How do you debate with people who claim everything is fake?

[nickybr38]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

 

[Dale_M]

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

Probably not. Some people aren’t interested in honest discussion. Their minds are made up and they don’t want to be confused with facts which contradict those views.

Since the problem lies in their attitude and approach to such discussions, there is little you can do. The only possible route (I can think of) is to get them to fundamentally change, and that will take much time and a strong relationship between you and them.

 

[nickybr38]

Probably not. Some people aren’t interested in honest discussion. Their minds are made up and they don’t want to be confused with facts which contradict those views.

Since the problem lies in their attitude and approach to such discussions, there is little you can do. The only possible route (I can think of) is to get them to fundamentally change, and that will take much time and a strong relationship between you and them.

That’s what I feared and why I normally walk away.

I must say encountering this so much has prompted me to never dismiss someone’s ‘sources’ without being able to back up the dismissal. Normally I hear: That’s FAKE, but no proof to show that it IS fake. It’s very frustrating to deal with and has definitely changed the way I debate with others.

 

[TriciaF]

My mother used to say, “there’s none so deaf as those who don’t want to hear.”

 

[Marocchino]

They are saying it’s fake as a defence mechanism. If they acknowledge that it is real they will have to either change their lives or admit that they are on the path to hell. It is quite a dilemma you put them in. God sends you such people to test your patience and see how much you rely on Him to accomplish conversion. If you pray and make sacrifices for sinners, God will reward you with peace. If you get upset that they won’t listen to you, God will allow you to destroy your own inner peace. I’ve been through it. Have patience my friend. God bless you.

 

[Delaine75]

Pray for them instead of debating with them. Debating with people who already have their minds closed off is absolutely pointless and you’ll never get them to see the truth no matter what evidence you provide. The only truth they know is the one made up in their own heads. Save yourself time and aggravation and simply pray for these people to see the truth.

 

[asia53]

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

Good idea!

My grandpa used to say, “Sometimes, you can’t fight stupid.” Stupid meaning people who aren’t open to reasonable discussion.

 

[Julia_Mae]

How on earth do I respond to this?

I can’t figure out why you are in it. Sounds like you decided to vacation in East Trollania.

 

[edwest2]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

The first thing to know is that on any forum, if you are presenting the truth then others reading the thread might take you at your word, check out your references, etc. My response would be to invite them to provide credible sources that prove you wrong. If they don’t or just want to argue, then leave them alone. But don’t stop telling the truth, and presenting your evidence.

Even if one person is helped, that is of great worth. Remember, there are lurkers on every forum and you may be helping them tell the truth.

May God bless you,
Ed

 

[tabycat]

That’s what I feared and why I normally walk away.

I must say encountering this so much has prompted me to never dismiss someone’s ‘sources’ without being able to back up the dismissal. Normally I hear: That’s FAKE, but no proof to show that it IS fake. It’s very frustrating to deal with and has definitely changed the way I debate with others.

Have you ever asked them for sources that prove that it is fake?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

You could have them tune in to the Links I just put in my most recent thread " God Exists, Says Science," hour two, where Fr. Spitzer says Aristotle faced the same problem over 2,000 years ago. Aristotle said he wouldn’t answer because he felt it beneath his dignity to talk to " Vegetables. " Get it! Aristotle was being very polite. We might think of something a little more mean but what good would that do?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I wouldn’t even waste time debating them. Explain to them once, it is your Christian duty to. If they do not want to listen, then leave.

 

[Bill_7154]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

How do you debate with a person who isn’t capable of ‘reality testing’ (an ego function that enables one to differentiate between external reality and an inner imaginative world and to behave in a manner that exhibits an awareness of accepted norms and customs. Impairment of reality testing is indicative of a disturbance in ego functioning that may lead to psychosis)?

If a person isn’t capable of reality testing ( you point to a pencil and say that’s a pecil, they say it’s a magic marker), rince, repeat…etc…

You state what you believe to be true (assuming you are actually stating reality, as the other person may believe their position to be reality as well… it depends on whether or not they are ‘playing games’ to one extent or another or actually incapable of reality testing). If someone says a human fetus isn’t human, they are either lying to themselves to one extent or another or not in touch with reality. So you state your position and back it up. They state theirs. You recognize they are either incapable or unwilling to accept reality and choose whether or not you want to engage in a conversation with a person who is not going ot acknowledge reality or choose not to engage them. At a certain point I think most people choose to not engage such a person.

Eventually it turns into a kids argument “yes I did” “no you didn’t” “yes I did” “no you didn’t” repeat forever…

God Bless,
Bill

 

[Bill_7154]

Even if one person is helped, that is of great worth. Remember, there are lurkers on every forum and you may be helping them tell the truth.

May God bless you,
Ed

Ed,

This is a really great point, one that I had not thought of and one that can be of significant value.

Thanks and God Bless,
Bill

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Sounds like a Proverbs 26:4 situation.

 

[interestedman]

As a non believer I say why even debate these people?

 

[CopticChristian]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

Nicky,

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has courted further controversy by explicitly calling the Nazi Holocaust of European Jewry a “myth”.

Stop arguing with these people…:banghead:

 

[Gordon_Sims]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

One of the biggest road blocks I’ve encountered when arguing with liberals is facts. The other is reason. I was discussing abortion with someone recently and when I posted links to a pro-life site that had a summary of several studies on abortion that opposed the claims she was making, she said that it was invalid information since it came from a biased site. I then posted the individual links to the studies, one or two of which were from the Guttmacher Institute, and she said that they were still invalid since they’d been cited on a biased, pro-life website. I don’t know how some people get by in the world when they have to constantly readjust their blinders.

 

[Seira]

That’s what I feared and why I normally walk away.

I must say encountering this so much has prompted me to never dismiss someone’s ‘sources’ without being able to back up the dismissal. Normally I hear: That’s FAKE, but no proof to show that it IS fake. It’s very frustrating to deal with and has definitely changed the way I debate with others.

There are people who still think the moon landing was fake. Just pray for them & try not to let it get you down.

 

[pablope]

They say the Crusades were this.
I say it was that.
They say my information was doctored by the Church and thus not the true story.

They say a baby at 12 weeks old isn’t human.
I send them to a link that shows pictures of aborted 10 week old babies. (not my finest moment but in my defense they weren’t really ‘fighting’ fair either)
They say the pictures aren’t real.

Every time I turn around I’m commanded to provide the source of my information and every time I do people dismiss it as fake, or made up, or not real…

How on earth do I respond to this?

My response thus far has been to abandon debates in which people are continually dismissing any ‘evidence’ I present but there must be a way to speak sense to these people… isn’t there?

I was just lassoed to such a debate with a group of anti catholics…that group believed in Alberto Rivera, the black pope, the rapture, every vatican conspiracy…you name it.

I changed tactics. Instead of providing our biblical proof, I instead tried to get them to think. One claimed the to have the word of God…I pointed that what he has is the interpretation…so I asked…why should I believe your interpration over that of a another with a phd in Biblical studies? I asked them to provide proof. The person only provided statements and assertions, which they will usually do, because they cannot provide proof and declare it to be true. He claimed the spirit of God…so I asked him how did he know it is actually from God? What is his proof? I pointed out the example of St. paul in Gal2, v2…where the revelation to Paul was submission. I also pointed out 1john4,v6…so I asked…who did you submit to and who approved what you are saying here?

On another, on confession, instead of citing biblical proof, I asked them to look at Job 42, starting at around v7…and asked them…why did God order the 3 friends to go through Job to be forgiven their offense? I also told them, that they will not find the answer in any commentary or any of their cut and phase posts…they have to use the spirit of God to tell them the answer.

In another, one posted a story about jesuits influencing events and were instrumental in persecution of 70000 or so “christians”. Well, the date of the story was 1527…so I asked, when were the jesuits established? In 1534…so I asked…how could the jesuits influence an event when they were not even founded yet? They kept changing the subject and refused to acknowledge the falsity of the story. One even posted a story that the Jesuits were founded by Paul III. So I asked, who founded the Jesuits? When he replied Ignatius of Loyola…I called him on his story, of why his post listed Paul III, and asked if he would acknowledge the error in the story? I never got a response back.

The thing is…be smart and witty, ask questions to make them think…keep them on the defensive by citing facts…discredit their story…make them think or at least try to instill doubts, even though, they may not admit it.