How do women feel about chivalrious men?

[Lief_Erikson]

I love the idea of chivalry. I am an independent woman, but I still love when my husband opens doors for me, allows me to step out of the church pew to receive communion first, etc. My husband and I are raising our daughters to be self reliant, but I always emphasize the fact that it’s ok to let a man buy lunch, carry a package,etc. chivalry is not dead!

Thank God some women still feel this way!
Image of God:

Let’s not forget that these actions are corporal acts of mercy.

Care to elaborate? I have a suspicion about what you mean, and if I’m right, I agree, but I can’t be sure.

 

[JRKH]

This is a sensitive topic for many, but I just wanted to ask. Some women feel that such men are degrading them. That’s just some of the things I’ve felt that other women believe. So how do you feel about these type of men (if their “chivalry” be sincere)?

I’ve not read through the topic since I did not wish to be influenced by what others may have written. I will give my perspective as a man who married a “Libber”.

*I was raised to be a gentleman. Holding doors and such was common courtesy for anyone, but for women especially.
*I have always tried to treat ladies as ladies, at least until they proved themselves not to be.
*Anyone, male or female, who gives appearance by dress, deportment, language, or gestures that they are not ladies or gentlemen I will treat with kindness and manners, but will not give my trust.
*The above should not be construed as believing women are, as people, inferior. They are the equal of men in all ways that matter.
*My Wife is my partner. We Love each other and more importantly we respect each other. I take care of her and she takes care of me. this is the way a marriage should work.

Much of the behavior that one might think of as “Chivelrous” can be considered as simple cultural habits. For instance holding the door. If the woman expects it and the man knows this the operation comes off smoothly. Each is aware of the “expectation” and that it is the “norm” for behavior.

Personally - I’ll keep holding doors etc. - Costs me nothing.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I sometimes have a little confusion about the protector thing myself. I think modern technology has “equalized” some of that. I live in a state where we can carry licensed concealed handguns. While I do not carry a gun, I have the right to…and if I ever felt threatened enough I could get a license and protect myself with it. That’s not to say that women are suddenly equal to men in physical strength…we can just avail ourselves of the same technologies as men.

I have several girlfriends who occasionally talk about how their husbands make them feel “protected”. Since I rarely feel threatened, I don’t understand what they mean. Protected from what?

I love chivalry and courtesy in men, but the protection thing does confuse me still. There are no longer Huns storming the gates of the city. Our society trades on brain power and finances…physical strength isn’t always necessary anymore, even for men.

(Now, heavy lifting and such…that I need a man’s help with! But it’s not fair for ladies to use you gents merely for your physical traits!)

Feeling Protected doesn’t necessarily mean from physical assault. My wife feels protected because she knows that I will never leave her, I will never abuse her, I will never let anything happen to her that I can prevent.
She knows that the bills are paid, the house is repaired, the car works etc. She also knows that her emotions are safe with me. She can grouse, complain, cry, laugh, be silly and I just love her more.

When we first got married, she told me she wanted to have her own checking account. This was because, a) her first husband was a spendthrift, and b) she had been managing her own money for 25 years.
My response?
OK by me.
We worked who would pay what and that was that. She then had even more reason to feel safe and to trust me. Now she is retired and we have one checking acct and I pay everything.

Even more now, because she has alzheimers, she needs to feel safe and cared for. She gets confused - befuddled, she call’s it - But is OK beause I am there to cling to. I feel safe, though inadequate at times, because God have given her to me and gives me the strength to be there for her.

In short - Feeling safe is not always about “Danger”.

Peace
James

 

[strngrnrth]

To me it depends on a couple of things.
If it’s excessive it’s insulting, like he’s saying I’m obviously unable to do anything myself. Holding a door is always OK. Women also should hold doors for anyone who is visibly disabled or encumbered. If two friends go through a door at the same time, one opens the door and lets the other take it and close it. But I don’t want anyone I’ve never seen before trying to carry my groceries unless I drop them. It makes me feel helpless and silly. Besides, a lot of dangerous people scope people out while doing them unasked favors like that. I can’t afford to accept every offer of help. We all need to be careful.
Also, chivalry is part of the balance of society. We all give and take. I figure men owe women all kinds of things in public life just because of what women do and sacrifice for men in private life. But I have to draw a line somewhere to avoid the impression that I’m involved in the deal. I’m staying single. I’m not going to pay for all the little things, because I don’t find it a good deal. I’m not going to be anyone’s wife. I’m not going to be “making it all worthwhile” for anyone. It seems almost fraudulent to play the lady and never be anyone’s lady. And I hate when I let someone be nice to me and he assumes now he has a right to be overly familiar in the future.

 

[surfinpure]

It was said here that one can tell if someone is from the North based on how rude they are. One can tell if someone is from the South based on how quickly they quit working to get drunk.

And lulz @ not reading anything else in my posts.

If you’re trying to point out that people from the North can be just as courteous as those from the South, you sure picked a strange way of making the point.

Seriously, I don’t believe all Northerners are oafs any more than I believe all Southerners are gentlemen. But it is worth noting the experiences folks have had living in both areas. I think a lot more has to do with how urban or rural the area is than what longitude it happens to be. City people can be quite rude no matter how far north or south. Country people almost always seem mannerly and hospitable. I’ve met far more rude Houstonian urbanites than I have rude Minnesota farmers.

 

[MarieVeronica]

This is a sensitive topic for many, but I just wanted to ask. Some women feel that such men are degrading them. That’s just some of the things I’ve felt that other women believe. So how do you feel about these type of men (if their “chivalry” be sincere)?

I have absolutely no “problem” with a man who behaves as a gentleman (chivalrous… as you phrase it) in my, or any other woman’s presence. An excellent example of this type of man… are the wonderful gentlemen who make up the Knights of Columbus.

I could never understand why any woman would become upset, simply because a kind, well mannered gentleman opened a door, gave up his seat or tipped his hat at her (a gentleman at Mass, this morning tipped his hat to my mother and I). I view this behavior, as simply a wonderful gift of God, that women should appreciate. Our dear Lord has instilled in such men, a certain respect for the women around them (including their wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, aunts, etc). How wonderful!

To me… when a man behaves in this way, it is simply an extension of his Christian love for others.

A man who will hold open a door for a lady, is usually well mannered, all around. He will also hold open a door for the elderly gentleman, exiting behind him; God bless all of you, chivalrous gentlemen out there. You are a gift from God.

 

[JRKH]

If you’re trying to point out that people from the North can be just as courteous as those from the South, you sure picked a strange way of making the point.

Seriously, I don’t believe all Northerners are oafs any more than I believe all Southerners are gentlemen. But it is worth noting the experiences folks have had living in both areas. I think a lot more has to do with how urban or rural the area is than what longitude it happens to be. City people can be quite rude no matter how far north or south. Country people almost always seem mannerly and hospitable. I’ve met far more rude Houstonian urbanites than I have rude Minnesota farmers.

I think you have made a very valid point here.

Also, I think that with courtesy being “optional” these days, that which you receive is more genuine. If a person holds the door, or tips a hat, or even says thank you, it seems more likely that it equates to a positive personality than to a “rote” action that doesn’t really tell us anything about the person’s personality.

Peace
James

 

[mommyof4]

Q: How do women feel about chivalrous men?
A: We need more of them!

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Larowyn]

If you’re trying to point out that people from the North can be just as courteous as those from the South, you sure picked a strange way of making the point.

Seriously, I don’t believe all Northerners are oafs any more than I believe all Southerners are gentlemen. But it is worth noting the experiences folks have had living in both areas. I think a lot more has to do with how urban or rural the area is than what longitude it happens to be. City people can be quite rude no matter how far north or south. Country people almost always seem mannerly and hospitable. I’ve met far more rude Houstonian urbanites than I have rude Minnesota farmers.

It just seems to me that Southerners have this air of superiority over us Yankees about them, as if they have better food; they should have won the Civil War; they know how to be polite; they actually believe in God; their accents sound better; et cetera.

 

[surfinpure]

It just seems to me that Southerners have this air of superiority over us Yankees about them, as if they have better food; they should have won the Civil War; they know how to be polite; they actually believe in God; their accents sound better; et cetera.

No doubt you’ll hear those attitudes expressed by some Southerners, but I wouldn’t take any of it too seriously. I’ve never seen any actual ill will behinid it, and it’s nearly always done in fun. If you’ve ever watched or heard Jeff Foxworthy, you’ll notice that we Southerners don’t hesitate to make fun of ourselves, either! There are at least as many redneck or hillbilly jokes as there are Yankee jokes.

Regional or state pride is not particular to Texas or the South. You’ll find it in Ireland, Scotland, France, Italy, Mexico, Australia, New York City, and a good many other places. People have a natural fondness for their homeland, and they sometimes express it in terms of being better than everywhere else. Garrison Keillor, one of my all time favorite comedians (from the North, too!) always says, “…And that’s the news from Lake Woebegone … where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.” And nobody minds.

 

[Larowyn]

No doubt you’ll hear those attitudes expressed by some Southerners, but I wouldn’t take any of it too seriously. I’ve never seen any actual ill will behinid it, and it’s nearly always done in fun. If you’ve ever watched or heard Jeff Foxworthy, you’ll notice that we Southerners don’t hesitate to make fun of ourselves, either! There are at least as many redneck or hillbilly jokes as there are Yankee jokes.

Regional or state pride is not particular to Texas or the South. You’ll find it in Ireland, Scotland, France, Italy, Mexico, Australia, New York City, and a good many other places. People have a natural fondness for their homeland, and they sometimes express it in terms of being better than everywhere else. Garrison Keillor, one of my all time favorite comedians (from the North, too!) always says, “…And that’s the news from Lake Woebegone … where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.” And nobody minds.

Hey, is that Prairie Home Companion? I used to listen to that until I got sick of the NPR pledge drives. Anyway, Lake Woebegone is in the Midwest if I remember right. The North is north and east of Virginia.

 

[surfinpure]

Hey, is that Prairie Home Companion? I used to listen to that until I got sick of the NPR pledge drives. Anyway, Lake Woebegone is in the Midwest if I remember right. The North is north and east of Virginia.

Yes! I still listen every once in a while. Lake Woebegone is supposed to be in Minnesota. That’s pretty North, eh?

 

[Larowyn]

Minnesota is considered Midwest, I believe.

 

[babydoc]

“Babydoc, how do you define protector/predator”

As I said, I heard a caller say this on Catholic Answers last week – the show about being a man of God. This was not said by the guest on the show, but by a caller with teenaged daughters. He said that there were two kinds of men in the world, predators and protectors. He said that as a dad and former teenaged boy, he would be able to talk to the young man his daughters would propose to date and would be able to discern what type of man the potential date was.

I said I think it is a simplistic way of dividing half the human race – as a girl with six brothers, I find them all unique sons of God. But as a 20-something in the dating world, I met several young men who felt the price of dinner earned them physical favors (of any kind) and felt the date was a waste of their time if they were not repaid. (First dates, mind you). And tho’ some in theory approved the idea of chastity in a single woman, they also dropped me like a hot potato as a waste of time. One (the only one I would term a predator) saw the whole thing as a challenge and stalked me after I dropped him because he was very physically aggressive and tried to obtain physical contact by force. I had to change my address as he would show up at odd hours to try to persuade me.

When I met my husband, I could tell by his manners that he respected women as people. We talked and got to know each other, and married a year later. The physical aspect of our married life is very satisfactory, and as we have raised two girls, he takes care to get to know the young men in their lives, who know (without words necessary_ that this is an involved dad who would crush to a pulp anyone who would mess with his girls. Our son is also being trained up in the art of chivalry towards women of all ages.

 

[TOP]

As a displaced Virginian, I just wanna say, it’s courtesy and it begins at home. Here’s something that may help.http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Foghorn_Leghorn
http://luckyjane.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/foghorn-leghorn-thumb.jpg

 

[LookAWayDixieLd]

I hate how people from the South freely misjudge people from the North. It’s even worse when they are Southern Catholics misjudging Northern Catholics. I could talk about how lazy and unambitious people from the South (including Texas and Oklahoma) tend to be.

As I see it, the girl can open her own door. If she is on a date, the date should be a date and not be a butler interview. Girls should be treated with respect and dignity and as an equal while on a date (and every other time). That’s chivalry. Also, being expected to pay for the date each time is not called being a gentleman, it’s called being a doormat.

Larowyn,

Not sure why you continue to be so defensive about this. Everyone was having a good time with a light hearted thread and out of the blue…bam!!@#$#%#. I was hoping as a Catholic young man(you could be from the South Pole) you might have signed on today and said, “Hey guys, I was tired last night and did not read everything that was posted clearly. I jumped the gun, my bad”. Instead you seem to continue a defensive attitude.

As Sunfin, said above you have strange way of representing yourself as a Catholic and someone from Conn. but if you believe this is appropriate domineer and the appropriate way to talk to others, than your words speak volumes. To me your response is less than professional but if you think it is appropriate than so be it.

Also if it is not your custom to pay for your date’s evening out all the time that is fine too. I have read about people doing that. However I have had hundreds of dates and only rarely has a lady ever picked up the tab for the evening or even a meal. Those rare occasions when they did was my birthday or some other rare occasion. The only other times a lady bought me anything out might have been a drink or two before dinner, etc. Being broke and in college the girls would have me over for dinner they cooked and I rented a movie. But a gentleman paying 100% for a date all the time is not considered a “doormat” in these parts. If it is considered “doormat” material in Conn. that’s not a problem, it’s just the custom, right?

 

[rayne89]

As I see it, the girl can open her own door. If she is on a date, the date should be a date and not be a butler interview… Also, being expected to pay for the date each time is not called being a gentleman, it’s called being a doormat.

I am from the north - opening a door for a woman is a matter of respect, and there are few things more unmasculine than a man expecting a woman to pay for a date. (gag )

 

[Larowyn]

Larowyn,

Not sure why you continue to be so defensive about this. Everyone was having a good time with a light hearted thread and out of the blue…bam!!@#$#%#. I was hoping as a Catholic young man(you could be from the South Pole) you might have signed on today and said, “Hey guys, I was tired last night and did not read everything that was posted clearly. I jumped the gun, my bad”. Instead you seem to continue a defensive attitude.

People in this thread have admitted to assuming people were from the North just because they were impolite! I made the comment about lazy and unambitious Southerners to demonstrate a point about relying on stereotypes. Besides, it’s better to be defensive than offensive.

As Sunfin, said above you have strange way of representing yourself as a Catholic and someone from Conn. but if you believe this is appropriate domineer and the appropriate way to talk to others, than your words speak volumes. To me your response is less than professional but if you think it is appropriate than so be it.

So I get annoyed when people make ignorant comments. Sue me.

Also if it is not your custom to pay for your date’s evening out all the time that is fine too. I have read about people doing that. However I have had hundreds of dates and only rarely has a lady ever picked up the tab for the evening or even a meal. Those rare occasions when they did was my birthday or some other rare occasion. The only other times a lady bought me anything out might have been a drink or two before dinner, etc. Being broke and in college the girls would have me over for dinner they cooked and I rented a movie. But a gentleman paying 100% for a date all the time is not considered a “doormat” in these parts. If it is considered “doormat” material in Conn. that’s not a problem, it’s just the custom, right?

The pursuer should pay for the date, and the pursuant should not take advantage of him or her (buying the most expensive thing on the menu, ordering all of the appetizers, etc). If a couple date regularly it should be dutch or they should alternate on who pays. Apparently the custom here is that if the date is good, it doesn’t matter who pays but the couple has to have sex at the end. Then again, most of my interaction with people of the same age group comes from a campus wherein Catholic discrimination is okay.

 

[Larowyn]

I am from the north - opening a door for a woman is a matter of respect, and there are few things more unmasculine than a man expecting a woman to pay for a date. (gag )

Yeah, and being taken advantage of for the sake of love is pretty emasculating too. Where is it written that women have to get free meals just because they are women? I think it’s disrespectful for a woman to expect the man to pay for the dates, especially if the woman is the one who asks the man for a date. If I decide to start dating a girl regularly and she gets mad because I’d like to go dutch, then she can find some other sucker.

 

[SeekerJen]

It’s interesting you speak of the family. I think today, the mindset is that children are a burden rather than a blessing. Consequently, you come up with families with no children. But is that *really *a family?

I can’t believe that no one’s called you out on this statement. It is horribly rude and unkind to couples who have no children due to infertility. Of course we are families.

Perhaps before you worry about chivalry, you should learn compassion and tact.