How do you explain Mormons paying tithing before important obligations?

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How do you explain Mormons paying tithing before important obligations?

Is it expected of Mormons not to comply with their obligations to their children, friends, debtors and even themselves to pay their tithing?

I spent most of the day today being a listener to someone who is 70 years old and was just informed last week that his prostate cancer is back. A Mormon who owes him almost $10,000 received $17,000 from Social Security yesterday and did not pay him yet assured to pay the tithing of $1,700.

He is very upset and I really hope that he does not suffer a heart attack as he is taking this very serious. The matter has been made worst as the Mormon promised to pay as soon as the expected check arrived and the man delayed his usual one month vacation abroad for a month waiting for the payment. The man will be departing for his vacation next week and feels used and humiliated and abused and disrespected.

I told him that I would ask the question to Mormons here to see if possibly someone can explain how is it that Mormons are expected to neglect their obligations whatever they may be to pay the tithing. Is this what is expected of all Mormons? How about if a person receives assistance from the government and family members, are they expected to give ten percent of this money?

Would the following verse have any meaning here?

Matthew 5:

23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

Thank you for your time,

Abba

P.s. I just found this thread on on Mormon tithing:

exmormon.org/mormon/mormon274.htm They don’t sound very happy.
 
I know that the LDS church (like the Catholic Church) teaches its members to do their utmost to pay their honest debts. I don’t know how the current leadership would answer the question of “if I have only so much money available, should I pay my honest debts or pay my tithing?”.

Does any LDS here know of an authoritative statement on this subject?
 
I know a lot of LDS people and they always pay tithing first, even when money is extremely tight before they pay anybody or anything else. I’ve always wondered about this as well. A friend of mine was not even sure how he was going to pay his bills, but paid the tithing first.
 
Sunflake9 said:
I know a lot of LDS people and they always pay tithing first, even when money is extremely tight before they pay anybody or anything else. I’ve always wondered about this as well. A friend of mine was not even sure how he was going to pay his bills, but paid the tithing first.
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If this is true, and also true with the catholic church, I have no need to continue to seek.
 
If this is true, and also true with the catholic church, I have no need to continue to seek.
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This is absolutely NOT true in regards to the Catholic Church. The Church does not want people to forgo rent, food, repayment of debt, etc. in order to offer a tithe. The Mormon Church, which is a business, requires tithing before anything else. The Catholic Church does not require you to offer up a penny. You should, and most people usually throw a few dollars into the collection every week, but the Church understands that people have obligations outside the Church that must be taken care of, and if you’re giving all your money over to the Church, you cannot take care of your kids, your home, yourself, etc. All of that is important, and the Church recognizes that.
 
IHeartAquinas said:
This is absolutely NOT true in regards to the Catholic Church. The Church does not want people to forgo rent, food, repayment of debt, etc. in order to offer a tithe. The Mormon Church, which is a business, requires tithing before anything else. The Catholic Church does not require you to offer up a penny. You should, and most people usually throw a few dollars into the collection every week, but the Church understands that people have obligations outside the Church that must be taken care of, and if you’re giving all your money over to the Church, you cannot take care of your kids, your home, yourself, etc. All of that is important, and the Church recognizes that.
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I offer time, talent and money. Each and every week since I signed on here as a seeker.
I have been very, very aggressive in helping the local parish in ways I can.
Fortunate to be able to do all these.
I would not want to continue on if there was a person who believed, and was unable to pay for basic human needs yet demanded to give.
I am not a registered member as it is impossible to do now. Yet, I do understand and know the time, talent and money offerings.
If anyone was rejected because they had to decide about say, baby formula or diapers or the gas bill, or something very essential…
That would be a great way to end this now. But, I think you must be right. At least I have hope you are. I have no evidence, and this topic surprised me.
Why would God want to have this senario? Does he need money to contiune to be relevant?
 
IHeartAquinas said:
This is absolutely NOT true in regards to the Catholic Church. The Church does not want people to forgo rent, food, repayment of debt, etc. in order to offer a tithe. The Mormon Church, which is a business, requires tithing before anything else. The Catholic Church does not require you to offer up a penny. You should, and most people usually throw a few dollars into the collection every week, but the Church understands that people have obligations outside the Church that must be taken care of, and if you’re giving all your money over to the Church, you cannot take care of your kids, your home, yourself, etc. All of that is important, and the Church recognizes that.
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What is true about the LDS church is this:

First, pay tithing. The promise is that if you have the faith to do this, you will be able to do everything else, and receive blessings…"windows of heaven’ opening and all that. I can testify that this works, actually.

In reality, what we are told to so is: first, pay tithing. Then we are told to pay our bills. The idea is, if you pay your tithing, you WILL be able to pay your bills.

Now as to the friend of the OP…there is always more than one side to any story. While it is unfortunate that the cancer is back, what was the agreement regarding the loan? If the Mormon had promised to pay that ten grand back out of the Social Security payment, then of course the Mormon is completely at fault if he doesn’t keep his promise. If the payback agreement was something else, like regular payments or in some other way, then it is, quite frankly, none of the OP’s business what sort of money the Mormon got, when, or how…and CERTAINLY it is none of his business whether the Mormon decided to pay tithing first!

As well, since this Social Security payment was given YESTERDAY, it’s a bit soon for someone to complain that he wasn’t paid back yet.

Back to church policy: we are asked to have faith, and pay tithing. I know from personal experience, having had my own husband deal with extremely poor health before he contracted the throat cancer that killed him, that we were asked to pay tithing. We had lost his income. I couldn’t work because I had five kids and was taking care of HIM.

…but we paid tithing.

And the church paid those bills we couldn’t, like the mortgage, utility bills and food, and it did this for us for nearly two years. Trust me, our tithing didn’t come close to covering those expenses.

I strongly suggest that, before you unilaterally condemn the church…and this specific Mormon…for what happened here, you get the rest of the story.

AND you might want to wait a little longer than a day before you and your friend decide that the Mormon is an evil deadbeat.
 
God doesn’t want that scenario. The Catholic Church only asks what you can give. They do not demand that you give X amount. They say “give what you can.” If that is zero, then it is graciously accepted.

Joseph Smith, however, having once defrauded people with a failed bank, turned his cult into a business. Joseph Smith wants people to give X amount of their paycheck. But Joe is not God, and God did not grant the deposit of faith with the Mormons. He gave us Catholics the full deposit of faith, and having that, we do not ask more from you than what you can give. And talent is always welcome, regardless. 👍
 
IHeartAquinas said:
God doesn’t want that scenario. The Catholic Church only asks what you can give. They do not demand that you give X amount. They say “give what you can.” If that is zero, then it is graciously accepted.

Joseph Smith, however, having once defrauded people with a failed bank, turned his cult into a business. Joseph Smith wants people to give X amount of their paycheck. But Joe is not God, and God did not grant the deposit of faith with the Mormons. He gave us Catholics the full deposit of faith, and having that, we do not ask more from you than what you can give. And talent is always welcome, regardless. 👍
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Up to you, of course, but Jesus Christ Himself praised the widow who contributed her ‘mite,’ which represented almost all she owned…and He also criticized the Pharisees regarding tithing: Matt. 23:23 23 *Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment,fmercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. *

Please note; He was not happy with the Pharisees. He told them to pay attention to judgment, mercy and faith, but to do this IN ADDITION TO, not INSTEAD OF, paying tithing.

So to do we believe this. tithing is only the beginning…and it’s only a tenth. Everybody can afford a tenth.
 
dianaiad,

Why do you think that you have the freedom to attack, insult and offend the posters here?
 
strawberryjam, what a Catholic gives, how much money, time or other resources, is entirely up to the individual. No one is checking on us to make sure we’re giving the “right” amount. When deciding how much to donate in the form of cash, prudent, is the word to keep in mind.
 
IHeartAquinas said:
God doesn’t want that scenario. The Catholic Church only asks what you can give. They do not demand that you give X amount. They say “give what you can.” If that is zero, then it is graciously accepted.

Joseph Smith, however, having once defrauded people with a failed bank, turned his cult into a business. Joseph Smith wants people to give X amount of their paycheck. But Joe is not God, and God did not grant the deposit of faith with the Mormons. He gave us Catholics the full deposit of faith, and having that, we do not ask more from you than what you can give. And talent is always welcome, regardless. 👍
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Time, talent and money. If you have any of them, you should reflect that. IMHO

I am glad to hear that I have not wasted time seeking the catholic church.
 
RebeccaJ said:
strawberryjam, what a Catholic gives, how much money, time or other resources, is entirely up to the individual. No one is checking on us to make sure we’re giving the “right” amount. Prudent, is the word to keep in mind.
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I like using prudence in making these determinations,
Thinking there will be a pay off for not paying for the heat in the dead of winter because God needs it more than you is baffling. Maybe the mormon god is more in need than the catholic one. To allow one of his children to have to even struggle with that choice in an already bad situation to begin with.
I assume there are no homeless Mormons to be found based on this thread. I could be jumping to conclusions of course.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I like using prudence in making these determinations,
Thinking there will be a pay off for not paying for the heat in the dead of winter because God needs it more than you is baffling. Maybe the mormon god is more in need than the catholic one. To allow one of his children to have to even struggle with that choice in an already bad situation to begin with.
I assume there are no homeless Mormons to be found based on this thread. I could be jumping to conclusions of course.
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The LDS church provides a safety net for its members. So while a Mormon member may give away the money they would have used to buy food that week, they can go to their bishop and ask for help.

Which kind of negates their concept of “widows mite”. That is a parable of faith, not of giving while knowing that you have a backup plan.
 
RebeccaJ said:
The LDS church provides a safety net for its members. So while a Mormon member may give away the money they would have used to buy food that week, they can go to their bishop and ask for help.

Which kind of negates their concept of “widows mite”. That is a parable of faith, not of giving while knowing that you have a backup plan.
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Is this a dogma of belief or membership requirements?
I agree with the blatant logical fallacy presented here by holding such a position.
 
Abba said:
dianaiad,

Why do you think that you have the freedom to attack, insult and offend the posters here?
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I don’t think so…

And I have not done so, actually-certainly I haven’t done so on this thread.

…unless you have a very different, and double…standard for insults than I do?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Is this a dogma of belief or membership requirements?
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The LDS church teaching is that a 10% tithing is required to be a member “in good standing”. It is required to get into their temples for marriage sealings, and other ordinances that they perform there.

There is a long running observation that calls this “fire insurance”, as in, you’d better be a member in good standing at the second coming of Christ, or you’ll burn. (LDS of course hold a belief of millennialism, similar to that of Evangelical Protestants.)
 
StrawberryJam said:
I am glad to hear that I have not wasted time seeking the catholic church.
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Hello StrawberryJam, 🙂

No, you are not wasting your time seeking in the Catholic Church. May God continue to bless you and guide you.
I just want to add a little more information to the OP. The man has been owed for five years approximately $7,000 for a loan he took to help the Mormon pay some backed up mortgage payment and so the person would not loose her house (who is a relative of the man that converted to Mormonism). The payments of the loan was never paid so the man paid the loan to save his credit. Recently, on account that the social security check would be arriving he lent an addition $3,000 to help the person out to pay for basic necessities.

This man was so noble and kind that he told the Mormon to only pay him $2500 when her $17,000 check arrives and the rest to pay $100 per month. Why he is sooooo upset is that he did not get the $2500 after waiting for it, period, and he is of course well justified. But, it really bothers him that she paid tithing of, it was actually more than $1,700 (I just got off the phone with him…he is having a difficult time with this and is upset) she paid $2,300 because she owed tithing.

Furthermore, it is not true that the mormon church takes care of people. Mormons loose their homes, children go hungry, etc… They have a limit on the food they offer families that are going thru a difficult economic situation. They do help but, I have not seen them help more than what they have received. Perhaps, someplace else they do but not around where I live. They may also pay a mortgage payment but that’s about it.

This Mormon’s salary averaged for many years $300,000 and she paid her tithing not only on her salary but on every money she received, gifts, inheritance, anything adn everything. Now, she does not have anything as she is ill and cannot work and will probably loose her house.

Well, it all looks very irresponsible and selfish to me. How can someone go and offer a gift to God and leave a 70 year old man in the state that this man is in? This is not Christian.
 
strawberryjam…going off topic but I think this is important in discussing Catholicism. The church’s teachings are that of Christ’s. If you have two coats, give one to your neighbor in need. In this teaching we see that excess wealth is undesirable. So while we teach prudent giving, we also teach that the accumulation of wealth is not the goal for our lives.This is of course counter cultural.

You see this teaching in Pope Benedict’s fairly recent encyclical Caritas in Veritate. Where he calls the extreme excess wealth of individuals and corporations in the west a sin. He does so while comparing this to the dire need of those who live without food, clean water, shelter, or safety.

When comparing to Mormonism, you’ll find that excess wealth is viewed as being a blessing from God. A counter to their teachings on tithing is that if you are a righteous person, wealth is one of your possible rewards. Sometimes you’ll hear Catholics call this type of belief the “gospel of health and wealth”. (It is also taught by some Evangelical churches.)
 
Abba: she is a believing Mormon which means she believes that paying tithing will get her lined up for God to help her financially. So I see a couple of things going on here. 1) the help from your friend is viewed as a blessing she needed and is a direct result of paying tithing 2) in order to continue receiving these types of blessings (not necessarily from your friend) she needs to pay tithing first.

It is also true that the LDS church will encourage people to find help/assistance from other places first. Friends and families.
 
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