How do you defend against the Old Testament?

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People say the Lord condoned capital punishment by quoting these and others:
  • Now the man who acts presumptuously and will not heed the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall put away the evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
  • “And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)
  • For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)
  • ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
  • ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 21:9)
  • If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; (Deuteronomy 13)
The 10 commandments say Thou Shall Not kill. Then they say Jesus said that the old law must be adheard to…

What do I say?
 
2265
Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

2266
The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and the duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

2267
** Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.**
Code: 
**If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.**

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm—without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself—the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."68
Hope that helps

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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jay29:
The 10 commandments say Thou Shall Not kill. Then they say Jesus said that the old law must be adheard to…
What do I say?
Click to expand...
Actually the Commandments refer to the wrongful taking of life or murder, not legitimate killing for say protection. However the Words of Jesus place a far more restrictive meaning on it. We certainly must turn the other cheek, but not forever. If we look at Scripture Mt 18:
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jay29:
15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Click to expand...
As the CCC tells us the taking of life should only be condoned in an extreme circumstance, when there are no other reasonable means of protection.
 
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jay29:
People say the Lord condoned capital punishment by quoting these and others:
  • Now the man who acts presumptuously and will not heed the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall put away the evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
  • “And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)
  • For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)
  • ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)
  • ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 21:9)
  • If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; (Deuteronomy 13)
The 10 commandments say Thou Shall Not kill. Then they say Jesus said that the old law must be adheard to…

What do I say?
Click to expand...
Ask for some clarification on these issues as well-

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates
a pleasing odour for the Lord Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbours.
They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense!

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

**e) **I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester
blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town
together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep
with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

:whacky: * :rotfl: *

The point being these are rules for the time and for the old covenant. Jesus made a new covenant with his people.
Traditionally we have understood that the OT Law contains elements that are indicative of God’s unchanging character, and therefore do not pass away with the coming of the Messiah. Indeed the NT reiterates their significance. (eg 10 commandments). There are elements in the Levitical law that Jesus fulfills, and therefore we have no further need of them (the sacrifical system), and there are elements that are distinctive to the society of Israel at the time, that may contain some wisdom for us, but are not applicable in the society in which we live, such as the kinds of things I referenced above. If we only had the OT to go on for developing a view of the homosexual lifestyle viz a viz appropriatness for Christians, we would have theological difficulties sustaining prohibition.
 
Still, I must say that Romans 13 does say:

1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ordinance of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment.

3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same:

4 for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.​

The question then becomes is Paul using the word “sword” symbolically, or deliberately referencing the sword that we know is a killing device and/or a deterrent. (Not too many other uses for a sword, come to think of it. Its not like a “whip” or “flog” that is only to hurt.

No easy answer here. For my own personal view, the death penalty should be a last resort for repeat offenders who kill others.
 
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