How Do We Treat The Homeless?

[petitfleur]

Back to the topic of the homeless

This is a cause very dear to my heart. Dh and I with our children spent two years traveling the country in an RV working with the homeless. I will stop short of saying we lived as the homeless, because we did have a home, with beds, toys, water, stove, bathroom, tv etc… But basically we were transient. While we were generally able to work for enough $$ to move on, I will not forget the many, many kind and loving people who helped us out.

Honestly, my die hard Baptist hubby had to admit, if you really need help the Catholic church is the place to go. We worked and ate at soup kitchens, met with and visited homeless shelters, and lived and loved with homeless folks. And most of them would agree.

Many, but not all protestant churches want to help you…as long as you are willing to “tow their line”, attend their church services, obey their rules etc… Now, not all. Some of the protestant and non-church affiliated services were great. But generally they had a lot of rules and hoops to jump through.

Also we found that some nationwide services, such as the Salvation Army varied from place to place, with some being wonderful, and some not so much.

The one time we really needed some help, one of our children had gotten ill and needed medicine, we went to a Catholic church. Not a charity like St. Vincent, but down to the local parish. We explained we had money for food and such, but not the $85 for medicine. The secretary didn’t even bat an eye. We offered to have her go pick up the medicine (not wanting her to think we were lying) but she just called the pharmacy, found out how much it would cost, and gave us the cash. Then gave us a tour of the lovely church.

On the other hand, in one instance St. Vincent told us they do not help the homeless. They had no programs at all we could use if we were homeless. I was shocked.

And don’t even get me started on homeless shelters. I would rather sleep under a bridge than stay a single night in any homeless shelter I have ever seen or heard of. Horrible places that treat people like scum, or prisoners.

Honestly, the most love and support came from random folks. Seriously. We met people who told us things like “God told me to come talk to you”, and one lady who gave us enough money to live on for a while, just because she said “God was calling her to us”. So I think that it is really us, everyday people who can be of the best help to people. By just not ignoring what is right in front of our face, or judging the guy asking for a handout.

I somehow missed this post excellent! Funnily I have approached strangers after feeling “nudged” to talk to them though not a homeless person. I dont tell them I felt the Holy Spirit inspired me to talk to them either becuase I dont want to alarm them, but it seems to have had a good effect on you.

 

[mommamia]

I somehow missed this post excellent! Funnily I have approached strangers after feeling “nudged” to talk to them though not a homeless person. I dont tell them I felt the Holy Spirit inspired me to talk to them either becuase I dont want to alarm them, but it seems to have had a good effect on you.

LOL, it may have helped that we had a sort of chalkboard like paint on our RV. We would write random verses from the Bible. So I think people were more likely to be open with us.

One great day, we were hanging out in a park, full of people. We had just the words Mathew 4:19. Some guy came straight to dh and asked if we were really fishers of men. During our discussion we asked how he knew that was our vehicle, and he said he just felt led to us.

Seriously, we met some really awesome folks. Just regular folks who were super. Many times we just talked. But many times these folks invited us for dinner, or a place to do laundry. But somehow I think a family, with small kids and a dog is less threatening than the random bum on the street.

 

[alaindelong]

This is off topic, but no Protestant that I know actually believes in Sola Fide – it’s a bit of a misnomer. They just don’t believe that acts of mercy have salvific qualities because they do not believe they need salvific qualities. Ask them if they need to be baptized. Ask them if they need to say a prayer of dedication. Ask them, for crying out loud, if they need to make a decision to believe.

Look at Matthew 25:31-46 It is exactly about sins of omission and it has everything to do about salvation. Jesus says to the goats on his left: "I was hungry and you did not feed me, thirsty and you did not give me drink…etc. In as much as you didn’t do it to one of these the least of my brethren you didn’t do it for me. Their sins of leaving Christ unattended sends them to hell. I don’t know what bible you are reading but Jesus is very specific about His admonition to those who fail to feed His sheep.

On the question of justification by faith alone it was one of the elements that served as the genesis for the protestant faith. All protestants believe that they are saved by faith in the salvific death of Jesus on the cross. That you can do nothing more to merit salvation. It is called sola fide. Matthew 25:31-46 refutes this. With sins of omission in which you fail to love our Lord by not feeding His sheep, the least of His brehtren, you might be headed for hell and you can have all the faith in the universe. Faith without works is dead and Matthew25:31-46 is a powerful testament to the power of charitable works of mercy done for the love and glory of God. Those who perform these works are the sheep on Jesus’ right hand side. The goats on His left, through their sins of omission are headed to hell. I am not revealing that to you. Jesus is explicit.

 

[alaindelong]

This is off topic,

Do you think it might be safe to assume that the least of His brethren that never rec’d food or drink or clothing probably were homeless? Do you think that these sins of omission were committed against only the rich?

 

[ML561]

I have been homeless, in fact, I once lived in one of those proverbial cardboard boxes, in the company of a railroad hobo. You are homeless, you are treated like a criminal. You come into a store, provided you have some money, and are automatically looked upon like a shoplifter. The homeless shelters can be nightmares of overcrowding, theft, and bugs…in the summer most homeless people in my city stay outside and go to shelters only when cold weather forces them to …and then they are often treated like prisoners…in fact, I know of many people who deliberately go to jail come November for some offence that will get them locked up until springtime so they don’t have to go out in the cold. The jailers know these people by name, but they treat them better than the shelters do.

One place we have in my city that is very good is a Catholic Worker House. It is a House of Hospitality for men…not very big but the guests there are treated with dignity. A friend of mine went there today, and I know he will be well treated. Anyone who is homeless or knows someone who is might want to check into the possibility of a Catholic Worker House if there is one in their area. The houses do not require any rent payments. We have Dorothy Day to thank for that. I pray that her cause for sainthood may be advanced. Peace be with you.

 

[Sheeniac]

I have been homeless, in fact, I once lived in one of those proverbial cardboard boxes, in the company of a railroad hobo. You are homeless, you are treated like a criminal. You come into a store, provided you have some money, and are automatically looked upon like a shoplifter. The homeless shelters can be nightmares of overcrowding, theft, and bugs…in the summer most homeless people in my city stay outside and go to shelters only when cold weather forces them to …and then they are often treated like prisoners…

Can you expand on the idea that the shelters treat them like prisoners?

 

[Drawmack]

Drawmack;5555315:

This is off topic,

Do you think it might be safe to assume that the least of His brethren that never rec’d food or drink or clothing probably were homeless? Do you think that these sins of omission were committed against only the rich?

Have you actually read this thread and what I’ve said on it or did you only read these two of my posts?

 

[mommamia]

Can you expand on the idea that the shelters treat them like prisoners?

I can. I work with, and have visited many shelters all across the country. Many are wonderful places. Some are amazing!! Some are horrible, and sadly most fall into the last category.

Most have a silly rule that everyone must be up by 5am. Now some shelters are just “drop in centers” that do double duty, these are simply warm places to sleep and people must be up and out so that it can be cleaned up and ready for its other uses. This is reasonable and fair. Usually the folks that end up at these places have no where else to go and would freeze to death if it weren’t for these drop in centers.

But full time shelters do things like this just because, you must get up at 5, no breakfast until 7:30 and your not allowed to go anywhere anyway. Some won’t let you leave unless you get permission from the director, not to take kids to the park, or get some fresh air, or even to look for a job. Many make people work for companies that pay the shelter, and the workers get none of it. How is that supposed to help them move out of the shelter? Many ration food, even for young children and pregnant women. Some won’t let pregnant women stay unless they agree to put their child up for adoption. Many force religious services on residents. Most will break up families. I’ve seen 6yr old boys taken from their mothers and sent to the “mens” section, with no one to really watch them. They threaten parents with loss of children for not doing everything exactly as the center says, including religious stuff. Many push parents to give their kids to “nice Christian families”

I mostly take offense at the not working with the residents about jobs. If the shelter has rules (many do) that you can only work at “approved” jobs, it can be hard to find work. There are only so many of these approved jobs, and they restrict you from looking for any work other than what the shelter says you can do, since many shelters will not let you even leave to find work. And often the shelter, and the directors and workers personally get kickbacks from these companies. I feel like it amounts to modern day slavery.

They are often full of bugs, not that there’s much the directors can do about that, but its something to think about. Women are routinely sexually abused, both by residents and workers.

Some rules make sense. No alcohol or drugs makes sense to me. Not allowing intoxicated people into the shelter is just a safety issue. Basic respect says you need to be in by a certain time at night. Not allowed unmarried couples without children together helps to make more “family” space for those who really need it.

We also need to remember that many homeless have mental problems shelters are unequipped to handle. And since we can no longer legally send them to mental institutions to be treated…

But I think for me, its mostly the attitude of some workers. The idea that these people aren’t really human, or are somehow worthless.

In my experience, there are some top notch shelters out there. I volunteer at one run by the sisters of charity. They are amazing people, and I feel humbled every time I work with them. Residents are encouraged to find jobs, the sisters will provide day care and transportation as needed. And while generally you need to be in by 11pm, they are willing to work with someone who gets a second or third shift job. I feel like I have seen how a shelter can be run, and want to share it with the world.

I think the problem is that it is easy to get burnt out in these positions. Constantly trying to help people who won’t help themselves. Also, not to get off topic, but the difference in teachings between most Protestant churches, vs the Catholic Church makes a difference. In many Protestant eyes, a homeless shelter is just another means of recruitment since many don’t believe in works. They feel “better” than anyone who doesn’t follow their religion. Whereas most Catholic run shelters seem to have a more loving attitude, due to the belief that faith without works is useless. Plus I find its easier to keep giving when I realize that these are also God’s children and he loves them, and by helping them I am showing my love for God.

 

[Sheeniac]

Mommamia - thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’ll admit I knew very little about this situation!

 

[Spiritoftruth]

…poorly, this will be our undoing

 

[MargaretMary39]

Back to the topic of the homeless

This is a cause very dear to my heart. Dh and I with our children spent two years traveling the country in an RV working with the homeless. I will stop short of saying we lived as the homeless, because we did have a home, with beds, toys, water, stove, bathroom, tv etc… But basically we were transient. While we were generally able to work for enough $$ to move on, I will not forget the many, many kind and loving people who helped us out.

Honestly, my die hard Baptist hubby had to admit, if you really need help the Catholic church is the place to go. We worked and ate at soup kitchens, met with and visited homeless shelters, and lived and loved with homeless folks. And most of them would agree.

Many, but not all protestant churches want to help you…as long as you are willing to “tow their line”, attend their church services, obey their rules etc… Now, not all. Some of the protestant and non-church affiliated services were great. But generally they had a lot of rules and hoops to jump through.

Also we found that some nationwide services, such as the Salvation Army varied from place to place, with some being wonderful, and some not so much.

The one time we really needed some help, one of our children had gotten ill and needed medicine, we went to a Catholic church. Not a charity like St. Vincent, but down to the local parish. We explained we had money for food and such, but not the $85 for medicine. The secretary didn’t even bat an eye. We offered to have her go pick up the medicine (not wanting her to think we were lying) but she just called the pharmacy, found out how much it would cost, and gave us the cash. Then gave us a tour of the lovely church.

On the other hand, in one instance St. Vincent told us they do not help the homeless. They had no programs at all we could use if we were homeless. I was shocked.

And don’t even get me started on homeless shelters. I would rather sleep under a bridge than stay a single night in any homeless shelter I have ever seen or heard of. Horrible places that treat people like scum, or prisoners.

Honestly, the most love and support came from random folks. Seriously. We met people who told us things like “God told me to come talk to you”, and one lady who gave us enough money to live on for a while, just because she said “God was calling her to us”. So I think that it is really us, everyday people who can be of the best help to people. By just not ignoring what is right in front of our face, or judging the guy asking for a handout.

How beautifully you’ve shared - and what a challenging experience that was also an opportunity to experience Christ in others! Now that I’m not a kid anymore - I’m comfortable talking to homeless people and always try to give what I can - I get so upset when someone says something like ‘they are just going to buy alcohol or drugs’ I think, well, then maybe that is what they need today. May God continue to bless you and your family -

 

[HyeDetroit]

There are alot of homeless people here in Detroit. Whenever they ask for spare change I give it if I have it, but there’s always a thought in the back of my mind that they will just spend it on drugs or alcohol.
I was walking with my friend and a homeless person asked him for change because he was hungry and we just walked into a Mcdonalds together and bought him a meal.
anyway…
You would think that in the 21st century in America there wouldn’t be as many social problems as there are today…

 

[petitfleur]

not sure it would make a difference but based on Mommamia’s expierience with shelters perhaps the problem is lack of funds…which goes back to supporting the shelters.

 

[mommamia]

not sure it would make a difference but based on Mommamia’s expierience with shelters perhaps the problem is lack of funds…which goes back to supporting the shelters.

And lack of volunteers. If I try to see things from the workers perspective, I could imagine it would be so easy to get jaded and burnt out. Lack of volunteers leads to long hours and lots of responsibility for those who are there.

Also, I do believe there are some absolutely great shelters out there. Ones that work with individuals and families that want to get off the streets. I feel a lot of what I saw was “worst case scenario”.

 

[Sheeniac]

And lack of volunteers. If I try to see things from the workers perspective, I could imagine it would be so easy to get jaded and burnt out. Lack of volunteers leads to long hours and lots of responsibility for those who are there.

Also, I do believe there are some absolutely great shelters out there. Ones that work with individuals and families that want to get off the streets. I feel a lot of what I saw was “worst case scenario”.

Yes - given the hours, locations and perhaps (perceived) dangers, getting people to volunteer must be tough!

 

[WillieWonka]

Yes - given the hours, locations and perhaps (perceived) dangers, getting people to volunteer must be tough!

What do the volunteers do?

 

[petitfleur]

I guess the point I was makeing was that your money might go further if you give to a shelter. I dont completly disagree with giving change if only to let them feel God’s love.

 

[mommamia]

What do the volunteers do?

Help prepare food, manage intake, some cleaning, talk to the people to decide what their immediate needs are, assign jobs to residents (some of the best shelters try to have residents take some responsibility for themselves), manage donations, put away food, help with fundraisers and finding food and basic necessity donations and a myriad of other things. Lawyers can help with legal problems, doctors can donate time to see patients, computer folks can help with computer databases. Plus each shelter has differing needs. I’m sure if you call your local shelter they could help you find a place that would suit you.

I guess the point I was makeing was that your money might go further if you give to a shelter. I dont completly disagree with giving change if only to let them feel God’s love.

Nothing wrong with giving to shelters, nothing wrong with giving directly to people. I rarely carry cash, so tend to offer to purchase things like a drink, food or whatever. If I do have cash, I may or may not give as I feel led. Nothing wrong with giving gift certificates to restaurants.

Plus, not everyone feels drawn to working with the homeless. Many people have other causes near and dear to their heart, and give lots of energy and cash to those causes. Thats what makes this world a great place. As long as we are not cruel, or support laws that criminalize poverty.

 

[Genesius]

Look at Matthew 25:31-46 It is exactly about sins of omission and it has everything to do about salvation. Jesus says to the goats on his left: "I was hungry and you did not feed me, thirsty and you did not give me drink…etc. In as much as you didn’t do it to one of these the least of my brethren you didn’t do it for me. Their sins of leaving Christ unattended sends them to hell. I don’t know what bible you are reading but Jesus is very specific about His admonition to those who fail to feed His sheep.

On the question of justification by faith alone it was one of the elements that served as the genesis for the protestant faith. All protestants believe that they are saved by faith in the salvific death of Jesus on the cross. That you can do nothing more to merit salvation. It is called sola fide. Matthew 25:31-46 refutes this. With sins of omission in which you fail to love our Lord by not feeding His sheep, the least of His brehtren, you might be headed for hell and you can have all the faith in the universe. Faith without works is dead and Matthew25:31-46 is a powerful testament to the power of charitable works of mercy done for the love and glory of God. Those who perform these works are the sheep on Jesus’ right hand side. The goats on His left, through their sins of omission are headed to hell. I am not revealing that to you. Jesus is explicit.

For one thing, you are confusing those protestants of the early reformation w/ modern day protestants. Surely, you can’t seriously believe that ALL modern day protestants think in the same terms as the early reformers? Most of them don’t even know what ‘protestant’ or ‘reformers’ means, nor do they even care. They’re too busy trying to live their lives the best way they know how based on the Bible. Can we really fault them for that? Can we really fault them for living in invincible ignorance?

Secondly, you say that ALL protestants believe this. That is a pretty broad statement. Have you personally interviewed ALL protestants to ensure that statement is true?

Thirdly, you say that believing in salvation, based on faith in the salvific work of Christ alone(which, of course, involves His GRACE) is refuted by Matt. 25:31-46. That passage was not written w/ the intention of ‘refuting’ that notion. The fact is, we CAN DO NOTHING on our own to further ‘merit’ our salvation w/o God’s grace. Only by His Grace can we do anything like feeding, clothing, etc. the homeless. This applies to both Catholics and protestants, regardless of whether they believe it.

On another vein, we have to define what we mean by both ‘salvation’ and ‘merit’ in the context of what you are speaking of. If you really dig into the protestant vs. Catholic definitions of those terms alone, you will discover that they both mean different things. You mean one thing when you say ‘merit’ or ‘salvation’. A protestant hears something else. You probably are thinking of ‘salvation’ (if you are using the Catholic definition) as a process.

Most evangelicals (notice I’m not lumping all protestants together?) think of ‘salvation’ in terms of ESTABLISHING a relationship w/ Jesus; NOT continuing one. The Catholic definition of ‘salvation’ to an evangelical protestant would include ‘conversion’ in the sense I just mentioned, ‘sanctification’, the process of growing in holiness, and ‘glorification’ when we are glorified on the last day. Some protestant groups share that definition (i.e. Lutherans, Epicopalians, etc.)

Most protestants think of the term ‘merit’ as meaning ‘earn’. When the Church uses the term, she generally means to ‘obtain’. She rarely (if ever) uses it in context of salvation as ‘earning’ salvation. And, again, I would bet that a good majority of protestants DO believe that FAITH W/O WORKS IS DEAD. If they didn’t believe that, they would simply remove James from their bibles, or ignore it, and yet, as an evangelical protestant I heard that passage preached on a lot (and I was in some very anti-Catholic groups).

The bottom line is, no, sola fide does not have a leg to stand on. But then again, I would venture to say I don’t really believe that the average protestant REALLY believes in it either once you get past the semantics…

…and I said I would remain silent on this issue in the future. Okay, so I lied…I’ll go to confession…(-;

 

[Genesius]

Mommamia, You wrote: “Nothing wrong with giving gift certificates to restaurants.”

Why would you give a gift certificate to a restaurant? I guess if you really thought the restaurant needed the help because they might be homeless…LOL.