How do we sin mortally against the Holy Spirit?

[Bruised_Reed]

What You do not take the Catechism for right teaching or the Bible? These are the quotes I gave you… Give your quotes if you are not convince with mine, not enough for me just to oppose.

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

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The quotes I would list would be the same as other posters have given and similar to yours so I’m not going to add any.

Perhaps I lack the wisdom to understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps there is no wisdom there to understand, but either way I’m really tired of people on this forum questioning my Catholicism, my belief in the Scriptures, and Catechism because I don’t buy into their own personal beliefs.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

The quotes I would list would be the same as other posters have given and similar to yours so I’m not going to add any.

Perhaps I lack the wisdom to understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps there is no wisdom there to understand, but either way I’m really tired of people on this forum questioning my Catholicism, my belief in the Scriptures, and Catechism because I don’t buy into their own personal beliefs.

OK Bruised, I am going to tell you what is all this about.

We are living in the end-times and we better be prepare to receive the two witnesses when they come bringing plagues and stoping the rain.:bigyikes: Probably all this is about that. To be careful not to fall into eternal sin by not believing in the ones the Lord is sending to fulfill the prophecie our Lord gave us.

Hope this helps, and do not take anything personally. Here I always try to engage people in the argument so that we all may learn more. This is what happen with the interactions in the threads. So many thanks for your patience,

In the love of God,
Gloria

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[Nita]

Dear Nita, in Jn 14:26 we read also: “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.”

Jesus is speaking to the apostles here and what will be done for them. There is nothing to indicate His words apply in a general way.

Whereas, in the passage I cited, Jesus’ prophecy applied to the “world”.
(John 16:8 And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; )
It’s important to carefully examine Scripture passages; pay attention to the details.

But what do we need to do to receive him in our hearts?:

]In the sacraments: initially in Baptism, and subsequently in the other sacraments.
In day to day living: we obey His revealed will (Church/Scripture);
we do not commit serious sin (cf. 1 Thess 5:19);
we experience His presence increasingly by establishing a loving relationship – speaking to Him and seeking His help. (In other words, prayer to the Holy Spirit.)

Those would be some standard ways to receive Him into our hearts.

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[Richard_White]

Yes, Richard, but these sins that you are mentioning are sins against God, not the Holy Spirit.

You’re kidding, right? The Holy Spirit IS God: the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity!

 

[Layp3rs0n]

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/UNFORGIV.htm

Jimmy Akin’s article on this.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

But what do we need to do to receive him in our hearts?:

“‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you for ever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you.” Jn 14:15-17.

Dear Nita, the question I asked, I gave the answer by the Lord himself. It was a bit bias that you did not put my answer and then you go and answered it yourself.
I do not say that you are wrong, no, I do not say that, but what I say is that my answer comprises all what you are saying. Because if what the Lord is saying to us is missing, you can have all the Sacraments but **you will not receive the grace **that suppose to come through them.

Also you said:

Jesus is speaking to the apostles here and what will be done for them. There is nothing to indicate His words apply in a general way.

But in what I just quote you above says that God will send another advocate that will stay with “you” for ever. So you really think it refers only to the Apostles??? And also what, do you think that in Jn 6:8 and Jn 14:15-16 is talking about to different advocates, two differents spirits of truth

Then you quote your passage and proceed to insult me for not paying attention to Scripture not even examine it carefully.

John 16:8 And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; )
It’s important to carefully examine Scripture passages; pay attention to the details.

But this is again your bias an partially quoting and then insulting. In john 16:12-13, just after what you quote says this.

"12 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. "

Since in the Book of Revelation reveals the Spirit of Prophesy which has declered to us the things to come, are you claiming that because you have the Spirit of Truth you understand all what is written there, or fall all purposes the Church understands all there? Are you claiming that?

We must all work together for the coming of His Kingdom,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

You’re kidding, right? The Holy Spirit IS God: the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity!

Well Richard, I know that all sins an blasphemies will be forgiven but the one against the Holy Spirit no.

Even though the Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity, they all have different functions even though The Three are only One. Jesus also is part of the Trinity , the Son, and He said that who ever blaspheme against the Son of Man (Jesus) that even will be forginven. But the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the eternal sin which will never will be forgiven.

“Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.” Mt 12:31

So let me repeat to you:

So unbelief is a mortal sin which leads us to eternal condemnation: when the Holy Spirit is working through someone and we do not want to believe.

Sins against God, against His commandments etc. they all can be forgiven when there is true repentance, that is why Jesus came, to show us His forgivness.

But we are told that the sin against the Holy Spirit is eternal. So I am not “kidding”, as you suggested. :tsktsk:

Hope this helps,
Gloria

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[Richard_White]

Well Richard, I know that all sins an blasphemies will be forgiven but the one against the Holy Spirit no.

Even though the Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Trinity, they all have different functions even though The Three are only One. Jesus also is part of the Trinity , the Son, and He said that who ever blaspheme against the Son of Man (Jesus) that even will be forginven. But the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the eternal sin which will never will be forgiven.

“Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.” Mt 12:31

So let me repeat to you:

So unbelief is a mortal sin which leads us to eternal condemnation: when the Holy Spirit is working through someone and we do not want to believe.

Sins against God, against His commandments etc. they all can be forgiven when there is true repentance, that is why Jesus came, to show us His forgivness.

But we are told that the sin against the Holy Spirit is eternal. So I am not “kidding”, as you suggested. :tsktsk:

Hope this helps,
Gloria

Miss Gloria,

I wonder why you even started this thread or posed the original queation, because you seem to “know” the answer already. However, you really don’t.

I and the rest of us here have given you the answer: the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which, in simpler terms, is the refusal to repent of one’s sins, be contrite of heart, and accept the forgiveness and mercy of God. For this reason, we cannot be forgiven, because we don’t actually want to be, which is necessary.

I think it would be best that we end this thread now, because it is going nowhere and you, Gloria, are not listening to reason or making any sense.

 

[DMC12]

ok, let me give you another example:

do you know many people here are people who at some time became atheist?
well, things goes like this, they at some point did not believed Jesus to be God, that He ressurected, etc. so what is the use for them to return if they already have the eternal sin in them and they wont be forgiven?

now you might say that they regreted that and believed, well then the problem was not doing that sin, but remaining on it. well, then when you think about it, any mortal sin lands you in Hell if you die without repentance.

now lets analyze it by parts:
unbelief without repentance= Hell
Mortal Sin without repentance = Hell
unbelief with repentance= Heaven
Mortal Sin with repentance = Heaven

as you can see the part that changes the destiny is the repentance, that works for both cases in the same way. therefore the eternal sin is to never repent, wheter for unbelief, murder or whatever.

 

[ynotzap]

When Jesus is accused of having and evil spirit, when in truth He has the Holy Spirit we are refusing the source of the grace of forgiveness and remain in our sins, and our hearts(wills) remain hardened (stubborn)

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Miss Gloria,

I wonder why you even started this thread or posed the original queation, because you seem to “know” the answer already. However, you really don’t.

I and the rest of us here have given you the answer: the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which, in simpler terms, is the refusal to repent of one’s sins, be contrite of heart, and accept the forgiveness and mercy of God. For this reason, we cannot be forgiven, because we don’t actually want to be, which is necessary.

I think it would be best that we end this thread now, because it is going nowhere and you, Gloria, are not listening to reason or making any sense.

Sorry that I bolded and made it red in your quote. But if you say that this is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, ie eternal sin, as mention in Mk 3:29, therefore if you can repent of this and be forgiven then is not eternal, isn’t?

And speak for yourself because here there are people quoting Saint Thomas and Saint Augustin who talk about **unbelief **been the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. So read properly and then put out your ideas.
And if you think that this thread does not suit you, stop comming, very simple. And if the others also want to do the same, let it be, this thread soon will desapear.

And I can advise you to go to your priest and ask him what is eternal sin. If he is sincere with you, you will put him into trouble, not even in the Cathechism is mention this, even though our Lord mentions it.

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

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[EIF5A]

Is it a mortal sin to not believe that one will never, ever commit the same sin again in the future?

Is it presumption to want to repent knowing that God will forgive? Is it despair to think that one has not done enough penance before to pray for forgiveness and enough penance after to make reparations?

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Is it a mortal sin to not believe that one will never, ever commit the same sin again in the future?

Dear Eif, I understand that this is a lack of faith and self-control: you always in every single sin have the last word: either you pray more to overcome the temptation or you just like the sin, and any way, “I can repent later”, sort of thing. Since this is a **sin of lack of faith **in the power of the Holy Spirit to help you, yes I guess is mortal sin.

Is it presumption to want to repent knowing that God will forgive?

Did you mean: Is it presumption **to want to sin **knowing that God will forgive? Yes, and again a grave sin.

Is it despair to think that one has not done enough penance before to pray for forgiveness and enough penance after to make reparations?

Well this is always something that the devil is very prompt to do: to make us despair or our sins. I believe that if you repent from the bottom of your heart of what ever you have done, let me repeat: what ever you have done, you will be forgiven. The penance let it be decided by your confessor, i.e. the priest. Still you can do mortifications, but all in all you must NOT mortify your body to the extreme of sickness, God is not pleased with that. The better penance you can do is never to do it again, not even to entertain it in your mind. Remember that the real penance is been paid for you, that is why Christ died in the Cross. Read the Saints on this matter there are lights on our way.

But you will be better off to ask a priest about these things, I am not an expert but since I am a Christian and your sister, I wanted to say something to help you. May God give you peace of mind.

In the love of Christ and His love for us,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

ok, let me give you another example:

do you know many people here are people who at some time became atheist?
well, things goes like this, they at some point did not believed Jesus to be God, that He ressurected, etc. so what is the use for them to return if they already have the eternal sin in them and they wont be forgiven?

now you might say that they regreted that and believed, well then the problem was not doing that sin, but remaining on it. well, then when you think about it, any mortal sin lands you in Hell if you die without repentance.

now lets analyze it by parts:
unbelief without repentance= Hell
Mortal Sin without repentance = Hell
unbelief with repentance= Heaven
Mortal Sin with repentance = Heaven

as you can see the part that changes the destiny is the repentance, that works for both cases in the same way. therefore the eternal sin is to never repent, wheter for unbelief, murder or whatever.

Dear DMC, sorry I did not see your post before…
Are you claiming that a great deal of the 400,000 members that this blog has were atheist?
Even if yes, now they have repented, thanks to God’s grace.

Eternal sin is very specific and not of our every day life, at least now.
Christ gave us the example about how the religious authorities of His days behaved:

It was the unbelief that He was the one they were expecting for…

the unbelief that, in seeing the signs, assumed that He was doing them by the devil’s power…

to believe that he was mad…

all these things pointed to the eternal sin. Now since this kind of behavior is what He called the eternal sin, it means that when ever this takes place again will be eternal sin.

**Now let me ask you: in which occasion this eternal sin could be repeated in the Church of Christ, the Catholic Church? **

Well Christ gave us His Revelation, that he sent with His angel to tell us the things that will happen in the future. Ok? In that Revelation speaks about two witnesses of our Lord that will come before the Great Tribulation. Ok? Rev 11

Now imagine that this two witnesses come and stop the rain and bring plagues, to fulfill the things written about them, and we and the Church go and say: **“these two are mad”, **or “we are not expecting two witnesses” or “they are not making any signs, these things are just the power of nature in action” or “they are witches and with the power of the devil they are doing these things, let us kill them” :bigyikes:

I hope now you understand clearly what I am talking about, it is a situation like the one Jesus lived, that is why they are His witnesses. This is eternal sin

So we must be careful not to commit the same eternal sin, as the religious authorities of His days, when the two witnesses come. Or: do you not believe that His prophesy will be true and take place particularly about these two?

In the love of Christ and His prophesy,
Gloria

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[animalis]

What do you think it means to sin mortally against the Holy Spirit? What Jesus meant?

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I believe Jesus established the Magisterium precisely to present what he means in his revelation. By Canon Law and the Sacred Deposit of Faith we are instructed to see their role as such, and assisted to believe solely on his grace. Certainly, I must say I deserve no merit.

The Sacred Congregation for Catholic Education, says in Ratio fundamentalis institutionis sacerdotalis (1970), n. 86: “…]Uphold St Thomas Aquinas as one of the highest teachers of the Church”.

I say there the magisterial reason to denote the authenticity of the answer regardless of my faults in presenting the faith in the past. Be it Lord your goodness is supreme in your light by the knowledge of the magisterium. And so, In article 2 of question 14 (Second of the Second part) of the Summa Theologica, S. Thomas teaches the Church until the end a time of the “speices” of this sin in question, and they are: despair, presumption, resistance of the known truth, envy of a brother’s spiritual good, impenitence, obsinacy.

 

[ynotzap]

FWIW When Jesus was accused of having a devil they put a barrier up between them and Jesus. They believed in a lie or deliberately lied and in either case a lie is intrinsically evil. If they really believed that Jesus had a devil, would they go to Him for forgiveness? If they knew that they could receive forgiveness from Jesus would they say He had a devil without lying? We know that the Holy Spirit resided in Jesus, and was one with Him and the Father. How in the world could Jesus bestow His Spirit of forgiveness on them as long as they remained hard hearted, or stubborn. Jesus often referred to them as stiff-necked people, what does stiff-neck mean if not “stubborn” unchanging of heart, and mind. They remained in their sin, and will forever unless they changed. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth,and to refer to Him as the devil (Satan is the father of lies) is to place oneself in an unforgiving position.

 

[Layp3rs0n]

What about the part about “speaking against the Holy Spirit”? I assume this means an ongoing sin? Like if a Christian falls into sin, and convinces others to sin with him, he speaks against the Spirit. I assume if he ceases to give scandal and asks for forgiveness he will receive it, no?

 

[ynotzap]

What about the part about “speaking against the Holy Spirit”? I assume this means an ongoing sin? Like if a Christian falls into sin, and convinces others to sin with him, he speaks against the Spirit. I assume if he ceases to give scandal and asks for forgiveness he will receive it, no?

Yes if he asks for forgiveness and repents. An ongoing sin is not necessarily speaking against the Holy Spirit, it’s true its an offense against God. Speaking against the Holy Spirit is calling Him a spirit of lies, when He is the Spirit of Truth, the unforgivable sin.

 

[DMC12]

Is it a mortal sin to not believe that one will never, ever commit the same sin again in the future?

Is it presumption to want to repent knowing that God will forgive? Is it despair to think that one has not done enough penance before to pray for forgiveness and enough penance after to make reparations?

first: it depends, there are sins that are harder to commit than others, for example to actually murder someone is something lots of people dont do in their entire lifes. other sins are more common. yet to believe that you wont do something in your entire life I dont know if its or not a sin, but I would not be so sure. you know, “never say never” of course we should try our sincere best to dont sin, but we can’t be 100% sure we are not going to do it.

wanting to repent of something we did in the past, knowing that God will forgive us, it is what we should do, He already told us, He will forgive any sin as long as we ask for forgiveness. now to sin motivated by His forgiveness is presumption.

the other sounds more like scrupulosity.

are you having any of these doubts?

 

[DMC12]

FWIW When Jesus was accused of having a devil they put a barrier up between them and Jesus. They believed in a lie or deliberately lied and in either case a lie is intrinsically evil. If they really believed that Jesus had a devil, would they go to Him for forgiveness? If they knew that they could receive forgiveness from Jesus would they say He had a devil without lying? We know that the Holy Spirit resided in Jesus, and was one with Him and the Father. How in the world could Jesus bestow His Spirit of forgiveness on them as long as they remained hard hearted, or stubborn. Jesus often referred to them as stiff-necked people, what does stiff-neck mean if not “stubborn” unchanging of heart, and mind. They remained in their sin, and will forever unless they changed. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth,and to refer to Him as the devil (Satan is the father of lies) is to place oneself in an unforgiving position.

there it is, unless they changed, what happened if they changed? were they forgiven? then what was the part that damned them, not believing or not changing? you might say, when they believed they were repent, the same with the other, when you repent you stop being unrepentant. ok, but what about those who believe, but for some reason never repent, like those who suffer despair or presumption. they believe, but they choose not to repent. they still are damned because of other sins, not because they dont believed in Jesus.