How do you convince those who do not believe life begins at conception?

[coda]

I dont see how Im contradicting myself. I agree its a cell ALL CELLS ARE ALIVE IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER. However if you take away the nourishment of the body, it will die, all cells need the water and blood of my body to survive. Yes, its alive, but it will only stay alive if it implants and recieves nurishment. Otherwise…it dies, like any other cell. It cant be free floating until birth…IT HAS TO IMPLANT or it DIES. I am not contradiciting myself…your only reading what you want and drawing your own conclusions for my responses. That “baby” will NOT LIVE and just DIE if its not able to implant in the mother.

So in other words, the embryo, which is{temporarily} alive,will not be “fully” alive until it implants in the uterus. The mother will then "keep it alive’by nourishing it–life has finally begun! How do you defend the point that even after birth the mother must still "keep it alive’with the same{ albeit different} nourishment? In both cases, without nourishment, the child will die… life is life , we dont transform from someting we were not into something we are…BTW , it isnt THAT hard to grasp.

 

[remjsmom76]

All cells are alive. Your skin cells are alive. Your muscle cells are alive…that does not mean they are “alive” like you and I are.

I mean “LIFE” itself does not start at conception. The code is there to continue, but its not “alive” but it is alive. All cells are. However the cells to create another human being can only stay “alive” for a certain amount of time without any blood flow or nourishment to it. If you take a peice of your skin off, because you cut yourself, your cells will stay alive for a number of min, hours or even days, but after that because there is no more blood flow to that peice of skin that has been cut off of your body, it will die. It will turn black, neucrotic so to speak. There is no blood flow to it, its not a “part” of you anymore.

When the egg and sperm meet, it starts a process. But that process does not continue until that cell BECOMES part of the mother. It has to physically become PART of the mother to actually continue to live and come to “LIFE”

I know what you are trying to say to me…but I dont think you understand what Im trying to say. You have this idea that I do not respect the cells that have not implanted. Where the fact of the matter is I do. I just dont think they are ALIVE (meaning life…with a soul) just yet. IT HAS THE POSSIBILITY. It has to at least try to implant itself, or it can not continue to grow into a human being. I know it can all stop all of a sudden at any point of the womans pregnancy, that is a miscarriage to me. Its sad but thats the difference, the woman knew she was pregnant…where as if it had never implanted itslef, the woman never knew, and it just flushed away with the menstration of the woman.

When in one sentence you say something is alive, and then in another say that it isn’t alive yet, you’re contradict yourself.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[coda]

All cells are alive. Your skin cells are alive. Your muscle cells are alive…that does not mean they are “alive” like you and I are.

I mean “LIFE” itself does not start at conception. The code is there to continue, but its not “alive” but it is alive. All cells are. However the cells to create another human being can only stay “alive” for a certain amount of time without any blood flow or nourishment to it. If you take a peice of your skin off, because you cut yourself, your cells will stay alive for a number of min, hours or even days, but after that because there is no more blood flow to that peice of skin that has been cut off of your body, it will die. It will turn black, neucrotic so to speak. There is no blood flow to it, its not a “part” of you anymore.

When the egg and sperm meet, it starts a process. But that process does not continue until that cell BECOMES part of the mother. It has to physically become PART of the mother to actually continue to live and come to “LIFE”

I know what you are trying to say to me…but I dont think you understand what Im trying to say. You have this idea that I do not respect the cells that have not implanted. Where the fact of the matter is I do. I just dont think they are ALIVE (meaning life…with a soul) just yet. IT HAS THE POSSIBILITY. It has to at least try to implant itself, or it can not continue to grow into a human being. I know it can all stop all of a sudden at any point of the womans pregnancy, that is a miscarriage to me. Its sad but thats the difference, the woman knew she was pregnant…where as if it had never implanted itslef, the woman never knew, and it just flushed away with the menstration of the woman.

We don’t transform from something we were not into something we are. We “ARE” from conception. Once again, it’s not that hard to grasp. I suspect there are many more issues with Catholic teaching that trouble you.?

 

[remjsmom76]

Yes, the ebmryo is alive but not with LIFE, IMHO…and thats just that my oppinion.

The mother has to keep it alive, sex (back to the start) as I tell my girls, has its responsibilities. A human life is not like that of an animal. You cant just “get tire of it” and send it back to the pound. You have to understand that its someting you have to care for FOR LIFE! Even when that “child” is 40…they are still your children.

Now thats why I believe we need to convince people that that growing being inside them, transforming inside them is ALIVE. I know we have to feed the child, I have that sense of motherhood to protect what I have brought forth. To see it grow, in my case 4 girls. Some people dont see that. We have to convince them sex is a responsibility.

I dont know how to “defend” that point, because we still have not succeded in defending the point that a 23 week “fetus” as they call it is a living being. MY brothers daughter was born at 5 nearly 6 months of life, due to a botched abortion. She lived for 32 days. If one does not want to care for their child, put them up for adoption. I dont have any comments on the latter part of your comment. Your right, we dont transform from something we are not…but you have to “survive” the early stages to continue to form. If you, never had implanted in your mothers womb…you wouldnt be here typing this comment.

So in other words, the embryo{ which is{temporarily} alive,will not be “fully” alive until it implants in the uterus. The mother will then "keep it alive’by nourishing it–life has finally begun! How do you defend the point that even after birth the mother must still "keep it alive’with the same{ albeit different} nourishment? In both cases, without nourishment, the child will die… life is life , we dont transform from someting we were not into something we are…BTW , it isnt THAT hard to grasp.

 

[remjsmom76]

Nope…I have nothing else with cathlic teaching. I never said we transform from something we are not. Yes WE ARE who we are from conception…but so was the egg that was fertalilzed before you that probably didnt take in your mothers womb. Would you call that a lost or deceased brother or sister of yours? I wouldnt.

I dont believe in life AT CONCEPTION only upon implantation…and I dont think there is anything wrong with barrier methods. I dont agree with creating a hostile envrionment for a fertalized egg. Because without the nourishiment of the mother, life can not continue to flourish.

We don’t transform from something we were not into something we are. We “ARE” from conception. Once again, it’s not that hard to grasp. I suspect there are many more issues with Catholic teaching that trouble you.?

 

[coda]

Nope…I have nothing else with cathlic teaching. I never said we transform from something we are not. Yes WE ARE who we are from conception…but so was the egg that was fertalilzed before you that probably didnt take in your mothers womb. Would you call that a lost or deceased brother or sister of yours? I wouldnt.

I dont believe in life AT CONCEPTION only upon implantation…and I dont think there is anything wrong with barrier methods. I dont agree with creating a hostile envrionment for a fertalized egg. Because without the nourishiment of the mother, life can not continue to flourish.

I speak for those that have stopped replying to this thread when I too, say ; " She just does not get it".

 

[remjsmom76]

I dont receive communion because I am not IN communion with the church. I dont agree with confession if your not going to change. What is the point of going to confession and confessing that I do not believe in life at conception when I STILL WILL NOT believe of life at conception after I confess. I tell my girls confession is saying you are sorry for what you have done…saying sorry means you WILL NEVER do it again. I am not sorry for what I believe in. I am sorry that I am not in communion with the church, but that is a sacrifice I am taking. How can I take the Lords Blood and Body when I dont agree with him, in a certain situation. It is the only situation, really.

You dont receive communion: have you tried confession?

 

[remjsmom76]

I do, I get what you are saying…you dont get what Im sayinig. There can only be understanding between two open minds. closed minds…do not see the what the other is trying to say.

I speak for those that have stopped replying to this thread when I too, say ; " She just does not get it".

 

[coda]

I dont receive communion because I am not IN communion with the church. I dont agree with confession if your not going to change. What is the point of going to confession and confessing that I do not believe in life at conception when I STILL WILL NOT believe of life at conception after I confess. I tell my girls confession is saying you are sorry for what you have done…saying sorry means you WILL NEVER do it again. I am not sorry for what I believe in. I am sorry that I am not in communion with the church, but that is a sacrifice I am taking. How can I take the Lords Blood and Body when I dont agree with him, in a certain situation. It is the only situation, really.

Like I said, you have other issues with the church. Obviously, being Catholic does not work for you.

 

[coda]

I do, I get what you are saying…you dont get what Im sayinig. There can only be understanding between two open minds. closed minds…do not see the what the other is trying to say.

My mind is only" open" to truth. THAT being, at this point, that this is my last post.

 

[mlchance]

The code is there to continue, but its not “alive” but it is alive.

That sentence is meaningless. Putting scare quotes around the word doesn’t alter the fact that you just said is alive but not alive. The law of noncontradiction abides, no matter how much we find it inconvenient.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Newbie2]

newbe,
I’ve never heard such ridiculous comments about human conception.
To get to basics, when two people have sex there is a very good chance pregnancy will occur. Everyone today is aware of birth control. All types are avaible. Even abstinence.

God tells in Ps. 139:13-17 while we are being formed he was present. "Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."I like verse, 17 which reads "“How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!”
I hope everyone will keep this teaching in mind at all times. Tell your friends about it.

God bless you,
jean8

I agree, they’re ridiculous. I never said that I took that position, only that it’s a popular (secular) position.

 

[PJM]

I believe life begins at conception. This is what I was always taught, and I believe it. When seeing the quote from the president today, about “no God that condones the taking of innocent life” it struck me that you could only say such a thing, if you did NOT believe life started at conception.

So, telling a person who does not believe what we believe, that there have been 50 million murders, doesn’t really hit home if that person just believes there was 50 million “medical procedures.” (right?)

So how do you convince people that life begins at conception? Seems to me if you do that - all arguments are over, and the laws of the land would change virtually overnight.

Sorry, I have no link. If this belongs elsewhere, please move.
Thanks.

I’m no expert! So factor that in to my comments.

I too believe that life Begins at inception.

I believe this for the following reasons:

I believe in God

I believe in God as Creator

I believe in God in Creator of all things

I believe that God’s presence is necessary to keep all things in existence

I believe that atoms and molecules are “live” (how else would they multiply?)

I believe that Conception is a “nucleus”

Webster defination:
"2: a central point, group, or mass about which gathering, concentration, or accretion takes place: as a: a cellular organelle of eukaryotes that is essential to cell functions (as reproduction and protein synthesis), is composed of nucleoplasm and a nucleoprotein-rich network from which chromosomes and nucleoli arise, and is enclosed in a definite membrane"

Sounds alive to me

And I believe I know why some deny these TRUTHS…

Not to, would force them to admit that they support MURDER!

 

[kalt]

Of course it deserved the “opportunity” to become human, to form into a baby. It is our responsibility to allow that cluster of cells to have a chance. We should not take anything that will chemically alter the state of the womans womb. We should not willingly creat a hostile environment to prevent pregnancy.

Im not saying a cluster of cells can be aborted, not when it has implanted, the body can abort it on its own. That is why I do not believe life starts at conception, to me it starts when that cluster of cells embeds itself INTO the womb of the mother. And yes I do know that that cluster of cells has no guarantee of living when it embeds…BUT IT IS starting to draw blood and nourishment from the mother SO IT HAS A CHANCE, where as a cluster of cells that never our couldnt embed for what ever reason will just die and be flushed out by the menstration of the woman. Yes, I do know that free floating cells do not have blood blow to them, have you read my responses? Yes I know that a fertalized egg that has implanted does. And yes I know it continues to thrive when implants, I know the cells start to split when fertilization starts…but if it does not implant it can not thrive…so it dies…it does not LIVE…without implantation there is no possibilities of life, SHOOT it can implant outside of the womb it has happend before and the child will still live…Ive heard of women who somehow the baby implanted it self on the outside of the womb and into the intestine. The fact of the matter is, no implantaion no life, implantation…POSSIBILITIES OF LIFE. Its not a guarantee

Just for the record…I do not think that once implantation has occured and for whatever reason the “child” has died and been expelled, that it is a spontaneous abortion. I believe it is a miscarriage. I dont like the word abortion, to me that word means the person WILLINGLY stoped the pregnancy from continuing on, and willingly and knowingly killed or allowed a doctor to perform a procedure to kill a growing child inside the mother. Spontaneous abortion is just a medical term. I dont like it.

Your arguments make no sense. You contradict yourself and refuse to believe in the facts of human development.

There’s nothing more anyone can say if you want to make up reality as you go.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Jerimiah 1: 4’Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, 5* “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Tell them The Truth and then let Him who is Truth do His work.

 

[kalt]

Yes, the ebmryo is alive but not with LIFE, IMHO…and thats just that my oppinion.

The mother has to keep it alive, sex (back to the start) as I tell my girls, has its responsibilities. A human life is not like that of an animal. You cant just “get tire of it” and send it back to the pound. You have to understand that its someting you have to care for FOR LIFE! Even when that “child” is 40…they are still your children.

Now thats why I believe we need to convince people that that growing being inside them, transforming inside them is ALIVE. I know we have to feed the child, I have that sense of motherhood to protect what I have brought forth. To see it grow, in my case 4 girls. Some people dont see that. We have to convince them sex is a responsibility.

I dont know how to “defend” that point, because we still have not succeded in defending the point that a 23 week “fetus” as they call it is a living being. MY brothers daughter was born at 5 nearly 6 months of life, due to a botched abortion. She lived for 32 days. If one does not want to care for their child, put them up for adoption. I dont have any comments on the latter part of your comment. Your right, we dont transform from something we are not…but you have to “survive” the early stages to continue to form. If you, never had implanted in your mothers womb…you wouldnt be here typing this comment.

You say that we have to convince people that “that growing being inside them, transforming inside them is ALIVE”.

And you you deny that the “cluster of cells”, which you say is alive, is growing and transforming.

You say you deny this because it wouldn’t keep growing if it doesn’t implant.

Well, the implanted egg wouldn’t keep growing if everything doesn’t go right at or after implantation, too!

You say that it’s alive, but not alive, because everything may not go right before implantation.

BTW, spontaneious abortion IS miscarriage.

 

[kalt]

Nope…I have nothing else with cathlic teaching. I never said we transform from something we are not. Yes WE ARE who we are from conception…but so was the egg that was fertalilzed before you that probably didnt take in your mothers womb. Would you call that a lost or deceased brother or sister of yours? I wouldnt.

I dont believe in life AT CONCEPTION only upon implantation…and I dont think there is anything wrong with barrier methods. I dont agree with creating a hostile envrionment for a fertalized egg. Because without the nourishiment of the mother, life can not continue to flourish.

So you do understand, then, that life is conintuing at implantation not beginning.

 

[kalt]

"All cells are alive. Your skin cells are alive. Your muscle cells are alive…that does not mean they are “alive” like you and I are. "

I understand what you mean about skin cells, etc.

But what about the fertilized egg? You never answered that question.

Are the dividing, multiplying “floating cells” the mother’s cells? The father’s cells? If neither, to whom do the cells belong?

They are human cells. Agreed? If they are merely human cells like skin cells, and are not a unique and whole individual in the early stages of development, which human’s cells are they?

 

[Jennifer123]

If you want to believe that. Scientifically it gets fertilized when its traveling in the fallopian tubes, then it floats down to the uterus. It can also get fertilized in the womb but by the time it reaches the uterus…well its so far along in the menstrual cycle it might be un-impenetrable by the sperm. When I say fertilized, I mean the egg has been penetrated by the sperm. So yes, there is such a thing as a fertilized egg…how else will it start to split into a cluster of cells. Ive taken human anatomy, as part of my nursing courses. I’M sure they are teaching correctly not falsely

Unfortunately you are wrong.

An egg ceases toexist once it is fertilized. Once a sperm and egg join, the new life is then properly called a zygote.
princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

“The empirical evidence shows that the gametes cease to exist and a zygote, the first stage in a new organism, begins to exist within a short period of time.”
bioethics.gov/reports/human_dignity/gomez-lobo_on_dennett.html

Again, the language you are using is dehumanizing language, used in order to either kill embryos through ESCR or avoid the situation, through sophistry, of the abortifacient nature of contraception.

Again, I pray you will educate yourself on what the Church teaches, as you have listed yourself as a Catholic, and be aware of the nature of the battle we are in. You especially, being in the medical profession, are on the front lines and will have much at stake.

I will pray for you.