How do we know what God wants from us?

[Godalllove]

I am always reading the Bible and there’s a part of me that sees it very confusing, at first we believe that God created the world and then in order to forgive us from the original sin he sent his son to die for us.
Why would God die to forgive us from a sin that our originals made and why did he die in order to save us from what himself brought into us when we didn’t ask to be born, couldn’t he just forgive us from himself without having to come as human and die?

 

[Trident_H]

K. This is a complex thing. And so before you just believe what I have to say about this just remember I might not be right. I mean I do my best here. But I’m not really God’s right hand man or anything. I’m just a guy. So take what I say and see if any of it makes sense. That’s all I can offer you.

So the problem is an old one. It’s the why did God Do That kind of stuff. Well let me see if I can make this a bit clearer. Let’s see if I can put it in a proper scale.

God’s able to do anything. Anything at all. Anytime. Anywhere.

Well that’s a bit of a problem. I mean that’s a bit of a problem for God. Because even though everyone likes to think that God can have anything He wants, that’s not really true. I mean it really isn’t. For example, He can’t ever have an equal. He can’t ever have a superior. He can’t ever feel vulnerable. He can’t ever have a real connection on a ground level with anyone.

Or can He?

Because He sort of did manage to do all those things right? He managed it through Jesus. Connecting with mankind in a straight-up way. In a personal way. He had superiors there. He had peers. He had people he treated as equals. So what if.

What if God’s whole plan for mankind’s fall. For mankind’s redemption. And salvation. Had a lot less to do with people and their problems than it did with God opening up a window with us. A unique option to drop in and really be with us. In a meaningful and personal way?

Because how else could He have organized it and not had it seemed contrived? How else could He show that He really cared about us and then show up in person to do the caring. All the while keeping us calm enough to meet him on an equal footing for a bit. And obviously He also had people treat Him badly.

So yeah. God’s plan is what He wanted to do. It isn’t necessarily what He wanted us to do. This was just where He needed us. Agents in a scheme. A scheme bigger than any of us. Bigger than our silly little nations. Bigger than our crazy little preoccupations. Because He had to show He cared. So He had to make a circumstance in which that caring would be welcome. And needed. And appreciated in the right way.

I don’t have time or space to spread this out totally thin like it should be. I mean this is a quick write-up. Not some deep theology. I’m just here to find the connection in all this. And this is what I’ve thought about. You pull from it what you want.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Godalllove]

Thanks for answering Trident, what I am wondering is that if God’s reason to connect to us is to come as human in order for us to know him more, wouldn’t that be for all times and places and for everyone, not only 2000 years ago in one place with some people, how is God connecting to us in these times, why some people feel him and others don’t even if they try hard, why some were lucky to see Jesus, his miracles and believe and others are trying hard to, how is this a fair system and free will when obviously miracles and connection to Jesus have their influence on our beliefs? How do we follow God correctly and who judges which is the correct way to follow him and which is not.

 

[Trident_H]

Thanks for answering Trident, what I am wondering is that if God’s reason to connect to us is to come as human in order for us to know him more, wouldn’t that be for all times and places and for everyone, not only 2000 years ago in one place with some people,

Yes and no. I mean God showed us that it was possible to do it. He showed that to us exactly. So it got us thinking that way. It gave us a way to do it from then on. And maybe for an eternal being in a constant state of ‘Now’ that’s good enough. Maybe that was good enough for Him to get across. Mission complete.

how is God connecting to us in these times, why some people feel him and others don’t even if they try hard, why some were lucky to see Jesus, his miracles and believe and others are trying hard to, how is this a fair system and free will when obviously miracles and connection to Jesus have their influence on our beliefs? How do we follow God correctly and who judges which is the correct way to follow him and which is not.

I think God’s spread Himself out in a way that works for Him. I think He’s nudging some harder than others because He wants different things from different people. He’s not after just one thing. He’s after many things. I think humanity is a mosaic even to God. I don’t think He treats us the same way because none of us are the same. And the timing isn’t always right. So maybe you might complain that He’s never written His name in the sky for you. I get that. But that doesn’t mean He never plans to. It doesn’t mean that He doesn’t have a brilliant surprise waiting just 10 years down the road.

So you’ve got a choice in this. I mean a guy can either stand around pining for that thing that hasn’t come yet. Stand around looking for it for 10 years. Wasting all that time. And then when it comes he’s not ready for it because none of that time was spent preparing for it. So when it finally comes he doesn’t even realize it. Because he’s not even relaxed enough to take it in.

Or a guy can just be patient in this. Expect nothing and you’re never disappointed. I mean not every kid gets a gift at Christmas. Not everyone even gets fed on this earth. So it’s probably no real surprise that not everyone’s going to get their own private revelation either.

Because this place is not a playground. It’s a training ground. It’s meant to make us strong enough to handle Heaven. Strong enough to live right next to God. The creator of the entire universe. So yeah. It’s going to be a tough ride. It’s never been made to be easy. We’ve been warned about that. And so we’ve got to take our lumps. And wait for something better. With hope. With peace. And with faith. Because doubters don’t get in.

And I guess I don’t blame God in a way. I mean if you had to pick your eternal neighbors would you want them to be the trusting, relaxed, happy types? Or would you want them cynical, down, and argumentative? Which guy would you even just invite to a party. Never mind an eternal sit-in.

So there’s that too.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Christy_Beth]

Christ died for all people in all times. That would be past, present and future. For in God, there is only the now. Once we die, we will be a part of that. There will no longer be clocks or calendars. No night or day. God wants us all to be a part of that. But when our first parents sinned, they caused all matter of evil to enter into God’s perfect creation. We sin because that’s what has started to become “natural” to us. Jesus died on the cross to give us an option.

It is a powerful truth. This gives us the option to either sin or not. It’s a hard choice at times. I think it’s mostly due to the fact that we have a hard time knowing what God does want from us. Or for us. He wants to give of Himself fully. But we have a tendency to not see all of that. We are too short sighted. That’s why we need the Church and all it offers. It helps steer us into calmer, and cleaner, waters. So, don’t give up on God or His Church.

 

[eazyduzit]

I am always reading the Bible and there’s a part of me that sees it very confusing, at first we believe that God created the world and then in order to forgive us from the original sin he sent his son to die for us.
Why would God die to forgive us from a sin that our originals made and why did he die in order to save us from what himself brought into us when we didn’t ask to be born, couldn’t he just forgive us from himself without having to come as human and die?

What’s adding to your confusion is a misunderstanding of so called “original sin”. It is not that God needs to fogive a sin that is transferred to us. It is rather about something that was lost and and needs to be restored,namely righteousness. (I suggest reading Rm.ch.5)
What Adam lost was the ability to NOT sin. Thus we are born sinners and we need forgiveness for our own sins, not Adam’s. There is much more to this but there you have the basics.

Hope that helps

 

[lux]

Even though it was Adam’s personal sin, we inherited our parents’ nature through that disobedience, called concupiscence. Jesus salvific sacrifice as the new Adam redeems us, since God’s infinite justice will only be satisfied by an offering of infinite value such as our Lord provides and which we, as finite creatures, can never provide of ourselves alone.

 

[fred_conty]

I am always reading the Bible and there’s a part of me that sees it very confusing, at first we believe that God created the world and then in order to forgive us from the original sin he sent his son to die for us.
Why would God die to forgive us from a sin that our originals made and why did he die in order to save us from what himself brought into us when we didn’t ask to be born, couldn’t he just forgive us from himself without having to come as human and die?

After looking at your OP it seems to be … you want to know why God had to die for us.

Because it is the nature of love to sacrifice oneself for the beloved.
God is perfect in every way. He is perfect love. Which means he would sacrifice the most for us.

So out of love he sent his only Son into the world to become one with us. Then Jesus became the sacrifice of love on the cross to convince us of that love. Would we have been convinced in any other way? How much love would have been demonstrated in a simple forgiveness? God loved us most completely by sending his Son because Jesus then was the sacrifice of love which noone could deny. He became the Lamb of God whose blood washed away our infirmities.

Love responds to love. Why does a son love his mother so much? We too respond to Jesus because we know how much he went thru in his passion, and what he gave up by becoming man…for our sakes.

If we stop and think of all those we love, they have priorities in our love. And the priority is … sacrifice. How much will I do for that person…how much am I willing to sacrifice? And that will speak for itself just how much we love them.

If we ponder on this for just a few moments, we can’t help conclude just how much Jesus loved us. And the knowledge of his love for us, starts our fire of love for him. And that is the purpose of the death of Jesus…to draw all men to his loving heart.

By his death we know that he wants and charishes our love the most.

 

[Godalllove]

Thanks everyone for your answers but I’m still without answers to the original question, God having a plan for us doesn’t answer it well or the death of Jesus as a good reason to believe that this is a part of God’s goodness and love when nothing changed in nature and there is still suffering and many are not experiencing God’s love, I’m unable to see how God is good when we were brought into a world without having a choice about that and having to face eternal judgment for our failures in this life, it would be better then to not have children so they don’t risk to suffer or go to Hell, it would be a risk and an immoral bet on the souls of others, what is the initial message of God? That God loves us when all things clearly show otherwise, what is it?

 

[JM3]

Why would God die to forgive us from a sin that our originals made and why did he die in order to save us from what himself brought into us when we didn’t ask to be born, couldn’t he just forgive us from himself without having to come as human and die?

First of all, your parents asked that you be born. While God is the source of your creation, your parents are the cause of your creation. Ask your parents why they didn’t ask you if you wanted to be born. As to why God had to die, Pope Benedict XVI said, “In the incarnation, the Son of God became one with human beings – with Adam. But only at this moment, when he accomplishes the supreme act of love by descending into the night of death, does he bring the journey of the incarnation to its completion. By his death he now clasps the hand of Adam, of every man and woman who awaits him, and brings them to the light.”
There is also the thought that only God could stand up to the justice of God that must be satisfied. Man could not. Therefore, Jesus, being both God and Man, satisfies the justice of God for us.

 

[JM3]

what is the initial message of God?

ignatius.com/Products/WG-P/the-will-of-god.aspx

 

[Robert_Sock]

People often do not listen to the spirit speaking to us, telling us what we should be doing and thinking. It’s the spirit that speaks to us, telling us what God wants. Listen carefully, as is being advocated in the following:

"She [the Torah] may be compared to a beautiful and stately maiden, who is secluded in an isolated chamber of a palace, and has a lover of whose existence she alone knows. For love of her he passes by her gate unceasingly, and turns his eyes in all directions to discover her. She is aware that he is forever hovering about the palace, and what does she do? She thrusts open a small door in her secret chamber, for a moment reveals her face to her lover, then quickly withdraws it. He alone, none else, notices it; but he is aware it is from love of him that she has revealed herself to him for that moment, and his heart and his soul and everything within him are drawn to her.
"So it is with the Torah, which discloses her innermost secrets only to them who love her. She knows that whosoever is wise in heart hovers near the gate of her dwelling place day after day. What does she do? From her palace, she shows her face to him, and gives him a signal of love, and forthwith retreats back to her hiding place. Only he alone catches her message, and he is drawn to her with his whole heart and soul, and with all of his being. In this manner, the Torah, for a moment, discloses herself in love to her lovers, so as to rouse them to renewed love… She commences to speak with him, at first from behind the veil which she has hung before her words, so that they may suit his manner of understanding, in order that he may progress gradually… Then she speaks to him behind a filmy veil of finer mesh, she speaks to him in riddles and allegories… When, finally, he is on near terms with her, she stands disclosed face to face with him, and holds converse with him concerning all of her secret mysteries, and all the secret ways which have been hidden in her heart from immemorial time…
“[But] woe to [those] who look upon the Torah as simply tales pertaining to things of the world, seeing thus only the outer garment. But [those] whose gaze penetrates to the very Torah, happy are they. Just as wine must be in a jar to keep, so the Torah must be contained in an outer garment. That garment is made up of the tales and stories; but we, we are bound to penetrate beyond.”
(Scholem, Gershom, Ed. (1995). Zohar: The Book of Splendor. Schocken Books: New York.)