How do we know that God is good?

[jonfawkes]

To the bacteria it reflects the Life of God and thus is an expression of good, it is only a belief that a bacteria makes us sick. Various bacteria have been around from the beginning, but only human fads of belief seem to cause a certain one to suddenly seem to “cause” illness. With one primal Cause, there can be no lesser multiple causes. This too is misperception. With One God to love with all our hearts, minds, souls, hearts, beingness we can rightly have no belief in other causes. We have only seeming other causes because of our misperception of reality. Nothing in God’s Creation can be in conflict, that is the house divided against itself and could not stand. We must “bind the strong man”, mortal material belief, so that the Truth of God’s Creation comes into view, sort of like waiting for the sun to burn off a fog. We see, “as through a glass darkly”, but then, “will see face to face”. I agree with you totally, “If there are things not created by God, then there is a co-creator.” Mortal mind tries to be that co-creator and convince us of a reality apart from God. The “serpent” thoughts we are mis-taught, taught to perceive, and pass to others, are misperceptions… “Wake thou that sleepest and God will give thee light.” Multiple times throughout the Bible we are told to awaken, wake up, open our true eyes, spiritual perception that does indeed perceive nothing equal to God. God is indeed All and in All. Our perceptions of evil are learned. We must unlearn them, think out from God, with God, how does HE see His creation. Then we begin to “have the mind that was in Christ Jesus”, God’s mind, the only Mind that can truly be said to exist and we exist in the Mind of God. In a manner of speaking, He thinks us into being and holds us there by continually thinking us, thus we partake of only His qualities, qualities that can only be good or they’d self-destruct, as evil indeed does. When someone experiences spiritual healing, where does the illness go? Nowhere, because it never truly existed in the first place except as a mortal erroneous belief and misperception of reality. Where does a dream go when we awaken? Nowhere, because it wasn’t true reality in the first place. In a sort of similar fashion we awaken to the Truth that is God, the ONLY Truth, a harmonious, benevolent universe because otherwise it would be self-contradictory and an inharmonious universe couldn’t exist at all. If evil had any self-existence then ultimate salvation could not be a FACT, and John in Revelation tells us that that old serpent, the “devil” that has grown into a 7 headed monster is CAST OUT FOREVER. Our illusions will not last, because they are as a dream we WILL awaken out of, like a fog that the sun will inevitably burn away and we “will see him as he is because we will be like him.” Knowing our true reality as His sons and daughters, His conceptions, His perfect, and good, and harmonious creation.

So, distilled, all you are saying is there is no evil, just our perception of evil.

 

[alwaysseeking]

So, distilled, all you are saying is there is no evil, just our perception of evil.

Well, one must be careful with that because of course people will point to all the awful things that we see in our world. I’m saying that God couldn’t be the Cause of evil, so therefore it must have no real ultimate, eternal existence. Reasoning through with the Bible and the Church, as the late Pope John Paul II put it, heaven, hell, are states of mind, of consciousness if you will, of awareness. (Don’t quote me on that, I’m going from memory).And the Church teaches that we are constantly learning to see our deposit of faith in ever-expanding ways. The Vatican has a science segment, ever looking into these connections as well. We’re all learning to keep asking: What exactly is the nature of our life, of good, of God, of evil? We can ask ourselves, how did Jesus see us? What did he hope for us to understand? What is the most basic message of our Church? Love, to all three, in my way of thinking. What did the saints see? What kind of reality did they perceive? Weren’t they seeing past the limitations humanity typically holds itself captive to? When we strive to rise to that way of seeing, everything starts to look different. I like to use the example of those 3-d “magic eye” pictures that first look a jumble and then an image suddenly pops out. Learning spiritual ways is sort of like that, then old ways of perceiving simply do disappear and things formerly “hidden”, not hidden from reality, but from view, appear and we are, in a sense, reborn.

 

[jonfawkes]

Well, one must be careful with that because of course people will point to all the awful things that we see in our world. I’m saying that God couldn’t be the Cause of evil, so therefore it must have no real ultimate, eternal existence. Reasoning through with the Bible and the Church, as the late Pope John Paul II put it, heaven, hell, are states of mind, of consciousness if you will, of awareness. (Don’t quote me on that, I’m going from memory).And the Church teaches that we are constantly learning to see our deposit of faith in ever-expanding ways. The Vatican has a science segment, ever looking into these connections as well. We’re all learning to keep asking: What exactly is the nature of our life, of good, of God, of evil? We can ask ourselves, how did Jesus see us? What did he hope for us to understand? What is the most basic message of our Church? Love, to all three, in my way of thinking. What did the saints see? What kind of reality did they perceive? Weren’t they seeing past the limitations humanity typically holds itself captive to? When we strive to rise to that way of seeing, everything starts to look different. I like to use the example of those 3-d “magic eye” pictures that first look a jumble and then an image suddenly pops out. Learning spiritual ways is sort of like that, then old ways of perceiving simply do disappear and things formerly “hidden”, not hidden from reality, but from view, appear and we are, in a sense, reborn.

God is omnipresent. There is only God -

 

[acmw77]

How do we know that God is good? We know that God is good because he is the source and summit of all that exists. It would not make logical sense for a rational being such a God who is all knowing to intentionally create something bad. Intentionally creating something bad would not be a logical course of action. God is the essence by which good is defined. We and all of creation are good because the source from which we come (God) is good. To be bad is to redefine what reality or truth is to suit ones own purpose, which means one would be rejecting God’s reality. When one rejects God’s reality they are choosing to be god in defiance of God. They would be breaking the commandment that they not to have other gods.

Another way of thinking of this is to think of the possibility of someone other than God to be god. Basically I am saying lets make the assumption that we had a different god and thus a different creator of all that exists. If this were true we would have a different definition of good. God defines good and embodies its very nature.

Because Satan has rejected God he has redefined good for himself. To Satan God is evil and Satan in his own mind embodies the nature of good.

I

 

[tonyrey]

How is that different? We are all going to die - it’s inevitable, it’s how we live that is important. If we are in hiding we aren’t living. If we give up our freedom, we aren’t living, we’re hiding. :shrug:The martyrs weren’t concerned about security and fear. They lived their Christian lives not worrying about the consequences.

The temptation of Jesus by the devil to trust in Providence foolishly is a good lesson for us. He didn’t teach us that this life is worthless. On the contrary we glorify God by helping others who are in need, not to seek a quick exit and evade our obligations.

We’re not in the same situation as the martyrs who had to choose between renouncing their faith or dying…

 

[jonfawkes]

The temptation of Jesus by the devil to trust in Providence foolishly is a good lesson for us. He didn’t teach us that this life is worthless. On the contrary we glorify God by helping others who are in need, not to seek a quick exit and evade our obligations.

We’re not in the same situation as the martyrs who had to choose between renouncing their faith or dying…

Where did I say life is worthless? Or to seek a quick exit? It harder to stand up for your beliefs than to cave for convenience. It is the right thing to do. That is the lesson of the Martyrs.

 

[tonyrey]

Where did I say life is worthless? Or to seek a quick exit? It harder to stand up for your beliefs than to cave for convenience. It is the right thing to do. That is the lesson of the Martyrs.

You implied that we don’t have the right to live in security and freedom from fear…

 

[jonfawkes]

You implied that we don’t have the right to live in security and freedom from fear…

No, I said we shouldn’t trade our freedom for security.

 

[fred_conty]

This is a very simple questions which I don’t think requires a lot of explanation.

I want to know how we know that God is good, as opposed to just powerful.

“no greater love does a man have than to lay down his life for his friends.”
“I call you friends…”
Jesus of Nazereth, the love of our life.

 

[tonyrey]

No, I said we shouldn’t trade our freedom for security.

Freedom entails security!

 

[jonfawkes]

Freedom entails security!

No, there are no guarantees. Freedom is paid for with blood, always has been, always will be.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrey View Post
Doesn’t everyone prefer to live without being in fear, deprived of freedom or lacking the basic necessities of life?
…

But don’t concern yourself too much with that point, because I’ve been trying to make a larger point here. The crux of the matter is that although it is “objectively true” (as Christians are fond of saying) that people have preferences, nothing is telling us that what we want should matter. There’s nothing in nature that says, “You ought to value certain preferences.” That is a personal judgment each individual makes for themselves–these valuations are subjective.

And this applies to anyone’s preferences, God’s or otherwise. God, if he exists, might have opinions, but nothing tells us (objectively, anyway) that what God wants should count for anything. That is a personal judgment individuals make.

Considering the exceptional position God has - one of knowing everything, having power over everything, being unchangeable, and eternal, and all of this because he is necessarily extant - wouldn’t His opinion kind of have a little more weight? (Aquinas + Descartes = God necessarily exists, and His other attributes can be known because of that)

For example, life. God created us (in eternity, He is always creating us). Without life, you would not exist, and you would not be able to give an opinion on God’s views of morality. He chose to create life, and sees life as a greater good. Our common sense tells us that this is so. No one wants die because he feels naturally driven to do so. You have to screw your head pretty tight up your rectum to actually WANT to die - or bring about death for the sake of killing.

If someone kills - himself or others - it is almost always either by accident, or for some other reason (to gain wealth, to defend oneself, to eliminate evidence or a competitor, to end pain, etc). You will never kill yourself to win the race to death, nor kill anyone else for that goal. It will always be to bring yourself or others to fuller, less painful life (which, in some cases, is Heaven).

In short, ultimately, nothing we do is for the sake of death. It is always for, imagined or realised, life.

That seems like a fairly objective standard, pioneered by God Himself.

SIDENOTE:
If morality is of human origin, we may as well run wild and kill each other and die out because ultimately, when it comes down to it, the sun will expand, universe will collapse in on itself and humanity will all be dead.

The Universe is billions of years old. What’s civilization, a couple dozen thousand? Trying to set moral standards makes little to no sense on the grand scale of eternity. No one will remember the meaning we put behind our morality 6 billion years after we’ve died out. No one will care. Except God. He cares about us, even 6 billion years after we’re all dead and gone. No one else may care, but God does and that makes morals, in the long run, worth having IMHO.

Morality is concerned with the most important things.

Morality is in the business of dictating what’s important. Your statement is therefore tautological.

From the Google dictionary:

1. Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.

I see nothing in there about importance. Some people do hold morality to be important; some do not. We call them amoral, or immoral in the worst case. Just as someone does not consider science important and fails to make use of it would be unscientific.

Besides this, some moral rules are about seemingly trivial things, like gluttony, or sodomy. But despite the seeming unimportance (lack of effect on anyone) of these events, this does not make them any less wrong.

So morality being about what is important is not a tautology.

Quote:
Morally or intellectually preferable is not the same as materially preferable.

For example, truth is not always materially preferable. Sometimes telling the truth can lose you a job, or get you killed or someone you love killed - especially if the truth is about something bad you’ve done!

Martyrs are the evidence of moral preference (serving God) being chosen over material preference (life on Earth).

Between you and me, I’ve never heard of an atheist martyr.

Quote:
When you really love others you’re not even aware of yourself because you put yourself in their place and feel what they feel.

Nothing you say here is in disagreement with my position. I have not stated that people can’t empathize; I’ve stated that people prefer to act based on their empathy in such cases. Quite simply, if you care about something or someone, acting to protect it or them is, in a sense, selfish, because you care about them. The only selfless action would be one in which you protect something or someone you don’t care about, which could only be described as accidental.

So dying to allow someone else to live would be selfish? How can one be selfish when there is no self to be “ish” for?

 

[alwaysseeking]

God is omnipresent. There is only God -

Exactly.

 

[alwaysseeking]

This doesn’t give the whole picture though -

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 45:7[/BIBLEDRB]

God does create suffering - look at the story of Job. A more basic example is

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 4:11[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Lamentations 3:38[/BIBLEDRB]

Another insight here, that my daughter picked out immediately. God was advancing, in stages, a people out of the belief in multiple warrior type gods in the context of the culture at the time. So, here to say that it is God that creates the sick and the lame was an improvement, an advance, over taking these folks outside the city walls and killing them. Perhaps this last was even an improvement over killing them at birth, or killing them in the streets. Then it is a further advance to say that God made them too so treat them with decency. And we advance from there to a big jump with Jesus, “neither did this man sin nor his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.” Healing, the manifestation of the perfect man, is “the works of God”. “Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect,” could also be rendered, changing the form of the verb “to be”: You ARE therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Perfect God, perfect man. We awaken to this Truth gradually. Our mistake is mis-seeing this, trying to attach some other cause or fault, where there can be none, God being omnipresent, there is no “8th day” of creation in which God quits with the perfect creation and creates dis-ease, dis-order, un-good. If we believe that God (and His essence, His qualities) is indeed omnipresent, where then is the eternal existence of evil? There is no God, AND…anything else. There is only God…good.

 

[alwaysseeking]

So, distilled, all you are saying is there is no evil, just our perception of evil.

And, yes, distilled, one could say that, but it can be irresponsible to leave it at that. Sometimes explanation of a story does more good for more people. Sometimes when you’ve caught the full implication, it can indeed be distilled! Our perception of evil means also our projection of it, as in the fact that we not only believe what we see, but more so see what we believe! “The observer effect” in science.

 

[das17]

This is a very simple questions which I don’t think requires a lot of explanation.

I want to know how we know that God is good, as opposed to just powerful.

Why don’t you say a prayer about it. God will answer it.

 

[das17]

Guess what. I met Jesus, and have been experiencing many miracles/phenomena in my life and I want to know what is going on here. It is kind of tormenting/torturing me because I am experiencing these things and want to know why. (Mysterious/Mysteries)

I don’t know where my friends have gone, and I feel like my family has their same bodies, but different people are inside of them. An Ancient Rosary appeared to me out of thin air while praying at a statue of the blessed mother, I also have experienced blessings. Not like one you get from a priest, bishop, or pope. Ones that were felt/heard while by myself as if someone significant was in a far away place saying a blessing for me, and I felt it without hearing the words that were said.

I also have intense visions, like someone paints a picture and puts it inside my head, or plays a video clip from a movie and puts it inside my head.

I also feel someone knocking an object on my nose at night like a rock or a clicking sound is felt/heard on my nose at night. Also i hear someone flicking their fingernail on the walls, dropping their fingernails on the furniture in my room before i go to sleep at night.

I am going absolutely crazy in wondering what is going on and have been praying for someone from the holy family to come down and explain to me what is happening/come get me and bring me into gods kingdom.

I have also seen an angel flying in the sky above, with two people in metal suits: One gold, one silver. Let me know what you think.

David Andrew Stitt Jr.

610-525-7264

Ask someone from the holy family to give me a call.

Tx

 

[Benadam]

Guess what. I met Jesus, and have been experiencing many miracles/phenomena in my life and I want to know what is going on here. It is kind of tormenting/torturing me because I am experiencing these things and want to know why. (Mysterious/Mysteries)

I don’t know where my friends have gone, and I feel like my family has their same bodies, but different people are inside of them. An Ancient Rosary appeared to me out of thin air while praying at a statue of the blessed mother, I also have experienced blessings. Not like one you get from a priest, bishop, or pope. Ones that were felt/heard while by myself as if someone significant was in a far away place saying a blessing for me, and I felt it without hearing the words that were said.

I also have intense visions, like someone paints a picture and puts it inside my head, or plays a video clip from a movie and puts it inside my head.

I also feel someone knocking an object on my nose at night like a rock or a clicking sound is felt/heard on my nose at night. Also i hear someone flicking their fingernail on the walls, dropping their fingernails on the furniture in my room before i go to sleep at night.

I am going absolutely crazy in wondering what is going on and have been praying for someone from the holy family to come down and explain to me what is happening/come get me and bring me into gods kingdom.

I have also seen an angel flying in the sky above, with two people in metal suits: One gold, one silver. Let me know what you think.

David Andrew Stitt Jr.

610-525-7264

Ask someone from the holy family to give me a call.

Tx

This sounds suspicious to me. You can’t find answers here for this kind of thing. It requires in depth personal information At this point try not to dwell on these things. Try not to make too much out of it. In fact ignore them and go to your Parish administration offices and seek spiritual direction. You are in my prayers.

 

[tonyrey]

No, there are no guarantees. Freedom is paid for with blood, always has been, always will be.

Martyrs are the exception rather than the rule…

 

[greylorn]

Guess what. I met Jesus, and have been experiencing many miracles/phenomena in my life and I want to know what is going on here. It is kind of tormenting/torturing me because I am experiencing these things and want to know why. (Mysterious/Mysteries)

I don’t know where my friends have gone, and I feel like my family has their same bodies, but different people are inside of them. An Ancient Rosary appeared to me out of thin air while praying at a statue of the blessed mother, I also have experienced blessings. Not like one you get from a priest, bishop, or pope. Ones that were felt/heard while by myself as if someone significant was in a far away place saying a blessing for me, and I felt it without hearing the words that were said.

I also have intense visions, like someone paints a picture and puts it inside my head, or plays a video clip from a movie and puts it inside my head.

I also feel someone knocking an object on my nose at night like a rock or a clicking sound is felt/heard on my nose at night. Also i hear someone flicking their fingernail on the walls, dropping their fingernails on the furniture in my room before i go to sleep at night.

I am going absolutely crazy in wondering what is going on and have been praying for someone from the holy family to come down and explain to me what is happening/come get me and bring me into gods kingdom.

I have also seen an angel flying in the sky above, with two people in metal suits: One gold, one silver. Let me know what you think.

David Andrew Stitt Jr.

610-525-7264

Ask someone from the holy family to give me a call.

Tx

Your mind must be an interesting place. A shrink would probably label you a schizophrenic, but your symptoms sound more like a mix of hallucinations and OOBs (Out of Body Experiences). While interesting, these can be caused by brain tumors. If this is recent-onset stuff in particular, medical attention, not a trip to the priest, is advisable, if only to rule out things you don’t want.

I am not a qualified medical practitioner, but I have studied the workings of the brain and worked with a couple of neurological specialists on technical projects. I would give both of my friends the same recommendations I offered you— likewise myself.

In the meantime, keep a detailed journal of your experiences.

If I had a dream with a angel and the beings you describe, I would use every nickel I have, and sell some stuff, and buy gold and silver.

Good Luck!