOREVER. Our illusions will not last, because they are as a dream we WILL awaken out of, like a fog that the sun will inevitably burn away and we “will see him as he is because we will be like him.” Knowing our true reality as His sons and daughters, His conceptions, His perfect, and good, and harmonious creation.