how do you answer a JW who believes the early church fathers are all apostates?

[Fidei]

No matter how hard i explain that the Eucharist consist of the literal flesh of Christ as was believed by the early Church fathers as well as the divinity of Christ, the JW would simply say, they are all apostates. Unlike protestants who might think twice about these early fathers’ statements, its incomprehensible for the normal JW.

They tend to stick to their belief that the Church would be “restored” (a very restorationist view) and that as John was writing the revelations, he hid form these “apostates” who were already “ruling” the mother Church.



Ignatius of Antioch; Wherever Christ may be, there is the Catholic Church.

 

[Vasian]

No matter how hard i explain that the Eucharist consist of the literal flesh of Christ as was believed by the early Church fathers as well as the divinity of Christ, the JW would simply say, they are all apostates. Unlike protestants who might think twice about these early fathers’ statements, its incomprehensible for the normal JW.

They tend to stick to their belief that the Church would be “restored” (a very restorationist view) and that as John was writing the revelations, he hid form these “apostates” who were already “ruling” the mother Church.



Ignatius of Antioch; Wherever Christ may be, there is the Catholic Church.

I’ll give you my own experience back 30 or so years ago when I joined the WTS (though embarrassing it may be)
It is a real basic and short answer that I believe is very accurate.

Once you are convinced beyond question that you have “the truth” (as is provided by the Governing Body) and that whatever the WTS teaches is in fact “the truth” and is unquestionable as to it being fact, then the rest is easy. One does not have to actually research anything at all beyond what is provided by the WTS.
So, it makes it very easy to just parrot whatever the WTS states.

If the WTS says they are apostates, then they are apostates and it is easy for a JW to state such a thing with confidence.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Matt 5:13-16
13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

There is no hiding the love of God.

Matt 13:3-9
3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9He who has ears, let him hear.”

If it ever took root at all, how could it die? John’s faith, if it meant anything, would have produced faith in others.

Matt 16:18
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Satan can’t beat Christ’s Church. If the Church was so quickly and easily overcome by Satan’s power… what does that mean about Jesus and His message?

It’s easy enough to re-interpret these verses for the other side, but the conclusions the JWs seem to reach don’t seem to reflect the sheer power of God, of His Will and His Love.

 

[T_More]

Matt 5:13-16

Matt 16:18
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Satan can’t beat Christ’s Church. If the Church was so quickly and easily overcome by Satan’s power… what does that mean about Jesus and His message?

It’s easy enough to re-interpret these verses for the other side, but the conclusions the JWs seem to reach don’t seem to reflect the sheer power of God, of His Will and His Love.

This is key. While most Protestants recognize this verse as an “invisible church”, they also accept that all that accept Christ and have faith will be saved, even though they might be of different denominations. JW’s believe that they, and only they, will be saved and everyone one else will be destroyed at Armageddon.

Vasian, once again, is correct. They feel they are in “The Truth”, so in their narrow minded view, why would I read anything not from the WTS? This is precisely why the WTS teaches their members NOT TO READ these things, like the Early Church Fathers. They know that by seeing the writings of those who, in many cases, were taught directly by the Apostles were Catholic in their beliefs, it would cause some questions to arise.

If it can be established in conversation with JW’s that Christ was establishing a Church (or congregation, as the JW’s don’t like using the word Church) that would have perpetuity in Matthew 16, and then show that Christ promised in John 16 that they would led into all truth and be with them until the end of the age, then some meaningful conversations can take place.

 

[loneviking]

The short answer is that you aren’t going to be able to convince a JW otherwise! And this is a view that is not uncommon among many Fundamentalists/Evangelicals as well. You could try finding a ‘common ground’ in the Bible (pretty hard to do even that) and then show passages where the ECF’s agreed and wrote on those texts. That might soften up their opposition and make them curious enough to want to read more. But, as long as they feel they have all the truth in the world within the borders of the WTS, you’re fighting a losing battle.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The Bible seems to give contradictory advice:

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

Proverbs 26:4-5