How do you deal with chronic liars?

[leonie]

My sister has been married to J. for three and a half years. He has a lot of problems. He’s not very smart. He has adult attention disorder. He doesn’t have very good people skills. But, all that is okay. My sister has her own problems with anxiety, common sense, etc. I think some people are put on this earth so we can help them. I see my sister and her husband as one of the reasons that Jesus said we shall always have the poor among us. They just aren’t gifted with the type of skills and talents that help us to succeed in the world.

But…my BIL has some moral problems that really causes a lot of difficulties and anguish in our family. For one thing, he steals. It’s petty stuff–like the change off my parent’s dresser. Once, he stole $180 from my grandmother’s drawer. And, he is a chronic liar. Because he isn’t very smart, it’s pretty easy to spot his lies. He lies about things that don’t even matter. He lies to make other people look bad.

I could give lots of examples. Yesterday, he told a false story about my mother to make her look bad that was an obvious lie. He tells my 97 year old grandmother-- who is starting to get dementia and anxiety-- lies about my mother.

but, what do you do when someone is defaming another or telling an obvious lie. Do you call them on it? Do you walk away?

The most tiresome aspect of this is that my brother was involved with a girl for ten years that was a pathological liar. But, she was clever and manipulative, so we didn’t catch on for many years that she was lying. It was ridiculous. She’d lie about things that didn’t even matter.

Why are my siblings attracted to these personality types?!?

 

[b_justb]

leonie:

… what do you do when someone is defaming another or telling an obvious lie. Do you call them on it? Do you walk away?

You call them on it with much charity. Not to enables the behavior. You’re in a difficult position. Much prayer is needed.

 

[luvmykids]

My sister has been married to J. for three and a half years. He has a lot of problems. He’s not very smart. He has adult attention disorder. He doesn’t have very good people skills. But, all that is okay. My sister has her own problems with anxiety, common sense, etc. I think some people are put on this earth so we can help them. I see my sister and her husband as one of the reasons that Jesus said we shall always have the poor among us. They just aren’t gifted with the type of skills and talents that help us to succeed in the world.

But…my BIL has some moral problems that really causes a lot of difficulties and anguish in our family. For one thing, he steals. It’s petty stuff–like the change off my parent’s dresser. Once, he stole $180 from my grandmother’s drawer. And, he is a chronic liar. Because he isn’t very smart, it’s pretty easy to spot his lies. He lies about things that don’t even matter. He lies to make other people look bad.

I could give lots of examples. Yesterday, he told a false story about my mother to make her look bad that was an obvious lie. He tells my 97 year old grandmother-- who is starting to get dementia and anxiety-- lies about my mother.

but, what do you do when someone is defaming another or telling an obvious lie. Do you call them on it? Do you walk away?

The most tiresome aspect of this is that my brother was involved with a girl for ten years that was a pathological liar. But, she was clever and manipulative, so we didn’t catch on for many years that she was lying. It was ridiculous. She’d lie about things that didn’t even matter.

Why are my siblings attracted to these personality types?!?

I could be writing this very post about my sibling. She sounds just like the clever pathological liar that your brother was involved with for ten years. She even lies about things that don’t matter…would never know unless you caught her in it and knew her well. I don’t get it and don’t understand if it’s a mental problem or just manipulation.

I wish I could give you some advise, but I’m actually seeking the same advice, as I don’t know how to deal with it myself. I just realized that maybe it is more common than I thought and I’m not the only one dealing with this. Lying becomes so much a part of their life, that they begin to convince themselves that it isn’t really a lie I guess.

 

[BlestOne]

Actually I don’t think it is a “type” that attracts your brother and sister per se, I think it is the liar that is attracted to them because of their trusting nature. Habitual liars look for trusting people to be in a relationship with because they naturally trust. I was married to one of these types. When I finally started confronting him, he left after dropping the lie bomb of the century… he denied he had a child from another woman I knew nothing about. He tried to say the woman was a liar and was never pregnant. After he left, I found out he was married to her and they did have a child together! Part of me mourns that I lost my trust in people. I will never be as trusting as I was, but I can still try to be as loving.

 

[dulcissima]

You call them on it with much charity. Not to enables the behavior. You’re in a difficult position. Much prayer is needed.

I agree. I think it is important to call him on it, especially since you say he isn’t all that bright. He needs to know that people know when he is lying and that it isn’t a good choice to lie. I also would not get involved in a back and forth debate in which you have to prove to him that he is lying. When he is lying you both know it and you don’t have to prove anything.

 

[KCT]

I think they live in their own little world and will find a way to get around whatever you confront them about.

I’d keep conversations to harmless, benign topics or avoid the person. They think they’re right no matter what. —KCT

 

[Jeanette_L]

I think that calling him on it whenever possible is a way of holding him to some form of accountability, whether he ever changes his behavior or not. So far, no one has had the gumption to do it, so he’s always gotten away with it. I’d put an end to that.

Even if he doesn’t stop, you and he and anyone else around, will know that it’s not ok to endlessly try to deceive people. And you’re letting him know that neither you, nor anyone else he’s attempted to deceive, are not fools, that’s basically what he thinks of all of you, because he’s always gotten away with it. The jig is up!

And you might get lucky, maybe he’ll stop coming around!

 

[Nechasin]

I think they live in their own little world and will find a way to get around whatever you confront them about.

I’d keep conversations to harmless, benign topics or avoid the person. They think they’re right no matter what. —KCT

I will agree with this advice and I use it when I deal with a particular person oin my family. It has kept my sanity and kept the peace. And if you know they are a liar, you can just discount everything they say off the top and know not to believe them. If it is something important, you should be able to find verification of what they are telling you.

 

[leonie]

And you might get lucky, maybe he’ll stop coming around!

Ah, he and my sister live adjacent to my parent’s house, so when I visit my parents and my grandmother, they are there. I try to go when he shouldn’t be home.

 

[leonie]

So far, it’s split between, avoid 'em and ignore 'em and confront 'em.

I’ve been doing the ignore and avoid. I just wonder if it’s the right thing to do.

He says his lies with so much conviction. It’s like as soon as he says it, it’s become true (for him).

I wonder if Judas was like this.

 

[chevalier]

I try to call liars on their lies, although I suppose in some situations, it would be better to confront them privately than contest a lie in public as it is spoken.

If I had to deal with a habitual liar, I would strenously call any lies ever heard, presenting the correct information. Perhaps the habitual liar would then learn that it doesn’t pay to lie.

However, I’d rather not have to judge habitual liars since while some lie for profit and gain, some lie to avoid embarrassment and some are deeply embedded in their fantasies. Others may have a blurred sense of truth. The intention to cause harm by distorting the truth is not always present. Perhaps not very often, actually.

Some liars are difficult to catch since they will go to great lengths asserting that they speak the truth. They will make you look bad if you don’t believe them. Sometimes you will give them the benefit of doubt in spite of overwhelming odds of probability.

Well, there’s always the possibility that asking him directly will work. “Why do you lie?” Sometimes simple solutions work the best. Who knows, maybe he will actually answer and give you some insight in the situation.

I would think lying in unimportant matter suggests a blurred distinction of truth and falsehood, which probably means that empirical facts are not so important to the person. I would say it’s possible such an attitude comes from very bad experience with the real word. It must be very sad for the person. It should be better to approach him with care and love rather than a justice-based confrontation. At the same time, the lies should never be “bought”, I think. But this might be just my reluctance to tolerate such things. At any rate, I would approach the person with care, but never allow the lies to pass unchallenged. Also, perhaps the experience with the habitual liar of a girlfriend has changed him. That must have been quite traumatising for him. I can imagine… I had a kind of relationship like that some time ago.

 

[KCT]

So far, it’s split between, avoid 'em and ignore 'em and confront 'em. He says his lies with so much conviction. It’s like as soon as he says it, it’s become true (for him).

I think that’s the key. If he believes it, it doesn’t matter what ‘proof’ you have. In his reality, he’s right and you’re wrong.
—KCT

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

he’s lying on your mom. call him out and poke him in the chest!

 

[leonie]

he’s lying on your mom. call him out and poke him in the chest!

That’s my natural inclination

But, if it’s not going to do any good, I want to be able to see my nephews.

Errrrrr, it makes me so mad It’s like dealing with a mean little nine year old neighbor boy.

 

[ridesawhitehors]

ooooo! I just HATE lying! I would have a really hard time with this one.
If it were just an aquaintance I would never talk to them again. (In fact, I have done that) But ME, being the buttinski that I am, I would be defending my Mom and granny like a mad doberman!

 

[kbharbert]

My sister has been married to J. for three and a half years. He has a lot of problems.

**i have a sister like this. she will lie about anybody and anything at any time for absolutely any reason or none.
(if she told me it was snowing in january, i’d look first before i put on a coat to go outside).
she stole money from my grandmother and uncle on a regular basis; even financed a trip to disney world as a result at one point and told a VERY lame lie about receiving a check for back vacation time from a job she hadn’t had in over a year.
psychologically a person like that is said to have low self esteem.
well…maybe, maybe not. i’m not a psychologist so i can’t say but i know her behavior has caused hard feelings over the years between other family members and, as a result, i don’t have as much to do with my parents or her as i’d like.
i FEEL for your situation.

**

 

[dulcissima]

I did have this friend back when I was in college who always lied and always cheated people. I mean, he basically didn’t even have a job, he mostly just bought cars and resold them and was never honest with anyone about anything ever. For some reason I was able to stay friends with him. He mostly did give up on lying to me, because I would just look at him and go “Oh really…?” Or “Hmmmm” no matter how outrageous or even how “believable” his lies were. I never really put myself in a position where I had to trust him, but I did stay his friend despite his unusual personality. I’ve moved around quite a bit since then, but every couple of years he tracks me down and I get a phone call from him. I always recognize his voice right away, then we have the most random conversations, with me saying “Oh really…” and “Hmmm” about all of the wild things he says have gone on in his life since the last time we talked. So, he knows that I know that he is full of it. I don’t trust him, but I guess I don’t really need to. We can still be friends, sort of. I think if you can put your BIL in that same sort of “space” where you are not really counting on him to be honest and he knows it, it can still work in a way. It probably wouldn’t prevent you from being a part of your sister or their kids lives either.

 

[leonie]

I did have this friend back when I was in college who always lied and always cheated people. I mean, he basically didn’t even have a job, he mostly just bought cars and resold them and was never honest with anyone about anything ever. For some reason I was able to stay friends with him. He mostly did give up on lying to me, because I would just look at him and go “Oh really…?” Or “Hmmmm” no matter how outrageous or even how “believable” his lies were. I never really put myself in a position where I had to trust him, but I did stay his friend despite his unusual personality. I’ve moved around quite a bit since then, but every couple of years he tracks me down and I get a phone call from him. I always recognize his voice right away, then we have the most random conversations, with me saying “Oh really…” and “Hmmm” about all of the wild things he says have gone on in his life since the last time we talked. So, he knows that I know that he is full of it. I don’t trust him, but I guess I don’t really need to. We can still be friends, sort of. I think if you can put your BIL in that same sort of “space” where you are not really counting on him to be honest and he knows it, it can still work in a way. It probably wouldn’t prevent you from being a part of your sister or their kids lives either.

Not a bad idea…hmmmmmm.

I think if he says anything like that to me again, I will say, “I can’t believe that! You must be mistaken.”

And if he insists, I’ll just repeat myself and change the subject. Then, he’ll at least know that I won’t listen to that kind of talk.

I’ve also decided that I will make some kind of fast for him. I just need to settle on something that is meaningful but not too difficult for me. I’m not very good at fasting.

 

[SMHW]

I’m not so sure the BIL’s ‘lying’ is actually a moral issue in the truest sense of the word. It seems more likely that he has the irrational but sincere notion (which evidently has worked quite well for him; irrational notions are often quite logical) that by stating what he wishes was the truth that it will somehow become the truth. That’s the only way he knows how to have any control over his environment. My guess is that confronting him won’t help much because he’ll just have to create some new reality (a lie to everyone else) to regain the control you’re trying to strip away.

I doubt any of you can ‘fix’ him. If you want harmony with him you’re just going to have to find areas of conversation where you can agree about what is true. And you’ll probably have to stay one step ahead of him so he agrees to your view of reality before he comes up with his own. (Eg. Look! MARY has a new watch. Tell me, don’t you think it looks better on MARY than it could on anyone else in the world? This watch was designed for MARY, wasn’t it?)

As for why siblings seek out such people, it’s usually because they meet some ‘need’ in the sibling or confirm some image the sibling has of himself/herself.

 

[leonie]

I’m not so sure the BIL’s ‘lying’ is actually a moral issue in the truest sense of the word. It seems more likely that he has the irrational but sincere notion (which evidently has worked quite well for him; irrational notions are often quite logical) that by stating what he wishes was the truth that it will somehow become the truth. That’s the only way he knows how to have any control over his environment. My guess is that confronting him won’t help much because he’ll just have to create some new reality (a lie to everyone else) to regain the control you’re trying to strip away.

I doubt any of you can ‘fix’ him. If you want harmony with him you’re just going to have to find areas of conversation where you can agree about what is true. And you’ll probably have to stay one step ahead of him so he agrees to your view of reality before he comes up with his own. (Eg. Look! MARY has a new watch. Tell me, don’t you think it looks better on MARY than it could on anyone else in the world? This watch was designed for MARY, wasn’t it?)

As for why siblings seek out such people, it’s usually because they meet some ‘need’ in the sibling or confirm some image the sibling has of himself/herself.

very insightful and probably accurate. There’s something not right with this guy. I am going to pray that God will show me his virtues so I can try to like him. And, I will pray to love him, too.

It must take a special person to be a social worker. I imagine they deal with this personality type a lot.