How do you deal with the seemingly murky bits of Catholicism

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Censorship of the press and books or to speak disrespectfully of Calvin or clergy was a crime. First with a reprimand then fine. For continuous violations prison or banished. Fornication was exile or drowning. Adultery, blasphemy or idolatry with death. Once a child was beheaded for striking the parents. [pg474]

From 1558-59 there were 414 prosecutions on moral offenses in 22 years there were seventy-six banishments, fifty-eight executions out of a population of about twenty thousand. Torture was often used to get confessions as everywhere in sixteenth century. [474]

In one year 14 people found guilty of being witches went to the stake. The entire household was to attend sermons on Sunday unless attending children or cattle. If there was preaching on weekdays all who could must come, Calvin preached 3 or 4 times a week. No one was excused from services for having another private belief. [473]

An elder visited each house in an assigned quarter every year asking questions on every phase of their lives. Things prohibited were profanity, card playing, drunkenness, frequenting taverns, dancing, irreligious songs, excessive entertainment, extravagance in living, immodest dress, wrong color and amount of clothing. A woman could be jailed having her hair to an immoral height, an obstinate father served 4 days in jail for naming his son Claude instead of Abraham, etc… [474]

Geneva was a theocracy, State and religion was one under Calvin. Pg464 outside church no salvation according to Calvin. Source for all above. “The Story of Civilization, The Reformation”, by Will Durant.
 
Well,
Another nun, free lancing. I wasn’t smart enough to come up w that myself.
What is important is faith in God in totu and scripture and tradition of Catholic Church. We have to keep our eyes vertical on JESUS. Horizontal vision will disappoint us.
In Jesus s name.
Tweedlealice
 
Blessings
Jlhargus,Were you a Presbyterian? That was very interesting. Today, finding the Ethiopian church, w Catholic belief roots, is exciting. I got the idea that their belief systems are connected more w Gnostic gospels. I don’t read Ethiopian. SMILE.
The missing tribe of Judaism,found in Ethiopia,
was exciting and received into Israel. I got the idea, their beliefs had a few unique ideas.
In Christ’s love.
Tweedlealice
 
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Sure, so some of the things include:

The above Mary Magdalene skull thing, which was worded as “Catholic’s walk through the streets with Mary Magdalene’s head on a stick”. (not quite accurate).
Relics, which include the body parts of saints, get venerated. This is more of a European custom, so sometimes people from USA find it creepy when they go to Italy and see things like St. Anthony’s tongue on display for veneration. Also in USA you don’t tend to have big parades of body parts of saints through the street. I understand the practice, but if you aren’t comfortable with it then you don’t need to participate in it, and frankly, if the Mary Magdalene parade is not coming down your block, it’s easy enough to ignore.
Paedophilia in the church and the cover-ups that followed.
Some people are sinful, evil and/or mentally ill. Some people also make mistakes- I would say that the way the Church has dealt in the past with pedophiles was a big mistake, brought on partly by not understanding that pedophiles would continue to reoffend. “Some people” can include Church clergy, leaders, etc. There are also a lot of good people, which includes a lot of good Church clergy, leaders etc. and I know quite a few who have never been involved in a scandal with pedophilia or any other crime.
We pray for the Church and align ourselves with the good, sensible leaders, while pushing for appropriate changes in the policies to avoid having anything like this ever happen again.
The crusades and putting enemies heads on spikes.
Happened hundreds of years ago; Catholics were not the only ones doing it; it was a cultural thing back then; I’m happy our culture has evolved to where Catholics do not lead crusades. I would like to think we have generally evolved as a society, although I’m not certain nuclear war is an improvement over heads on spikes; I’m more concerned with nuclear war and terrorism as this is what we are dealing with right now, not a lot of confusion from 1000 years ago.
Killing other Christians in the Roman Inquisition.
I’m not sure exactly what this refers to, but let’s just say I believe in “Thou shalt not kill” and like I said above I am not seeing this happening today. I really can’t do anything about what somebody may have misguidedly done 1000 years ago so I don’t exactly lay awake nights fretting over my position on it. I’d rather go try to love somebody right now today in my own reality and culture.

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Burning witches.
Most witch-burning and witch-torturing was not done by the Catholic Church but by various Protestant and government groups. To the extent the Catholic Church was responsible for anyone being burned, please see my comments above about how humans including Church leaders can be sinful/ make mistakes and also how stuff that happened 1000 years ago is not really relevant to my current daily life. I would hope nobody, whether they are Catholic, Protestant, or atheist, burns people today and if I saw this happening I would speak out against it regardless of who was doing it.
Selling indulgences etc.
The sale of indulgences has been outlawed by the Church for hundreds of years. I get indulgences now every day, for deceased souls in purgatory. I get them by saying prayers and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn’t cost me a dime - praying and receiving the Sacraments are free.
 
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I love all the gothic, somewhat morbid, tough qualities about the Catholic tradition.
I never thought anything of it -
being immersed in it all since day one -

As a side note, I was touched / blessed
by a small bone fragment of Saint Francis of Assisi -
Many of us were in line - but very cool !
 
You know why my texting is not exactly grammatically correct, I TWEET! We only had 128 spaces in which to communicate. Now, it’s 240 sp. That’s better. I talk in Tweet shorthand.
I’ll try to text differently than my tweeting.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
 
Sure, so some of the things include:
I expect these are examples of my inquiry about what is meant by the “murky bits of Catholicsm”?
The above Mary Magdalene skull thing, which was worded as “Catholic’s walk through the streets with Mary Magdalene’s head on a stick”. (not quite accurate).
This procession is not part of the doctrine of the Catholic faith.
Paedophilia in the church and the cover-ups that followed.
Committing sin is not part of the teaching of the Catholic Church. Covering up for sin is not either.

Paedophilia is a sin that exists in human culture. Catholics are not exempt from sin.
The crusades and putting enemies heads on spikes.
The crusades and the gross abuses committed by soldiers are also not part of Catholic Teaching.
Killing other Christians in the Roman Inquisition.
There is a lot if history and complex theological issues with regard to this. Suffice to say that the Church does not condone the killing of those who do not espouse the Catholic faith.
Burning witches.
There were more “witches” burned by Puritans and other non-Catholics than there were ever burned by Catholics. Suffice to say that being Catholic does not exempt primitive persons from acting out of fear. The Catholic Church does not condone the burning of anyone.
Selling indulgences etc.
It is not possible to “sell” an indulgence. The Church abhors even the appearance of such behavior.

It appears your “murky bits” are actually just examples of fallen human nature, committed at times by persons who claim to be Catholic. None of them are “Catholicism”.
Maybe I’ll see if I can find a Catholic Church history book or something. I
You will find that all of the issues have been addressed here at CAF, and there are some very good books that specifically address these old and worn out issues.
it looks like it wasn’t just a church thing but a government thing as well? As in the decision wasn’t always in the hands of the church, they were somewhat at the mercy of the government?
In fact, the Inquisition saved more lives because it gave an opportunity for appeal against summary execution. One has to look at this in historical context. In that day and age, heresy was considered treason, and was punishable by death. There was no concept of the separation of Church and State.
 
Thank you so much for all of the replies. I’m sorry I couldn’t respond earlier, because I’m new to the forums I reached a reply limit and had to wait for a while until I could post again.

You’ve all given me so many amazing viewpoints and resources to go and have a look into. I think I’m going to head along to my first Mass on Wednesday morning and talk to the Priest as well if he’s not busy.

As for family and trying to counter argue the things they throw at me, for now I think I’m just going to ban it as a topic of conversation. I feel that I should have the right to make my own choices and that this is between God and I and no one else. I respect their choices, and don’t put their religious choices down or judge them, and I feel they should do the same. I don’t want to be sidetracked from what I feel is becoming a very special walk for me by having to defend ignorant viewpoints. I’m sorry, I don’t mean that to sound harsh or rude I just feel that the more I look into this the more I realise that Evangelical arguments against Catholicism are often based on either blatant lies or complete ignorance and it’s frustrating, and telling. If you have to resort to lying or lying by omission about something in order to make it look bad then…that says a lot.

So, for now, I’m going to pop the apologetics aside and start reading the Catechism, everything else can come later.

Thank you all so much, you’ve been a lovely introduction for me in to the kindness of Catholics 🙂
 
As for family and trying to counter argue the things they throw at me, for now I think I’m just going to ban it as a topic of conversation.
This is an excellent plan. No matter how good one argues, it is unlikely to convince anyone whose mind is made up.

Just remember that the Church is not an administrative body somewhere, it is a huge group of humans, with human failings, including bad judgment and sins both big and small. We are all the Church. So the best way to improve things in the Church is to simply be the best Catholic you can be, yourself.
 
I understand evangelical non-denomination. It’s a denomination.
God bless you
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
The crusades

You’re seriously comparing a defensive war against hostile enemies to pedophilia?
No! I thought they were just both relegated to the category of “murky bits of Catholicism”?

Besides, many of the atrocities committed by soldiers during the crusades certainly are on par with pedophilia.
Thank you so much for all of the replies. I’m sorry I couldn’t respond earlier, because I’m new to the forums I reached a reply limit and had to wait for a while until I could post again.
@Lyllie Try putting as many replies in one post as you can. Scroll down the thread, highlight the parts you want to respond to and fill one post to the character limit.
As for family and trying to counter argue the things they throw at me, for now I think I’m just going to ban it as a topic of conversation.
I think this is a very prudent and healthy boundary.
 
Thank you so much for all of the replies. I’m sorry I couldn’t respond earlier, because I’m new to the forums I reached a reply limit and had to wait for a while until I could post again.

As for family and trying to counter argue the things they throw at me, for now I think I’m just going to ban it as a topic of conversation. I feel that I should have the right to make my own choices and that this is between God and I and no one else.
So, for now, I’m going to pop the apologetics aside and start reading the Catechism, everything else can come later.

Thank you all so much, you’ve been a lovely introduction for me in to the kindness of Catholics 🙂
I would suggest…to have then come here in the forums and engage us Catholics here…if they are that confident to disprove Catholicism…😎😁
 
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