How do you explain Eastern Catholicism to Roman Catholics

[ConstantineTG]

Okay, lets admit it, not every Roman Catholic out there is aware of Eastern Catholicism.

This morning after Divine Liturgy, I went over to the 7-11 one block from the parish. The person behind the counter is a compatriot (Filipino) who is a recent immigrant, so she decided to chat me up. She asked where I lived and I said in the next city, so she was curious what I was doing there. I told her I just gone to church (going to church and Mass is the same word in Filipino). She asked if I was Christian so realizing it can be that loaded Protestant question, I clarified I am Catholic, and so she was. I pointed to her where the Catholic church was which was like 300 meters from the store and I proceeded to explain that it was Eastern Catholic and not Roman Catholic. I told her she should go there sometime but she scoffed at the idea as if I was inviting her to a non-Catholic worship service (typical Filipino response to prosleytizing). Frankly I felt like a Protestant this morning

Can’t blame her, over a year ago I was in the same boat. Eastern Catholicism is virtually unheard of in the Philippines, and only in the last decade has Orthodoxy even established a mission parish in the country. So it got me wondering how to explain to people I meet what Eastern Catholicism is in quick conversations? I mean, nothing like lets sit down for an hour and let me explain the 2000 year history of the Church. I wanted to start babbling stuff like, “no wait, we love Mother Mary and we love the Pope too!”

 

[Rolltide]

If you’re going to respond fast, you’ll lose a bit of technical precision, but that’s probably ok in a circumstance like this. I’d simply say something like, “Most Catholics are not aware that many years ago, some of the Orthodox that broke off from the Catholic Church decided to come back. They are now FULLY CATHOLIC and in union with the pope, but they’re allowed to keep their individual rites and traditions. These are called “Eastern Catholic” Churches, but they are just as Catholic as our branch of the Catholic Church. It’s just that there are so few of them, that not many Catholics know they exist or that their Masses are just as legitimate to attend as your usual Mass. It’s just another form, like the old Latin Mass.”

Yes, I realize I’ve grossly simplified here, not using terms like “divine liturgy”, neglecting the Maronites, who were never out of communion with the church, and using “Latin Mass” which is imprecise, but if you’ve only got 15 seconds, this might be your best response.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Yes, well I think that the best thing to say would be to simply let the person know that this (Eastern Catholic) church is CATHOLIC church and why don’t you come to experience it?

I once did that with someone who asked a similar question and after the Liturgy, they said they loved it, how wonderful - and then walked off without any further ado.

No need to go into too much church history . . .

They often won’t believe it until they see it and hear the pope’s name commemorated etc.

Also, as an Eastern Catholic, I would maintain the Orthodox Churches are fully Catholic (i.e. the Eucharistic model of the whole of the Church is present in the part) have valid Sacraments, Apostolic lineage etc. but they are not in communion with Rome. Is this not how Rome itself views the Orthodox Church - as being the True Church, but in separation from Rome?

And that that separation is also the fault of the RC Church . . .

However, there will be Roman Catholics who will remain intransigent, will say that Eastern CAtholics are not “fully Catholic” and that the Papacy as we have it today was in place already in the time of St Paul or thereabouts.

For them, the Latin Rite is just as integral a component of their faith as the faith itself.

Alex

 

[ConstantineTG]

Alex, I do notice that. I know a priest who’s very knowledgeable, educated, very wise man. But he doesn’t think so highly of the Orthodox. Maybe because there’s a Ukrainian Orthodox parish right besides his parish? I don’t know. But the one time he mentioned about the Orthodox, it wasn’t even at the level that I would regard the Orthodox.

On the other hand, the subdeacon at the UGCC parish I attend has no qualms about attending Orthodox services. He knows the boundary on Communion and he would never cross that, but otherwise wouldn’t think twice about going to the Orthodox parish near where he lives for Vespers or even Divine Liturgy.

Back to my problem, I know its a bit complicated because most Filipinos are not well Catechized especially with Church history and especially the sui juris Churches. To most of us, if you’re Christian and you’re not Roman Catholic, then you’re a Protestant. And the way I was dismissed is the same way I would have dismissed a proselytizing Protestant. That is why I felt bad afterward. I always believed that Eastern Catholicism has something to offer to Filipinos. I know many are falling away from the Catholic Faith and perhaps the perspective of the Eastern Church will help alleviate the doubts. I have learned a lot of the many threads I’ve started here and I believe the answers I received will also be well received by other Filipinos. Right now there is an Antiochian Orthodox parish that is established in the Philippines and I’ve been in contact with one of the deacons whom I’ve come across online. Hopefully they can help enlighten those who are falling away and being pulled into the Evangelical and Pentecostal denominations.

 

[Cecilianus]

They often won’t believe it until they see it and hear the pope’s name commemorated etc.

And some people won’t believe it even then.

Also, as an Eastern Catholic, I would maintain the Orthodox Churches are fully Catholic (i.e. the Eucharistic model of the whole of the Church is present in the part) have valid Sacraments, Apostolic lineage etc. but they are not in communion with Rome. Is this not how Rome itself views the Orthodox Church - as being the True Church, but in separation from Rome?

But wounded by schism and whatever heresies the Orthodox may hold or say they hold, which means however close they are, they’re not fully there until they come back into union with the Rock upon which the True Church is built.

However, there will be Roman Catholics who will remain intransigent, will say that Eastern Catholics are not “fully Catholic” and that the Papacy as we have it today was in place already in the time of St Paul or thereabouts.

The Papacy as we have it today was in place since the time of St. Paul. And we Eastern Catholics are fully Catholic.

For them, the Latin Rite is just as integral a component of their faith as the faith itself.

Alex

It is just as integral as the Faith itself - in fact, for them it IS the Faith. So is the Byzantine Rite - for us, it IS the Faith. There’s nothing wrong with this; we just need to be aware that the Church breathes with both lungs, and every individual’s peculiar place and charism in the universal Church may not be somebody else’s.

 

[ConstantineTG]

For the first time this week I told a family member that I am attending an Eastern Catholic parish. I am apprehensive because I know they might think I’m becoming Protestant. Indeed my sister’s first reaction was that I might be become like our cousin who lives in the same area as me. My cousin is an Evangelical. Then I proceeded to tell her that I go to a Catholic parish, only that its not Roman Catholic but Greek Catholic. I didn’t bother telling her it was UGCC because hearing the “Ukrainian” will just complicate matters even more. Although being in the US herself, I guess she’s come across some Orthodox and replied by asking about Christmas being on a different date. I told her thats not Catholic but Orthodox and its because they use the Julian Calendar. Catholics use the Gregorian Calendar.

Whew. Now, I’m going to tell me extremely conservative, extremely devout Roman Catholic mom

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

For the first time this week I told a family member that I am attending an Eastern Catholic parish. I am apprehensive because I know they might think I’m becoming Protestant. Indeed my sister’s first reaction was that I might be become like our cousin who lives in the same area as me. My cousin is an Evangelical. Then I proceeded to tell her that I go to a Catholic parish, only that its not Roman Catholic but Greek Catholic. I didn’t bother telling her it was UGCC because hearing the “Ukrainian” will just complicate matters even more. Although being in the US herself, I guess she’s come across some Orthodox and replied by asking about Christmas being on a different date. I told her thats not Catholic but Orthodox and its because they use the Julian Calendar. Catholics use the Gregorian Calendar.

Whew. Now, I’m going to tell me extremely conservative, extremely devout Roman Catholic mom

Some Eastern Catholics are still on the Julian Calendar. And many Orthodox are on a Revised Julian Calendar which synchronizes Christmas with the Western date.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Some Eastern Catholics are still on the Julian Calendar. And many Orthodox are on a Revised Julian Calendar which synchronizes Christmas with the Western date.

Good to know. I was suspecting that but as the point of this thread is, I want to make explanations short and meaningful

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Good to know. I was suspecting that but as the point of this thread is, I want to make explanations short and meaningful

I tell people about my Melkite Faith…“We’re Catholic, but we don’t do Statues, instead we have Icons, we sing everything, no instruments, and the Virgin Mary is called the Theotokos in our Tradition. Also, we’re Catholic in the sense that we are IN COMMUNION WITH ROME, but we still go our own way in most things. We even follow Orthodox tradition. In fact, we have the Best Of Both Worlds.”

 

[yaHalyna]

If you’re going to respond fast, you’ll lose a bit of technical precision, but that’s probably ok in a circumstance like this. I’d simply say something like, “Most Catholics are not aware that many years ago, some of the Orthodox that broke off from the Catholic Church decided to come back. They are now FULLY CATHOLIC and in union with the pope, but they’re allowed to keep their individual rites and traditions. These are called “Eastern Catholic” Churches, but they are just as Catholic as our branch of the Catholic Church. It’s just that there are so few of them, that not many Catholics know they exist or that their Masses are just as legitimate to attend as your usual Mass. It’s just another form, like the old Latin Mass.”

Yes, I realize I’ve grossly simplified here, not using terms like “divine liturgy”, neglecting the Maronites, who were never out of communion with the church, and using “Latin Mass” which is imprecise, but if you’ve only got 15 seconds, this might be your best response.

I do not think this is an accurate statement: “Most Catholics are not aware that many years ago, some of the Orthodox that broke off from the Catholic Church decided to come back.” We never left the Catholic Church. It is that some did not agree with the Catholic church & broke away to become Orthodox, but Eastern Rite Catholics did not leave & come back.

Being EC I’m used to such questions. It might not be clear but I usually say: I am Catholic, there are all different types of Catholics you know, not just Roman, and that’s what makes the Catholic church really Universal.

 

[mardukm]

We believe that the Pope is the head bishop of the Church as a whole, and we believe in the same things you do, but we do and teach things differently.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[TimothyH]

Our parochial vicar, who is from India, explained that the Catholic Church has twenty one (or twenty two?) “Rites”, of which the western or Roman Catholic rite is the largest, and that each rite has a richness all its own. He mentioned how rich the music and devotion to Mary is in the eastern rites.

I heard several comments like “Wow, that’s so interesting. I never knew that!” and such.

I thought that was a good basic explanation for people who know nothing about the Orthodox Churches, entirely usable for a fifteen second elevator pitch at the convenience store.

-Tim-

 

[ConstantineTG]

We believe that the Pope is the head bishop of the Church as a whole, and we believe in the same things you do, but we do and teach things differently.

Blessings,
Marduk

This is good. But I always had to start with, “I’m not going to a Protestant church…”
Its really the source of my frustration on this matter, that people think its a Protestant, or otherwise non-Catholic faith

 

[ConstantineTG]

Our parochial vicar, who is from India, explained that the Catholic Church has twenty one (or twenty two?) “Rites”, of which the western or Roman Catholic rite is the largest, and that each rite has a richness all its own. He mentioned how rich the music and devotion to Mary is in the eastern rites.

I heard several comments like “Wow, that’s so interesting. I never knew that!” and such.

I thought that was a good basic explanation for people who know nothing about the Orthodox Churches, entirely usable for a fifteen second elevator pitch at the convenience store.

-Tim-

The problem many Roman Catholics who never were aware of the Eastern Churches think that if you’re not Roman Catholic, you’re a Protestant

 

[Rolltide]

I do not think this is an accurate statement: “Most Catholics are not aware that many years ago, some of the Orthodox that broke off from the Catholic Church decided to come back.” We never left the Catholic Church. It is that some did not agree with the Catholic church & broke away to become Orthodox, but Eastern Rite Catholics did not leave & come back.

Being EC I’m used to such questions. It might not be clear but I usually say: I am Catholic, there are all different types of Catholics you know, not just Roman, and that’s what makes the Catholic church really Universal.

It was my understanding that the only two branches of Eastern Catholicism that were always in union with Rome were the Maronites and Italo-Albanians, and that the other groups were groups of Orthodox that joined with Rome. I even have a list with dates for unification somewhere…

 

[5Loaves]

For the first time this week I told a family member that I am attending an Eastern Catholic parish…
Indeed my sister’s first reaction was that I might be become like our cousin who lives in the same area as me… Although being in the US herself, I guess she’s come across some Orthodox and replied by asking about Christmas being on a different date. I told her thats not Catholic but Orthodox and its because they use the Julian Calendar. Catholics use the Gregorian Calendar.

Whew. Now, I’m going to tell me extremely conservative, extremely devout Roman Catholic mom

You might want to suggest to your sister in the US that she record and watch the EWTN series Light of the East showing on Sunday nights/mornings 12:30AM PDT, 03:30AM EST. If your mother lives in the US she can do the same. For other locations check the monthly grids This program is intended as an outreach to Latin Catholics such as your mother and sister. and other unfamiliar with Byzantine and other ECs/OCs.

You can also recommend they listen to Fr Tom Loya’s radio program Light Of The East since it also is** an outreach to Latin Catholics, among other things. **

If they see that you have grown closer to Christ God by exploring the sacramental liturgical life of the UGCC then hopefully they will be comforted by that, even if it is unfamiliar to them.

FYI my Catholic Church is on the Revised Julian Calendar, which is what the local OCA uses.

 

[5Loaves]

ConstantineTG You can also look at Fr. Loya’s “2 minutes poor man’s power point” about the Eastern Churches in the first minutes of his youtubeTheology of the Body and Marriage Prep. Pt. 1 by Fr. Loya and see if this might make any sense to your family. They might find the materials on EasternChristianMedia.com helpful also.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Not just with my family, but right now I guess getting more into Eastern Christianity, I feel the fire inside me that I want to share what I discovered with other Roman Catholics. So far my offers of coming with me to Divine Liturgy hasn’t bore fruit yet. Perhaps tomorrow, weather permitting, I will discuss this with our subdeacon and maybe he can advise me as well.

 

[BrotherPaulMary]

And that that separation is also the fault of the RC Church . . .

Thats a rather out of place claim in a thread like this. Not to mention the fact that it is inaacurate. Blame in this case gets shared around quite amply to lots of people in authorities in those days, not just the RC Church…

 

[Ghosty]

In my area many people are familiar with the Eastern Orthodox, so I just say “we’re like the Greek Orthodox, but with the Pope.” That suffices as a quick explaination usually, but I can imagine it would be much complicated when factoring in the Filipino element.

With so much Filipino identity being bound up with a very specific (even more so than just “general Latin”) idea of Catholicism, I imagine that conveying these differences would be quite difficult indeed!

Peace and God bless!