How do you deal with those you cannot trust?

[oldrover]

Good grief. That is some psycho nastiness you’re dealing with. My condolences, and prayers to you and your husband.

 

[Irishmom2]

nothing good was going to come of calling the relative on this petty way of dealing with things.

Really? I have to say that for me, it would have changed everything if my husband called that person out. It may have made them think twice about doing it to other people.

 

[EasterJoy]

Really? I have to say that for me, it would have changed everything if my husband called that person out. It may have made them think twice about doing it to other people.

It’s been tried. Lots of friendships cooled, let’s just say that.

You can’t teach a pig to sing. You just frustrate yourself and annoy the pig.

 

[EasterJoy]

Good grief. That is some psycho nastiness you’re dealing with. My condolences, and prayers to you and your husband.

Yes. This kind of thing is a lot more common than you’d think. Mostly happens in middle school, though. Queen bees and all of that.

 

[AnthonysMom]

I wish I could offer advice, but I can offer sympathy as I’ve been going through a similar situation with my husband’s sister. I’m following this thread because it gives many helpful insights for my own situation, so I thank you for that!

 

[holyrood]

Yes, I have people like this in my life.

I agree with the person who said your husband doesn’t have your back on this. He should be sticking up for you.

In my case, I was polite for as long as I could be, simply talked with others ignored the offending parties.

When I realized the poison had spread I simply quit going to family gatherings. Those who snubbed me repeatedly in my own home are no longer welcome in my home.

 

[EasterJoy]

I wish I could offer advice, but I can offer sympathy as I’ve been going through a similar situation with my husband’s sister. I’m following this thread because it gives many helpful insights for my own situation, so I thank you for that!

What made me kick myself later is that I knew they could be like this and for some unknown reason I thought I was on the “exempt” list. I suppose it was pride on my part. I thought I could get along with them better than other people did. I did not realize that I was not an exception and that in fact there are not any exceptions except in their own minds. They talk as if there are naughty people and nice people. Instead, there are people who have offended them, who get this treatment, and on the other hand there are people who have not offended them yet. I have tried to think of someone who used to be on their naughty list who got off of it, but I’m not sure there are any. (I mean based on what they used to say and do back when they spoke freely to each other in my presence.)

That is neither here nor there. I don’t know why they are like this. It doesn’t seem like a very pleasant way to live. They are the main ones who suffer from this score-keeping. The main thing is that I don’t want this experience to make me like that, too. I need to deal with this in a way that both recognizes that past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior without letting them become some extreme villians in my mind. There are just certain areas where I can’t trust them. Some things: yes. Other things: No way.

The take-home message is that you should assume other people really do treat everyone the same, if you only give them long enough. That has turned out to be a valuable lesson. The corollary is that if you give yourself a pass on decent behavior towards “some” people, you’ll get around to giving yourself a pass on everyone, eventually. That is a good one to carry around, too. If you don’t like the way you treated someone, don’t think that was some anamoly, that you “aren’t like that.” No, if you did that, you have work to do. The thing I did to set them off was something I had to look at. Otherwise, it would be a matter of time before I did the same thing again.

Yes, I have people like this in my life.

I agree with the person who said your husband doesn’t have your back on this. He should be sticking up for you.

In my case, I was polite for as long as I could be, simply talked with others ignored the offending parties.

When I realized the poison had spread I simply quit going to family gatherings. Those who snubbed me repeatedly in my own home are no longer welcome in my home.

I think the only thing that kept us from this is that we don’t see these relatives very often. The other thing is that this has not spread beyond their immediate family and isn’t likely to do so. Their list of “naughties” is very long. I’m in some very good company, really, if I keep this in perspective.

This thread is turning out to be very helpful. Sometimes you feel as if you’re the only one who has this problem.

 

[felsguy]

So quite awhile ago you said something that really offended these people.

I wrote something that offended them many years back (10?).

And in retaliation they were very mean to you for some time.

I was then shunned for two or three years. .

But then they stopped?

Eventually, things thawed, and they stopped finding excuses why they could not attend family gatherings at our house. Nothing was ever said about it to me.

And now they act like none of this ever happened?

Now, though, they’re just acting as if there was never any problem in the first place. If we were to say anything now, the chances are they’d claim they didn’t have the least idea what we were talking about and act for all the world as if we had suddenly developed a paranoia disorder. .

Perhaps you might just do the same

 

[EasterJoy]

So quite awhile ago you said something that really offended these people.

And in retaliation they were very mean to you for some time.

But then they stopped?

And now they act like none of this ever happened?

Perhaps you might just do the same

You don’t understand. My feeling that I cannot trust them does not come from “mean” behavior. It comes from being subjected to their covert aggression when they never admitted to me directly that they were angry at all. Not to go into detail, but the issue has to do with one of them seeing I was bothered by something, asking me about it, pledging confidentiality, then blabbing to the group behind my back what I had said, concluding that I was an awful person, making a bid to turn my husband against me behind my back and shunning me as much as plausible deniability would allow without ever admitting they were ever angry at me in the first place.

How can I apologize to whoever was offended by things I never said to them and can’t know that they were told? I don’t know who was told about anything, nor what they were told, and I have zero reason to believe that they’d honestly admit what they had been told if I asked them directly. Doing that would let on that the person who had promised to be discrete had blabbed everything.

Yes, I can continue to act like none of this happened. I do not see why it is even rational to believe I can trust this group to be direct with me, though. My husband? He doesn’t see why I thought I could trust them in the first place. He stays on safe subjects himself.

Do you see my point? How can I let my guard down? How can I feel secure around them? If I offend them by some careless comment, they are not going to say so. That is not how it works. Those who are in the “out” group are just systematically but covertly cut out. Shunned. You get the “social smile,” but you are persona non grata. Other people will hear what they think of you, but you will not. They’ve done it to their own sister, their own cousin, so I don’t know what made me think I was special.

Of course it bothers me. It bothers me a lot. That’s not the kind of social gathering I really care to have. It bothers my husband, too. Not everything in this world is in our power to change, though. Those who had these gatherings can’t have them any more. It is our place or nothing, and so either we host or the gatherings stop for everybody. Sometimes you have to accept what you can’t change and accept the cards you have, yes. Accepting the situation is sometimes easier said than done, though. Still, it is hosting a gathering which will have a lot of people other than those who might or might not wish they were anywhere else in the world. I can’t let that be my problem. If they want to talk, I’ll talk. If they don’t, there is nothing I can do about that.

 

[gardenswithkids]

You don’t understand. My feeling that I cannot trust them does not come from “mean” behavior. …Yes, I can continue to act like none of this happened. I do not see why it is even rational to believe I can trust this group to be direct with me, though. My husband? He doesn’t see why I thought I could trust them in the first place. He stays on safe subjects himself.

Do you see my point? How can I let my guard down? How can I feel secure around them? If I offend them by some careless comment, they are not going to say so. That is not how it works. Those who are in the “out” group are just systematically but covertly cut out. Shunned. You get the “social smile,” but you are persona non grata. Other people will hear what they think of you, but you will not. They’ve done it to their own sister, their own cousin, so I don’t know what made me think I was special.

Of course it bothers me. It bothers me a lot. That’s not the kind of social gathering I really care to have. It bothers my husband, too. Not everything in this world is in our power to change, though. Those who had these gatherings can’t have them any more. It is our place or nothing, and so either we host or the gatherings stop for everybody. Sometimes you have to accept what you can’t change and accept the cards you have, yes. Accepting the situation is sometimes easier said than done, though. Still, it is hosting a gathering which will have a lot of people other than those who might or might not wish they were anywhere else in the world. I can’t let that be my problem. If they want to talk, I’ll talk. If they don’t, there is nothing I can do about that.

It seems to me that you* can *trust:
You can trust them to behave differently than you once expected them to behave.
You can trust that something told in confidence might get repeated.
You can trust that they might take offense to something you say or do.
You can trust that they will not be direct with you.
You can trust them to act like nothing happened.
You can trust them to be who they are.

Now that you better know who you are dealing with, you are far less likely to be as hurt by them as you were ten years ago. It was* ten years ago *when this started. You know them better now–and some of the other family members attending the party know them better too. (Shunned sister? Shunned cousin? Then there’s probably others too.) Learn from the past, but don’t live in it.

If they come to this upcoming gathering at your house, then they have gotten beyond shunning you. You say they act as if none of this ever happened. Do the same. Act. Smile. Be polite. Be a gracious hostess to all your party guests.

Since you will be hosting a large gathering, even if you wanted to spend time having deep, heart-to-heart conversations with them, it would be awkward to do so while simultaneously hosting a large family gathering at you home.

It sounds to me like you may be a bit nervous about hosting this large gathering. Maybe it’s just because these people are coming, or maybe it’s because hosting large gatherings is stressful for some people, or maybe it’s a little of both. Whatever, the reason, the fact that you will be with them in a large group setting on your turf at a party you are hosting makes spending time with these particular people easier for you. Set aside your worries about seeing them and instead focus on the food and other party prep to help take your mind off of them.

You are being gracious and opening your home to many guests. Don’t worry about the guests that you can trust to disappoint you. When you start to worry about them, say a little prayer. And if you must worry and fret over this upcoming gathering, find something more trivial to worry about relating to the party, perhaps like the food or what you should wear. Then read and reflect on Luke 12:27.

Have fun at your party! :dancing:

 

[EasterJoy]

It seems to me that you* can *trust:
You can trust them to behave differently than you once expected them to behave.
You can trust that something told in confidence might get repeated.
You can trust that they might take offense to something you say or do.
You can trust that they will not be direct with you.
You can trust them to act like nothing happened.
You can trust them to be who they are.

Now that you better know who you are dealing with, you are far less likely to be as hurt by them as you were ten years ago. It was* ten years ago *when this started. You know them better now–and some of the other family members attending the party know them better too. (Shunned sister? Shunned cousin? Then there’s probably others too.) Learn from the past, but don’t live in it.

If they come to this upcoming gathering at your house, then they have gotten beyond shunning you. You say they act as if none of this ever happened. Do the same. Act. Smile. Be polite. Be a gracious hostess to all your party guests.

Since you will be hosting a large gathering, even if you wanted to spend time having deep, heart-to-heart conversations with them, it would be awkward to do so while simultaneously hosting a large family gathering at you home.

It sounds to me like you may be a bit nervous about hosting this large gathering. Maybe it’s just because these people are coming, or maybe it’s because hosting large gatherings is stressful for some people, or maybe it’s a little of both. Whatever, the reason, the fact that you will be with them in a large group setting on your turf at a party you are hosting makes spending time with these particular people easier for you. Set aside your worries about seeing them and instead focus on the food and other party prep to help take your mind off of them.

You are being gracious and opening your home to many guests. Don’t worry about the guests that you can trust to disappoint you. When you start to worry about them, say a little prayer. And if you must worry and fret over this upcoming gathering, find something more trivial to worry about relating to the party, perhaps like the food or what you should wear. Then read and reflect on Luke 12:27.

Have fun at your party! :dancing:

That is it in a nutshell, excepting that I really cannot “trust” that they’re saying one thing and thinking and saying something else entirely when I’m not there.

Covert aggression is the gift that keeps on giving. Those who start it can give it up and truly forget it ever happened, but their targets can’t really tell if there has been a cease-fire or not. The incident was so far in the past, part of me feels nutty to even be concerned about it. Then I remember going through it. It was one of those things you don’t want to repeat in the slightest degree. Still, you are right: worrying won’t change anything.

 

[felsguy]

You don’t understand. My feeling that I cannot trust them does not come from “mean” behavior. It comes from being subjected to their covert aggression when they never admitted to me directly that they were angry at all. Not to go into detail, but the issue has to do with one of them seeing I was bothered by something, asking me about it, pledging confidentiality, then blabbing to the group behind my back what I had said, concluding that I was an awful person, making a bid to turn my husband against me behind my back and shunning me as much as plausible deniability would allow without ever admitting they were ever angry at me in the first place.

How can I apologize to whoever was offended by things I never said to them and can’t know that they were told? I don’t know who was told about anything, nor what they were told, and I have zero reason to believe that they’d honestly admit what they had been told if I asked them directly. Doing that would let on that the person who had promised to be discrete had blabbed everything.

Yes, I can continue to act like none of this happened. I do not see why it is even rational to believe I can trust this group to be direct with me, though. My husband? He doesn’t see why I thought I could trust them in the first place. He stays on safe subjects himself.

Do you see my point? How can I let my guard down? How can I feel secure around them? If I offend them by some careless comment, they are not going to say so. That is not how it works. Those who are in the “out” group are just systematically but covertly cut out. Shunned. You get the “social smile,” but you are persona non grata. Other people will hear what they think of you, but you will not. They’ve done it to their own sister, their own cousin, so I don’t know what made me think I was special.

Of course it bothers me. It bothers me a lot. That’s not the kind of social gathering I really care to have. It bothers my husband, too. Not everything in this world is in our power to change, though. Those who had these gatherings can’t have them any more. It is our place or nothing, and so either we host or the gatherings stop for everybody. Sometimes you have to accept what you can’t change and accept the cards you have, yes. Accepting the situation is sometimes easier said than done, though. Still, it is hosting a gathering which will have a lot of people other than those who might or might not wish they were anywhere else in the world. I can’t let that be my problem. If they want to talk, I’ll talk. If they don’t, there is nothing I can do about that.

You are correct, I don’t understand. I don’t understand exactly what led to all of this but I don’t need to or want to. Likewise I don’t understand why but I do understand that all this has and continues to bother you deeply.

Noting that initially you said 1) that you had apologized, 2) that that the overt “retaliation” has stopped, and 3) that the other parties seemed to have moved on, my previous post was meant to encourage you to do the same.

If you are asking for opinions as to how you can ever trust these people, mine is that you can’t and probably shouldn’t. But you asked how to deal with them? I think some excellent thoughts can be found in the post of gardenswithkids (#30). I would simply add that as with a tapestry it would be futile to keep trying to unravel or undo all this.

Agreeing with you that it is not an one, I pray that God will give you the strength and perseverance to continue along the path that these statements from the last two of your own posts point to and thus bring you some peace:

I can’t let that be my problem.

.

Still, you are right: worrying won’t change anything.

 

[EasterJoy]

You are correct, I don’t understand. I don’t understand exactly what led to all of this but I don’t need to or want to. Likewise I don’t understand why but I do understand that all this has and continues to bother you deeply.

Noting that initially you said 1) that you had apologized, 2) that that the overt “retaliation” has stopped, and 3) that the other parties seemed to have moved on, my previous post was meant to encourage you to do the same.

If you are asking for opinions as to how you can ever trust these people, mine is that you can’t and probably shouldn’t. But you asked how to deal with them? I think some excellent thoughts can be found in the post of gardenswithkids (#30). I would simply add that as with a tapestry it would be futile to keep trying to unravel or undo all this.

Agreeing with you that it is not an one, I pray that God will give you the strength and perseverance to continue along the path that these statements from the last two of your own posts point to and thus bring you some peace:

Thanks. Yes, this thread helps me to accept what the situation is. I need to act according to what I know and not what I wish things were.

Someone taught me once that when a relationship is broken, you can forgive all by yourself, but reconciliation takes both parties and even then you don’t get the old relationship back. You either have a relationship between strangers, because trust isn’t built up, or you get a new one in which the trust is built up gradually, the way relationships have to be built. So I suppose the thing to do is to let go of the old relationship, start over, stay honest about what I see, and see what develops. People change, but trust takes time and real actions to build.