How do we REALLY Learn What We as Individuals Think We Know?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RGCheek
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sure, but if they didn’t take the elders’ word for it on anything at all there would be no progression.
I think they used the experience of the elders for much the same function as we today use ‘the word on the street’ or Wikipedia or authoritative assertions from fields that we have no personal expertise in; we use them as starting points for our own investigations if they are so important to us.

But if we fall back on ‘That is not the direction that we should go because Sam’s grandfather said that there is no other way from here to there,’ then the inherited knowledge is a constraint and ceases to be an aid to our progression.

When people today dismiss the implications of the double slit experiment because ‘the universe just doesn’t work that way’ they are falling back on what they learned in high school from teachers who were largely deterministic materialists. And that reliance holds them back from understanding how the mind can affect the universe itself.

youtube.com/watch?v=rWTo2Gk5iU0
 
It seems to me that 99.99999% of the people I know, even the most intelligent of them, do not learn things via reason and observed fact. They truly ‘learn’ by simple rote memorization of things they think true based on reference groups they have established in their minds as reliable sources of authority.

They may have a few specific areas of knowledge that they have explored personally, but most people, by far, do not lift the load themselves but merely hop a ride on the backs of those they see passing them toward a place they think they want to go.

Can any of us really say that we make rational and responsible decisions in this way?
People are trapped, and they cannot escape… especially those watching television. Plato’s Allegory of the Cave has become a reality.
 
People are trapped, and they cannot escape… especially those watching television. Plato’s Allegory of the Cave has become a reality.
‘Mass Media’ = ‘Plato’s Cave’?

Wow, I think you’ve got something there.

No, seriously.

👍
 
When people today dismiss the implications of the double slit experiment because ‘the universe just doesn’t work that way’ they are falling back on what they learned in high school from teachers who were largely deterministic materialists. And that reliance holds them back from understanding how the mind can affect the universe itself.

youtube.com/watch?v=rWTo2Gk5iU0
The URL of the video’s uploader returns “suspended - contact support”, and it’s not clear whether it was published with the copyright holder’s permission.

The movie from which is was taken is described as pseudoscience:* "Amongst the assertions in the film that have been challenged are that water molecules can be influenced by thought (as popularized by Masaru Emoto), that meditation can reduce violent crime rates, and that quantum physics implies that “consciousness is the ground of all being. …] the movie gradually moves to quantum ‘insights’ that lead a woman to toss away her antidepressant medication, to the quantum channeling of Ramtha, the 35,000-year-old Lemurian warrior, and on to even greater nonsense.” …] “Most laypeople cannot tell where the quantum physics ends and the quantum nonsense begins, and many are susceptible to being misguided”. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know!%3F*
 
The URL of the video’s uploader returns “suspended - contact support”, and it’s not clear whether it was published with the copyright holder’s permission.

The movie from which is was taken is described as pseudoscience:* "Amongst the assertions in the film that have been challenged are that water molecules can be influenced by thought (as popularized by Masaru Emoto), that meditation can reduce violent crime rates, and that quantum physics implies that “consciousness is the ground of all being. …] the movie gradually moves to quantum ‘insights’ that lead a woman to toss away her antidepressant medication, to the quantum channeling of Ramtha, the 35,000-year-old Lemurian warrior, and on to even greater nonsense.” …] “Most laypeople cannot tell where the quantum physics ends and the quantum nonsense begins, and many are susceptible to being misguided”. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know!%3F*
I get to the video and the uploader just fine. I see no link to ‘What the Do We Know’. I see links to several other sites and videos instead. youtube.com/channel/UCktkF1wKQMZwrcbwpu-SPpw

So whatever you think you are referring to, it is not apparently connected to what I referred to. The video I posted is simply an explanation of what happened in the double slit experiment and quantum entanglement, which are accurate.

This discussion has the same allegation that you make, but the consensus is the video short on QE and the DSE are accurate. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/783/is-dr-quantums-double-slit-experiment-video-scientifically-accurate

IF you know some contrary FACTS then please lets discuss them instead of wasting time with ad hominem attempts to smear the creator of the video.
 
I do not see anything profound or “substantial” in that. Hume produced a view of induction and causation that is simply irrelevant, IMO, because statistically modern science has refuted his doubts like a hurricane of reason. We know that there are limits to our knowledge and that what we once thought of as regularity in the way nature works varies at different locales and different scales of dimension. But so what? We accommodate such observations and look for how they tie together and don’t simply assume that there is no rational system that explains them all with the same set of rules.

Hume is the smart aleck in the back of the classroom whose only contribution to daily use of reason and real life is that he got the truly smart to dig deeper to answer his questions.

Consider that contribution if you want but a three year old could ‘contribute’ in that manner just as well.

Hume his self refutes the existence of the self. Hume uses reason to deny the validity of reason and reduces morality to mere sentiment. He declares that religion is little more than dread of the unknown and that monotheism was the product of or came from polytheism. It is far more accurate to say that monotheism emerged only as people began to see the fatal flaws of polytheism and rejected it for monotheism which is rational and consistent with what we have observed in the real world.

When I read Hume back in high school I was drawn in by the mans prose and his use of reason until I came to realize he was using the snake to swallow itself and undermining everything his own arguments rested on. I discussed him with other Evangelical friends and found that the few of them who considered him worth reading at all had come to similar realizations. Since then I have not wasted any more time on the huckster.

Hume was an element of obfuscation, irrationality and contempt toward God based on the inability to observe Him. How many souls have been lost to poverty, cruelty and damnation due to this imp of a man is simply incalculable.

In my dilettante opinion Hume was a detestable side track, a geek side show whose sole contribution to reason and knowledge was to remind us of the horrors of getting everything wrong.

Hume’s philosophy is a version of phenomonalism where the primary ontological entities were the subjective content of one’s mind (not external reality), which would be “impressions” and “ideas” as these were introduced in his first monograph A Treatise of Human Nature. Since Hume does not directly address the state of the external reality, but rather how one’s mind can form ideas about the structure and organization of external, objective reality based on the initial sensory impression (which need not connected to the external world) presented in the mind, his work does not present an obvious inconsistencies. One can claim that Hume’s “impressions” and “ideas” are folk psychology concepts that would not be included in a modern scientific understanding of the human brain and behavior, but that does not mean his epistemology is contradictory.​

Do not be so dismissive of Hume’s legacy! But I am more interested in your claim that Hume has caused many souls to be lost to “poverty, cruelty and damnation”. Hume was indeed impish and knew how to troll common religious orthodoxy, but he did it so panache and adroitness that his works are philosophical masterpieces. Hume’s presence is not a mere nuisance , but rather someone who can formulate profound counterarguments against traditional philosophy.

Ironically, the number of souls that have be lost to apostasy and perdition due to Hume’s published work is “incalculable” but I doubt it would be immense. In a more facetious way, I can claim that Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Colin Kaepernick have caused the damnation of many souls, too, because they are talented enough to create an engrossing and magnificent spectacle that it would prevent some people from attending Mass (and thus committing a mortal sin).

Also, consider other atheist and agnostics such as Richard Dawkins and Charles Darwin. Concerning the later, in order for Darwin to directly affect one’s faith, one could have to read his original work and theory and perceive that work to be a blow that injuries one faith. Dawkins said that “Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist”, but many atheists/agnostics have not read Darwin’s original work and have been exposed to the theory of evolution in its modern formulations through educational instruction, popular science, textbooks, and journal articles. Thus, it is Darwin’s indirect influence as the pioneer for advocating a naturalistic theory of biological origins that has resulted in a negative impact on one’s faith. Rather, it is not Charles Darwin contribution themselves, but rather the multidisciplinary convergence, including fields such as geology, paleontology, molecular biology, and genetics, supporting a Darwinian account of natural history (common ancestry and evolutionary divergence and modification) and amending the original theory, that has provided a compelling account of biology without recourse to natural theology concepts such as teleology. Dawkins may be more directly implicated for the loss of faith since he popularized a biological account that emphasizes contingency and directionless, in addition to his bellicose anti-religious activism.
 
I do not see how Hume could have such a profound effect on someone’s faith, and I converted in spite of it. However, more mundane solutions such as better catechesis can act as a prophylactic against an detrimental effect that Hume’s work inflict on one’s faith. Also, many people are still getting tempted and discouraged, and the effects of those temptations and sentiments of discouragement often has a more devastating and disconcerting effect on one’s faith than the abstract nature of Hume’s work.

As for myself, Hume does not even present a ponderous stumbling block at all. But since I am a Latias, perhaps Hume’s work is like an Earthquake and doesn’t affect me (and he doesn’t have something like Mold Breaker). While I may be immune to Hume’s moves, I am still a glass cannon and fragile as I cannot take many hits, even neutral ones. There was a recent thread posted here about a more traditionalist Confirmation where the Bishop would slap the confirmed to remind them that they have to carry the burden of Christ’s cross. I often wonder if I am a pathetic Catholic, unable to carry any significant burden. One of my main difficulties is that I often doubt whether my sincerity and contrition would suffice to please God, and I often oscillate between apathy and shame.
 
I get to the video and the uploader just fine. I see no link to ‘What the Do We Know’. I see links to several other sites and videos instead. youtube.com/channel/UCktkF1wKQMZwrcbwpu-SPpw

So whatever you think you are referring to, it is not apparently connected to what I referred to. The video I posted is simply an explanation of what happened in the double slit experiment and quantum entanglement, which are accurate.

This discussion has the same allegation that you make, but the consensus is the video short on QE and the DSE are accurate. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/783/is-dr-quantums-double-slit-experiment-video-scientifically-accurate

IF you know some contrary FACTS then please lets discuss them instead of wasting time with ad hominem attempts to smear the creator of the video.
Ad hominem applies to philosophical arguments, not quoting movie critics.

The uploaders’ website, wisdomofsource.com, is today showing a completely blank page rather than “suspended”.

In your OP you say “most people, by far, do not lift the load themselves but merely hop a ride on the backs of those they see passing them toward a place they think they want to go”. If you want to get off the back of pseudoscience and try the real deal instead, you could start by learning about the double slit experiment from a scientist rather than a cartoonist. Try chapter 1 of volume 3 in the classic text feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/

For Flatland, you can read the original, written in 1884, at geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/
 
Ad hominem applies to philosophical arguments, not quoting movie critics.
Nonsense. Irrational arguments exist wherever they are used in any subject, lol.
In your OP you say “most people, by far, do not lift the load themselves but merely hop a ride on the backs of those they see passing them toward a place they think they want to go”. If you want to get off the back of pseudoscience and try the real deal instead, you could start by learning about the double slit experiment from a scientist rather than a cartoonist. Try chapter 1 of volume 3 in the classic text feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/
And if you have a point to make you could actually make it instead of tossing out a link to some generic overview of physics.

What that was given in the ‘cartoon’ was inaccurate specifically?
For Flatland, you can read the original, written in 1884, at geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/
Read that a long time ago.

Do you actually have a point?
 
Hume’s philosophy is a version of phenomonalism where the primary ontological entities were the subjective content of one’s mind (not external reality), which would be “impressions” and “ideas” as these were introduced in his first monograph A Treatise of Human Nature. Since Hume does not directly address the state of the external reality, but rather how one’s mind can form ideas about the structure and organization of external, objective reality based on the initial sensory impression (which need not connected to the external world) presented in the mind, his work does not present an obvious inconsistencies. One can claim that Hume’s “impressions” and “ideas” are folk psychology concepts that would not be included in a modern scientific understanding of the human brain and behavior, but that does not mean his epistemology is contradictory.
I did not say that Hume’s arguments are contradictory due to contradictions with science, but due to their own internal inconsistencies, like his assertions that the self does not exist.

Hume has all the seamlessness of the local drunk high on pot engaging in navel gazing auguries.
Do not be so dismissive of Hume’s legacy!
Why? It seems merited.
But I am more interested in your claim that Hume has caused many souls to be lost to “poverty, cruelty and damnation”. Hume was indeed impish and knew how to troll common religious orthodoxy, but he did it so panache and adroitness that his works are philosophical masterpieces.
Yeah, right, like a Picasso is a masterpiece. I suppose you have to have a certain kind of hangover to appreciate Picasso and Hume.
Hume’s presence is not a mere nuisance , but rather someone who can formulate profound counterarguments against traditional philosophy.
Then why didn’t he publish them?

As to your questions about why I think he has lead people to Hell, I can only sit here and wonder how you fail to connect the dots between denying the existence of God, denying the validity of reason, and denying the very existence of the Self on one hand and on the other the general nihilism that permeates so much of the modern depressive mindset and the rise of anti-Christian thought.
 
People are trapped, and they cannot escape… especially those watching television. Plato’s Allegory of the Cave has become a reality.
No biggie there.

It’s been shown that your mind is more active asleep than watching TV:)

ICXC NIKA
 
No biggie there.

It’s been shown that your mind is more active asleep than watching TV:)

ICXC NIKA
Wouldn’t that depend on what stage of sleep one was referring to?

Watching TV also requires more brain activity than most periods of sleep require, doesn’t it? REM requires the most, obviously, but isn’t N3 more passive?
 
Wouldn’t that depend on what stage of sleep one was referring to?

Watching TV also requires more brain activity than most periods of sleep require, doesn’t it? REM requires the most, obviously, but isn’t N3 more passive?
Good point.

I picked that up as a throwaway science blurb. Presumably an average was meant.

I’ll need to research about N3.

ICXC NIKA
 
Good point.

I picked that up as a throwaway science blurb. Presumably an average was meant.

I’ll need to research about N3.

ICXC NIKA
OK.

I get the feeling I just suffered an Aspergers’ moment.

Sorry if I misinterpreted the nature of your post.
 
I did not say that Hume’s arguments are contradictory due to contradictions with science, but due to their own internal inconsistencies, like his assertions that the self does not exist.
Hume did not say that the self did not exist; instead, he conflated it with one’s impressions and ideas. After all, what is “the self” without impressions and ideas? It would seem that it would just be an oblivion. In other words, the mind does not have impressions and ideas, but that it those ideas and impressions and their interconnection.
Then why didn’t he publish them?
As to your questions about why I think he has lead people to Hell, I can only sit here and wonder how you fail to connect the dots between denying the existence of God, denying the validity of reason, and denying the very existence of the Self on one hand and on the other the general nihilism that permeates so much of the modern depressive mindset and the rise of anti-Christian thought.

The Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion is a masterpiece. Hume does counter most arguments given to support teleological design and traditional theism (as represented by the character of Demea). Hume is more like a pitcher who has pitched the duration of the game and not allowed a run while striking out 12, rather than some “local drunk high on pot engaging in navel gazing auguries”.​

No, you did not understand my response, since it concerns the number of the people who were damned by him.

I will contend that Hume’s skepticism for religion is rather mild as he only had an aversion towards “popular superstition” and obfuscatory metaphysical theories and was not a vociferous anti-atheist. Traditional orthodoxy was often the object of his scorn and criticism, and he flippantly treated the most sacrosanct of dogmas, but he did have some respect for natural theology (which ostensibly is not influenced by religious dogma and distant enough from “popular superstition”).

So tell me how has someone like Hume has caused the damnation of more souls than good NFL quarterbacks? You are the one making a qualitative claim about the number of souls Hume has lead to damnation, but that is directly related to his influence on the general populace and someone such as Russell Wilson has more immediate and direct influence. Couldn’t you make the connect that people like him draw people away from attending religious services? Yes, one can enjoy an NFL broadcast and attend a religious service, but all else being equal, one can the NFL reduces the chance of attending a service. Maybe Tim Tebow encouraged more people to be religious with his overt and gaudy displays of his faith, or his faith could be so off putting.
Ironically, the number of souls that have be lost to apostasy and perdition due to Hume’s published work is “incalculable” but I doubt it would be immense. In a more facetious way, I can claim that Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Colin Kaepernick have caused the damnation of many souls, too, because they are talented enough to create an engrossing and magnificent spectacle that it would prevent some people from attending Mass (and thus committing a mortal sin).
I mentioned Charles Darwin, since he too can be considered an influence that has lead to the damnation of souls, and most likely, his indirectly influence had a stronger influence on religious disbelief than Hume. A Darwinian account of biology allows one to dispose of divine providence by providing a theoretical framework where the features of all terrestrial life, including humans, is the contingent consequence of the processes of natural history. It may not be tantamount to atheism, but it does give a stronger impression of the absence of divine providence in the realm of biology than any intellectual argument against the existence of God. Perhaps, Ludwig Boltzmann can be such an influence too, although in the molecular realm, by providing a similar but more quantitatively rigorous framework, showing that macroscopic processes can be understood as the consequence of stochastic molecular dynamics.

Moreover, secular philosophy does not uniquely promote “depression” (your words). About a year ago, I attended several sessions (for a religious course) with a friend hosted by a conservative priest (that description is not adequate but I have to be vague in order to maintain our anonymity) and his presentation on mortal sin made me feel dejected and apathetic (although I did not lose my equanimity, but I lost most of my spiritual zeal) along with other things. It gave me the impression that God is petty, and that my sincerity would not suffice, so instead of being scrupulous, I just became apathetic. Furthermore, I found him inflexible. I consciously thought about walking away from Church in order to be true to myself and maintain some personal contentment. Another friend told me that he a polarizing person as the people who disagreed with him would likely avoid him and the parish, but my friend respected him for his authentic zeal and devotion even though my friend did not usually agree with his approach. There is a selection bias for those attending, since they presumably like him. I suppose that some people admire him because he is the type of person who has the confidence that he is conveying “the truth” by espousing unpalatable Church teachings and that the consequences of doing so will ultimately be salutary since it would illuminate “the truth” to others and result in conversion and admonishment.
 
Hume did not say that the self did not exist; instead, he conflated it with one’s impressions and ideas. After all, what is “the self” without impressions and ideas? It would seem that it would just be an oblivion. In other words, the mind does not have impressions and ideas, *but that it those ideas and impressions *and their interconnection.
Say what?

At any rate, the minds unity and control over perceptions and memories is demonstrated by simple mediation and the shift of ones mental focus from one sensation to another, from one memory to another, and between emotions and streams of thought.

To assert that the self does not truly exist but is a bundle of perceptions and emotions is to not be able to see the forest for the trees as well as self-contradictory.
The Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion is a masterpiece. Hume does counter most arguments given to support teleological design and traditional theism (as represented by the character of Demea). Hume is more like a pitcher who has pitched the duration of the game and not allowed a run while striking out 12, rather than some “local drunk high on pot engaging in navel gazing auguries”.
Yes and Jackson Pollock made many masterpieces according to some, but all I see is dripped paint. Is that my lacking of creativity or the fact that that is all his stuff is; dripped paint?

Hume is similarly subjective in value. I suppose most nihilists and anarchists love him, but I see no use in understanding the world around me coming from a man whose writings saw the tree limbs off upon which the man is perched himself.
No, you did not understand my response, since it concerns the number of the people who were damned by him.
It is incalculable. How many people did Adam curse?
I will contend that Hume’s skepticism for religion is rather mild as he only had an aversion towards “popular superstition” and obfuscatory metaphysical theories and was not a vociferous anti-atheist. Traditional orthodoxy was often the object of his scorn and criticism, and he flippantly treated the most sacrosanct of dogmas, but he did have some respect for natural theology (which ostensibly is not influenced by religious dogma and distant enough from “popular superstition”).
A typical modernist who dismisses the wisdom of millennia because of hubris and a solidly closed mind.

I have no use for such and it simply amazes me when Catholics claim his works so grandiose.
 
Nonsense. Irrational arguments exist wherever they are used in any subject, lol.

And if you have a point to make you could actually make it instead of tossing out a link to some generic overview of physics.

What that was given in the ‘cartoon’ was inaccurate specifically?

Read that a long time ago.

Do you actually have a point?
My point is that you linked a childishly superficial cartoon as if it was an important piece of philosophy. Then when I quoted some criticisms of the superficial cartoon, you wanted me to make a frame by frame critique as if it was an important piece of philosophy rather than a superficial cartoon.

Then when I linked a standard undergraduate lecture on the subject with full descriptions and equations, in contrast to the superficial cartoon, you dismiss it out of hand.

My point is that learning takes effort. Looking at your comments on Picasso and Hume, that means a LOT more effort than dismissing out of hand anyone who doesn’t provide the instant gratification of YouTube.

My point is 1 Cor 13:11.
 
My point is that you linked a childishly superficial cartoon as if it was an important piece of philosophy. Then when I quoted some criticisms of the superficial cartoon, you wanted me to make a frame by frame critique as if it was an important piece of philosophy rather than a superficial cartoon.

Then when I linked a standard undergraduate lecture on the subject with full descriptions and equations, in contrast to the superficial cartoon, you dismiss it out of hand.

My point is that learning takes effort. Looking at your comments on Picasso and Hume, that means a LOT more effort than dismissing out of hand anyone who doesn’t provide the instant gratification of YouTube.

My point is 1 Cor 13:11.
I used the animated lecture for those who are not so keen on reading dense academic jargon. If you have an objection to the data in that lecture you should state what it is clearly instead of linking to some generic text without specifying what it is you are going on about.

That is what a ‘discussion’ is. I make my points, you make yours, and I try to learn from responding to your points. I really don’t care if you choose to try to learn anything; I am quite sure you have all the relevant facts anyway, right?

My comments on Hume and Picasso are valid in that I am far from the only person to be dismissive of them and that so many of our educated elites give them cred simply demonstrates how degenerate and useless our elites have become.

Instead of engaging in a back and forth, you dismiss the whole list of posts I have made as though I presented nothing factual, which is simply incredible as even the texts you and others linked to admit that the mere observation of matter has an impact on how it behaves at the QM level which has always been my main point about it.

So, were you really trying to honestly engage in a discussion , or were you merely trying to kick up dust to obscure and derail it instead? Sure looks like its the latter case to me, Bro.
 
Yes and Jackson Pollock made many masterpieces according to some, but all I see is dripped paint. Is that my lacking of creativity or the fact that that is all his stuff is; dripped paint?

Hume is similarly subjective in value. I suppose most nihilists and anarchists love him, but I see no use in understanding the world around me coming from a man whose writings saw the tree limbs off upon which the man is perched himself.
I said this earlier:
The Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion is a masterpiece. Hume does counter most arguments given to support teleological design and traditional theism (as represented by the character of Demea). Hume is more like a pitcher who has pitched the duration of the game and not allowed a run while striking out 12, rather than some “local drunk high on pot engaging in navel gazing auguries”.
I suppose this video (highlights of the 2014 AL Cy Young winner) reflects my sentiments on Hume. The background music is Class of '99’s cover of Pink Floyd’s “Another Brick in the Wall Part 2”, which is quite approps for your remarks associating him with anarchists and nihilists.

I actually took your remark as a complement. I do not consider myself a political anarchist or nihilist, but I have general dislike of traditional values, authority, and social conformity and I certainly appreciate that his epistemological principles can be used to undermine the perceived legitimacy of traditional values and institutions. Hume exemplifies the passion and unbridled expression of Red and the deliberation and inquiry of Blue, with a strong aversion for the rigidity of White. But, hey, different strokes for different blokes (or folks).

Hume’s main contribution is that he rigorously examinations the implications of radical empiricism, and he does come to the realization that it cannot be used to justify basis concepts such as causation, induction, and credibility one’s experience since it cannot completely banish philosophical doubt. Hume wasn’t particularly an advocate for a particular philosophical framework, but he did realize the empiricism did extirpate the foundation for most beliefs and that the solution is for one to return to the realm of human experience, not rigorous philosophy. Paradoxically, Hume’s philosophy affirms the importance of human experience, not abstract philosophical cogitation.
It is incalculable. How many people did Adam curse?
A typical modernist who dismisses the wisdom of millennia because of hubris and a solidly closed mind.
I have no use for such and it simply amazes me when Catholics claim his works so grandiose.
We have opposite views on Hume. You believe that he has an indubitably immense negative impact on the salvation of one’s soul yet his philosophical work can be easily dismissed. Instead, I do not think his work can have much effect on one’s individual salvation, but he does provide many profound epistemological insights. Perhaps, one reason for this greatly divergent view of the impact of Hume’s philosophy is that I regard religiosity as a predominantly social and emotional phenomenon, while you (presumably) stress the intellectual foundations of theism and the apparent absurdity of the religious skepticism. I see religious apologetics just as ornate regalia that clothes the underlying cultural and psychological influences for one’s faith. (Note, I am not arguing religion is solely a natural phenomenon!) I can say that I did have vivid spiritual experiences that convinced me of the reality of heaven and God’s love. This is indeed subjective. Due to the influence of the Spirit and invaluable spiritual gifts, I am unaffected by Hume’s arguments (or arguments from other atheists and agnostics), but my faith is still vulnerable to other things.
 
Latias, thank you for this response. I was honestly thinking you were never going to get real, by my perspective, but now you have been what seems to me to be more authentic in that you are placing Humes thought within the context of your own beliefs and perspective on the world and religion and I appreciate that, though I am still about90% in disagreement with what you have said here.

Ah, the tingly feelings that hope and change can give us!
I actually took your remark as a complement. I do not consider myself a political anarchist or nihilist, but I have general dislike of traditional values, authority, and social conformity and I certainly appreciate that his epistemological principles can be used to undermine the perceived legitimacy of traditional values and institutions.
These institutions, values and traditions are a repository of a groups EXPERIENCE in the real world, and often the result of simple trial and error. They get all dressed up in religious terms today in the same way that they used to make up myths to support them because most people don’t care to sacrifice what they think they know for the sake of ‘I tried it that way and it don’t work.’ No, such simplicities do not persuade the human heart and so myth and religion are tapped into to convince the more stupid among us to not steal, lie, murder and so forth, things that are considered by the elites the sole monopoly of government and themselves.

I appreciate this collected body of experience and wisdom and merely wish to apply it to the government and the elites as well, the rule of law.

But independent of how fascists and oligarch may manipulate religion the Catholic faith is tried and true, and I have lost many friends and been marginalized by my Protestant family because I chose to convert to Catholicism, now more of them are Catholic than Protestant; a great victory in my own eyes and heart though I had little to do with it.
Hume’s main contribution is that he rigorously examinations the implications of radical empiricism, and he does come to the realization that it cannot be used to justify basis concepts such as causation, induction, and credibility one’s experience since it cannot completely banish philosophical doubt.
One does not need Hume to arrive at the realization that the root assumptions of empiricism are products of philosophical and theological axioms. Were it not for the Scholastic movement, I don’t think that modern science would have developed as quickly as it did in Europe and it did mostly due to the belief that the universe was made orderly reflecting the mind of God and the schism between Catholicism and Protestantism which spurred literacy and scientific research to support military research in the nearly incessant wars in Europe.

When one can buy fertilizer at the garden shop one need not stoop to the septic tank.
Hume wasn’t particularly an advocate for a particular philosophical framework, but he did realize the empiricism did extirpate the foundation for most beliefs and that the solution is for one to return to the realm of human experience, not rigorous philosophy. Paradoxically, Hume’s philosophy affirms the importance of human experience, not abstract philosophical cogitation.
Yes, human experience that he also trims and binds with the maxim that only natural phenomena are valid experience. I used to think that till I had my own ‘out of bounds’ experiences and so I now know Hume is full of fertilizer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top