How Do You Charitably Complain About Music?

[Kevin42]

I am 19 and have been attending the same parish since I was 4. In the last two years, I have noticed what I feel is a downward trend in the music. We now usually are forced to listen music accompanied by not one, but three guitars. Furthermore, the choir has been increasingly using music aimed at teens and also using the same old 80’s music over and over again. I swear if I have to hear “As Grains of Wheat” or “Unless a Grain of Wheat” one more time, I just might lose temper. I truly wish we could get rid of all the instruments except our lovely piano (now being drowned out by the guitars) and return traditional hymns that glorify God instead of singing about “we”.

I have two problems though. First, I feel like no one who has any power over the music we sing would even care. Secondly, I don’t know how to give my opinion without coming across as some whiny parishioner who wants the mass to be done according to his own opinion.

I have tried to be patient, and just focus on Jesus the whole mass, but this summer, the music has really tested my patience. I really don’t want to leave this parish. I have been going there so long it feels like my second home. I just don’t know what to do.

Peace and good.
-Kevin

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Just say exactly what you feel and be extremely polite about it.

But you have to say something. As a parish director of music, I assure you there are 100 other people telling your pastor and music director that they need to do “relavent” music if they want young people coming to church.

In today’s “do something”, consumeristic culture, the priest will do anything to appease people so that they don’t ultimately lose their parishioners. I disagree with it, but in most places that is how it is.

He needs to hear a viewpoint like yours so that he knows there is another side.

 

[puzzleannie]

just one observation most of the music in Catholic liturgical resources arranged for guitars might have been aimed at teens 30 years ago, but today’s teens view it with the same disdain they do WPMS or the music their parents listen to.

If somebody really wants to fire up teens with appreciation for the Mass through liturgical music they would do well to actually ask teens what they want to hear. They might be surprised. Above all I think they would hear that badly performed guitars are worse than no music at all and are more responsible for driving teens away than many other factors.

 

[KathyA]

Have you thought about joining one of the music groups? You might be able to give constructive (name removed by moderator)ut from that position.

The music at our parish is bad also, but in a different way than you described. However, I live in a small town and there just aren’t people jumping up to help out with the music ministry. The same people have been doing this for over twenty years! Although they continually ask for new members and even new music groups to form, no one ever steps up to the plate.

Kathy

 

[Kevin42]

We have a Life Teen mass that is well attended, so I am assuming that the guitar music they play there is plenty popular with the teens. However, I feel like that music is slowly seeping into the regular masses. I have always felt like an alien or something when I attend the Life Teen mass, and it is worrisome that the regular masses seem to be going in that direction. It does not appeal to me in the least bit. I am perfectly happy to let them have the Life Teen mass with
“teen” music. That being said, I don’t want the teen music in regular masses, and I wish we would find some new hymns that aren’t the same ones from the 70s and 80s!

Our music director seems very popular though, so I feel like if I say anything criticizing him, it will just be viewed as aggressive and mean.

Peace and good.

 

[KenEOTE]

Here is my only thought on the subject. Who is the music for? Is it to Glorify God or to entertain the people in the pews?

The whole point of the Mass is not for us it is for God. It is a way to worship Him with our prayers our singing and reading his scriptures.

We shoudl not come to Church looking to see what we can get out of it, but what we bring into it.

 

[Kevin42]

Here is my only thought on the subject. Who is the music for? Is it to Glorify God or to entertain the people in the pews?

The whole point of the Mass is not for us it is for God. It is a way to worship Him with our prayers our singing and reading his scriptures.

We shoudl not come to Church looking to see what we can get out of it, but what we bring into it.

That’s the problem with the music! It doesn’t even really glorify God half of the time. It is music about “us, we, you, and me”. And for the past five Sundays, our communion song has been about wheat! I try my best to focus on Our Lord the whole time, but sometimes I just get so upset. There is music that provides so much more glory to our Lord, but we are stuck singing the same tired hymns over and over.

 

[JRKH]

I am 19 and have been attending the same parish since I was 4. In the last two years, I have noticed what I feel is a downward trend in the music. We now usually are forced to listen music accompanied by not one, but three guitars. Furthermore, the choir has been increasingly using music aimed at teens and also using the same old 80’s music over and over again. I swear if I have to hear “As Grains of Wheat” or “Unless a Grain of Wheat” one more time, I just might lose temper. I truly wish we could get rid of all the instruments except our lovely piano (now being drowned out by the guitars) and return traditional hymns that glorify God instead of singing about “we”.

I have two problems though. First, I feel like no one who has any power over the music we sing would even care. Secondly, I don’t know how to give my opinion without coming across as some whiny parishioner who wants the mass to be done according to his own opinion.

I have tried to be patient, and just focus on Jesus the whole mass, but this summer, the music has really tested my patience. I really don’t want to leave this parish. I have been going there so long it feels like my second home. I just don’t know what to do.

Peace and good.
-Kevin

How Do You Charitably Complain About Music?

Tomatoes??

Sorry - Just couldn’t resist.

Honestly. Give your opinion. You may be the “one more” that is needed to make the change, or at least tone it down.

Peace
James

 

[KenEOTE]

Kevin42 I hope you didn’t take my post as being towards you. Often in churches Both Catholic and Protestant we get into a mode of what will programs or songs will bring in the most people. We lose our focus which should be God.

I find there is a place for both hymns and choruses and Guitars and Piano’s. God deserves our worship. I don’t know if you play an instrument or sing, perhaps you can volunteer to help with the music.

Or talk to whoever is in charge. The best way is to start with letting them know how talented you feel they are and then maybe say something I’d love to hear you do such and such a song some morning.

 

[DaveBj]

The mickey-mouse ears that people wear when they’re in a noisy environment?

Just an idea.

We have the same thing at our parish at the 11:00 masses every other Sunday. Bleah.

DaveBj

 

[VociMike]

I have been coming to the conclusion that a good approach is to not complain, but to ask for one Mass each week (just one little Mass!) that tries to implement what Vatican II called for. That would include Gregorian chant (the song proper to the Roman rite, and which is to be given pride of place), some polyphony (also singled out by Vatican II) if you’ve got the resources, and perhaps some English plainchant as well. Ask for just one Mass a week where

-The actual texts of the Mass are sung, rather than other texts. “Sing the Mass, don’t just sing at the Mass.”

-The music is holy, true art and universal - the music that Vatican II calls “a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art”.

I’ve even been toying with the idea of starting a campaign called “Just One Mass a Week”.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
I have two problems though. First, I feel like no one who has any power over the music we sing would even care.**

If you were to only join the choir, you’d have something to say about the music, would you not?

 

[DaveBj]

I have been coming to the conclusion that a good approach is to not complain, but to ask for one Mass each week (just one little Mass!) that tries to implement what Vatican II called for. That would include Gregorian chant (the song proper to the Roman rite, and which is to be given pride of place), some polyphony (also singled out by Vatican II) if you’ve got the resources, and perhaps some English plainchant as well. Ask for just one Mass a week where

-The actual texts of the Mass are sung, rather than other texts. “Sing the Mass, don’t just sing at the Mass.”

-The music is holy, true art and universal - the music that Vatican II calls “a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art”.

I’ve even been toying with the idea of starting a campaign called “Just One Mass a Week”.

Where do I sign up?

DaveBj

 

[benedictgal]

Pope John Paul II, the founder of the WYD movement, wrote a little-used and often-ignored piece called the Chirograph on Sacred Music, marking the 100th Anniversary of the document on Sacred Music that Pope St. Pius X (whose feast day falls this month) wrote back in 1903. What was true in the saintly pontiff’s time 105 years ago remains true, regrettably, today.

1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.

St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.

1. Another principle, affirmed by St Pius X in the Motu Proprio Tra le Sollecitudini and which is closely connected with the previous one, is that of sound form. There can be no music composed for the celebration of sacred rites which is not first of all “true art” or which does not have that efficacy “which the Church aims at obtaining in admitting into her Liturgy the art of musical sounds”[15].

Yet this quality alone does not suffice. Indeed, liturgical music must meet the specific prerequisites of the Liturgy: full adherence to the text it presents, synchronization with the time and moment in the Liturgy for which it is intended, appropriately reflecting the gestures proposed by the rite. The various moments in the Liturgy require a musical expression of their own. From time to time this must fittingly bring out the nature proper to a specific rite, now proclaiming God’s marvels, now expressing praise, supplication or even sorrow for the experience of human suffering which, however, faith opens to the prospect of Christian hope.

Pope Benedict took this a step further in Sacramentum Caritatis. He was responding to a complaint by the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist wherein the bishops noted that there were seroius problmes with the music used at Youth Masses. These Masses include LifeTeen and other such liturgies.

Liturgical song

1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. ***Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (***129). Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).

These documents give solid food for thought when it comes to music.

 

[Guitar]

Just say exactly what you feel and be extremely polite about it.

But you have to say something. As a parish director of music, I assure you there are 100 other people telling your pastor and music director that they need to do “relavent” music if they want young people coming to church.

In today’s “do something”, consumeristic culture, the priest will do anything to appease people so that they don’t ultimately lose their parishioners. I disagree with it, but in most places that is how it is.

He needs to hear a viewpoint like yours so that he knows there is another side.

Couldn’t agree more.

I am the nominal lead musician in a parish where PGA’s comment definitely applies and I’d be very happy for any teenagers who don’t appreciate “youth music” to speak to the priest about it, just to balance the picture. (I’m not campaigning against youth Masses or youth music, just fighting to ensure the alternatives remain available for the other 70% of the parish and that they get equal support and resources.)

The priest sometimes only really notices those teenagers who do go to the youth Masses in a bloc. He doesn’t see the ones scattered through the congregation in the other Masses and if they are deliberately avoiding the youth Mass, he has no way of knowing that if he isn’t told. The only youth voices Father hears in our parish are from enthusiasts for the cause who unfortunately seem to be thinking and speaking in catch cries at the moment. Any non-youth voices that caution against assuming that all young people want this are seen as anti-youth, so it has to come from a young person before anyone will listen.

Try to avoid making it look like an issue of taste, so that your point can’t be dismissed as just a preference for the sound of piano over guitar. You may not actually have anyone willing and able (both are required!) to play your instrument of choice. You can do some traditional music tastefully and well using guitars (I have working experience in doing this) but it requires some experience and musicianship skills and when there’s more than one guitar it needs even more of both. Multiple guitars can be very effective but they all have to play different and complementary things and there’s an art to working all that out. But generally you will make more headway if you focus on the repertoire rather than the instrument. If your guitarists are all you have in your parish, you will be told that pretty smartly, so if you present your argument as “we should have piano, not guitar”, that will be the end of that, discussion over. If you focus on the repertoire, you still have room for discussion even if the guitarists are all the parish has.

 

[Guitar]

I have been coming to the conclusion that a good approach is to not complain, but to ask for one Mass each week (just one little Mass!) that tries to implement what Vatican II called for.

This is more-or-less my tactic now. I don’t spend effort opposing what Father allows, even if I think it is misguided and not good for parish unity, as it is Father’s place to run the parish, not mine. I’ll give my opinion and advice based on my experience, if asked, but otherwise leave it at that and then devote my energies to making sure alternatives are available for those that want them.

 

[Sarabande]

If you were to only join the choir, you’d have something to say about the music, would you not?

Not necessarily. I’ve been part of music programs for various parishes and have many colleagues in church music. For most parishes the only person(s) who have a say about the music is either the director and/or the pastor. Sometimes the congregation can have a say with their voice and that’s when music will change. It occurred in my previous parish.

 

[Sarabande]

Just say exactly what you feel and be extremely polite about it.

But you have to say something. As a parish director of music, I assure you there are 100 other people telling your pastor and music director that they need to do “relavent” music if they want young people coming to church.

In today’s “do something”, consumeristic culture, the priest will do anything to appease people so that they don’t ultimately lose their parishioners. I disagree with it, but in most places that is how it is.

He needs to hear a viewpoint like yours so that he knows there is another side.

This is very true. As I said in my other post, my old parish did this. Many people were complaining about the music and some even were withholding money to the parish (I don’t agree with this, but that was what occurred), so the pastor sent out surveys to all of the parishioners to see what they wanted. It wasn’t a great survey, but what occurred was that they got a mix of different music for various masses. Teen masses were in the evening, “traditional” music masses (some not really that traditional) during the rest of the masses and then “folk” masses once a month, I guess to satisfy the baby boomers. I believe it did get rid of the bongo drums, though.

I don’t know if this was the best way to go, but it gave my husband and I a chance to anonymously give our opinion so that it at least provided more traditional music at least with the choir. We no longer go there (and actually, we didn’t go there often while we were parishioners, since we attended mass where I had a cantor position) so I’m not sure what it’s like now.

 

[benedictgal]

This is very true. As I said in my other post, my old parish did this. Many people were complaining about the music and some even were withholding money to the parish (I don’t agree with this, but that was what occurred), so the pastor sent out surveys to all of the parishioners to see what they wanted. It wasn’t a great survey, but what occurred was that they got a mix of different music for various masses. Teen masses were in the evening, “traditional” music masses (some not really that traditional) during the rest of the masses and then “folk” masses once a month, I guess to satisfy the baby boomers. I believe it did get rid of the bongo drums, though.

Sarabande, I hate to tell you this, but, people will opine with their pocketbooks. If they don’t like something, they will withhold their contributions. It’s like an ecclesiasitcal Boston Tea Party, without the tea. I know of folks who will withhold participating in the Diocesan Catholic Sharing Appeal because they don’t agree with the way the funds are being handled.

Withholding money, while not the best approach, usually gains the quickest results because it is an attention-grabber.

 

[pnewton]

Pass on your opinion to a member of the liturgy committee (if you have one), parish council or the priest. If you are the only one to do this, probably nothing will happen. But if you are not the only one to express dissatisfaction, then perhaps you will see some change. Personally, I am all in favor of feedback. I wish people would tell me when they didn’t like something. No one can please all the people all the time, but that is not carte blanc to offend as many as you can.