How do you define the term 'occult'?

[Lokabrenna]

I’ve seen a bunch of definitions floating around in recent threads, and it seems everyone has different ideas as to what this term means, guess I’m just curious to see how many come up here.

 

[prodigalson2011]

By strict definition, it means “hidden from view,” but it generally refers to any sort of practical magic; astrology, divination, reiki, ritual magick, etc. Pretty much any esoteric practice that involves the “hidden knowledge” and use of supernatural powers and agencies.

For a Catholic, it should always be considered dangerous.

 

[NonServiam]

For a Catholic, it should always be considered dangerous.

Speaking as someone who’s spent enough time reading up on, researching, and even practicing some of these inane “occult” ideas, I can tell you that they are about as “dangerous” as making popcorn.

I know the folks around these forums like to believe in magic and all that, but there’s actually no such thing. This “occult” and “New Age” nonsense is nothing more than a bunch of angsty teens and overgrown children in adult bodies wanting to pretend that they have spooky powers by dressing up like Harry Potter, lighting a bunch of candles, and doing the most unintentionally funny “rituals” you’ve ever seen in your life.

These “powers” work just as well as asking your imaginary friend to bring you a beer from the fridge across the room: that is to say, they don’t “work” at all because they’re not real.

I know it’s fun to believe in a universe of magic, to believe that there’s some kind of cosmic struggle and that there’s a “devil” out there who has a bunch of dark servants running around doing his bidding, but that’s just a fantasy. These supposed “servants” of the dark lord are, in actuality, a bunch of snot-nosed, pimply, overweight comicbook-readers who probably would need supernatural aid to muster up the courage to talk to a human female.

 

[prodigalson2011]

Speaking as someone who’s spent enough time reading up on, researching, and even practicing some of these inane “occult” ideas, I can tell you that they are about as “dangerous” as making popcorn.

I know the folks around these forums like to believe in magic and all that, but there’s actually no such thing. This “occult” and “New Age” nonsense is nothing more than a bunch of angsty teens and overgrown children in adult bodies wanting to pretend that they have spooky powers by dressing up like Harry Potter, lighting a bunch of candles, and doing the most unintentionally funny “rituals” you’ve ever seen in your life.

These “powers” work just as well as asking your imaginary friend to bring you a beer from the fridge across the room: that is to say, they don’t “work” at all because they’re not real.

I know it’s fun to believe in a universe of magic, to believe that there’s some kind of cosmic struggle and that there’s a “devil” out there who has a bunch of dark servants running around doing his bidding, but that’s just a fantasy. These supposed “servants” of the dark lord are, in actuality, a bunch of snot-nosed, pimply, overweight comicbook-readers who probably would need supernatural aid to muster up the courage to talk to a human female.

Sorry, friend. I guarantee you I’ve done as much reading and researching as you have. You may have done some amateurish noodling. I did the same when I was younger, and nothing serious happened. However, I knew a serious Thelemite and I’ve seen him get results. You wouldn’t believe me if I told you some of what I saw, so I won’t bother. I don’t expect to convince you, but I know what I’ve seen. There’s a big difference between the curious experimenter and the serious practicioner.

Regardless, the detrimental effects of most occult activity (i.e. lightweight “New Age” practices) aren’t anything spectacular. I suppose you expect bolts of lightning, spinning heads, and flying silverware. It’s much more subtle, and if you didn’t know better, you’d probably chalk it up to bad luck or coincidence. But when you’ve been around enough of it, you see that it consistently causes spiritual damage. But I’m sure I’m probably talking to a wall on this issue, so… deny what you will. I’ve no need to prove it to anyone.

 

[prodigalson2011]

This “occult” and “New Age” nonsense is nothing more than a bunch of angsty teens and overgrown children in adult bodies wanting to pretend that they have spooky powers by dressing up like Harry Potter, lighting a bunch of candles, and doing the most unintentionally funny “rituals” you’ve ever seen in your life.
.

I also meant to clarify, what you are referring to is a very diluted, “Dungeons and Dragons” form of the occult.

How familiar are you with organizations like the Temple of Thelema and Ordo Templi Orientis? Even LaVeyan Satanism? These are very deeply philosophical occult systems that are not open to mere “angsty teen witches.” In fact, I can tell you they rather despise them.

 

[NonServiam]

You may have done some amateurish noodling.

You have no idea how much practice I’ve done.

However, I knew a serious Thelemite and I’ve seen him get results. You wouldn’t believe me if I told you some of what I saw, so I won’t bother. I don’t expect to convince you, but I know what I’ve seen. There’s a big difference between the curious experimenter and the serious practicioner.

The “big difference” is that some folks actually talk themselves into thinking that spooky coincidences are caused by prancing around in a circle and doing the Western ceremonial magick equivalent of doing a raindance.

I suppose you expect bolts of lightning, spinning heads, and flying silverware.

No. I expect exactly what I see: groups of Star Treck-watching dorks who think that doing silly rituals made up by turn-of-the-century Freemasons can “influence probabilty” in oh-so-spooky and mysterious ways. And then when coincidences happen – because, statistically speaking, coincidences are bound to happen – they start buying into the ridiculous idea that they have “magical powers.” The whole thing is utterly laughable.

It’s much more subtle, and if you didn’t know better, you’d probably chalk it up to bad luck or coincidence.

Exactly my point: this “magick” nonsense is totally indistinguishable from coincidence.

How familiar are you with organizations like the Temple of Thelema and Ordo Templi Orientis?

Very familiar. Both groups are swimming with the kinds of nutso dorks I’ve been talking about. Naturally, there are exceptions, but by and large, such groups tend to attract pitiful, powerless people who need to play at dressing up like wizards to make themselves feel better.

These are very deeply philosophical occult systems

The system itself may be rather deep and complicated, but from what I’ve seen, the majority of people attracted to such systems don’t really understand them – not in any intricate depth.

Now look, I know it’s fun believing that there are people who can use their “deep occult knowledge” to make “subtle changes” occur in probability thanks to the awesome power of funny gestures and poorly-pronounced Hebrew and Greek phrases. But the fact of the matter is that nobody has any sort of “powers” like that. Obviously, you can’t “prove” it to me because it’s impossible to prove – or even remotely come close to demonstrating – something that isn’t real.

As I said, it’s about as “dangerous” as making popcorn, and it’s as “spiritually damaging” as running a Harry Potter roleplaying game after school. It’s also really incredibly silly.

 

[NonServiam]

groups of Star Treck-watching dorks

See that? I’m so cool that I didn’t even realize it’s spelled Star Trek.

 

[Sonic]

I’ve seen a bunch of definitions floating around in recent threads, and it seems everyone has different ideas as to what this term means, guess I’m just curious to see how many come up here.

Most books on the subject will give definitions with the same meaning, but with slightly different wording. The only difference may be that some sources will go on to describe “Occult” practices indifferently, positively, or negatively.

Old Catholic Encyclopedia on Occult Art (or magic):

In a restricted sense magic is understood to be an interference with the usual course of physical nature by apparently inadequate means (recitation of formularies, gestures, mixing of incongruous elements, and other mysterious actions), the knowledge of which is obtained through secret communication with the force underlying the universe (God, the Devil, the soul of the world, etc.); it is the attempt to work miracles not by the power of God, gratuitously communicated to man, but by the use of hidden forces beyond man’s control. Its advocates, despairing to move the Deity by supplication, seek the desired result by evoking powers ordinarily reserved to the Deity. It is a corruption of religion, not a preliminary stage of it as Rationalists maintain, and it appears as an accompaniment of decadent rather than of rising civilization…

…Catholic theology defines magic as the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine, and condemns it and any attempt at it as a grievous sin against the virtue of religion, because all magical performances, if undertaken seriously, are based on the expectation of interference by demons or lost souls. Even if undertaken out of curiosity the performance of a magical ceremony is sinful as it either proves a lack of faith or is a vain superstition. The Catholic Church admits in principle the possibility of interference in the course of nature by spirits other than God, whether good or evil, but never without God’s permission. As to the frequency of such interference especially by malignant agencies at the request of man, she observes the utmost reserve.

source: oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Occult_Art%2C_Occultism

From the Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology 5th Ed. article on Magic…

It commonly refers to the ability to cause change to occur by supernatural or mysterious powers and abilities. In the twentieth century, magic has been more stringently defined as the ability to create change by an act of the will and the use of the cosmic power believed to underpin physical existence.

From the Gale Encyclopedia of the Unusual and Unexplained article on Magick…

Magick, spelled with a “k,” is the use of rituals, chants, ceremonies, and affirmations designed to give the individual control of the supernatural forces that manipulate the universe.

Notice, that in all the definitions listed above (secular and religious), there is no prerequisite that such activities are supposed to work in order to fall under the definition of Occult Art or Magic.